DBMA Martial Arts Forum > Martial Arts Topics
Has anyone ever seen a real Kali fight?
Rodger:
A cultural note:
Kaliskis, Kalibangan, Kalinog, Kalipay, Kalinaw, Kaligo, Kaliwat, Kalimot, etc. etc.
Those are just a few words in Tagalog, Bisaya, and Ilongo that have Kali as the first two syllables. Ka- is a common prefix in Filipino languages.
SUNHELMET:
Just an addition to the 'kali' sounding words.
On an ancient tombstone in Bud Agad, there is an inscription written in Arabic that reads, "KALIMAH" which means "Profession of the Faith" page 206 MUSLIMS IN THE PHILIPPINES.
--Rafael--
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Crafty_Dog:
Woof Rodger:
Please forgive me but I have zero interest in investing more of my time with Guro Inosanto with this.
My original post (please feel free to go back and find it and the surrounding posts as well) merely stated my understanding of where Guro Inosanto got his use of the term-- that it included Manong John LaCoste. Manong LaCoste was a widely travelled man who lived until he was murdered in 1973 at the age of 89. Figure out for yourself when he was born and contemplate how much language has changed since his youth in the various languages that he encountered in his travels and how little record there is of them during these years. I am, ahem, only 52 :shock: and I note that the terms of my youth have come and gone in a far more recorded time (our "revoultion" was televised after all) --and its groovy.
I appreciate that for those who require definitive provable answers that this lack of certainty can be frustrating, but well, life can be like that.
If you ever meet Guro I. and wish to use your time with him discussing this further, then by all means be my guest.
As for me, I'm out. We use "Kali in America" and we do not do "propaganda".
Have a nice day.
Woof,
Crafty Dog
SUNHELMET:
In the Sultanate of Sulu, the term KALI exists, it means the same as the chief Qadi and he is called the TUAN KALI.
The title is given by the Sultan who is held as the highest rank over all others due to his placement in their culture and religion. The Sultan was given this right upon the old agreement between the first Sultan and the ancient Moros.
So the word KALI exists in the islands. It means, "ecclesiastical official" from the writings by Cesar Adib Majul.
--Rafael--
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Robin Padilla:
Rodger,
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"1. Kalirongan is used in Luzon, I still have not met anyone who uses Kaliradman, although this is said to be Bisaya (maybe it is still used, maybe not). But, can you tell us where 'Kali-Kali' or 'pagKaliKali' is used? ('pag' in Tagalog and Bisaya is the prefix for verbs)"
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One of my previous posts in this thread describes which indigineous tribe uses 'Kali-Kali' and 'pagkalikali'.
I got these information from 'Secrets of Arnis'. Like Lacoste, Edgar Sulite had travelled throughout the islands and learned from many people. Among his travels he learned that Kali is the mother art and published it in his book.
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"Leo Giron wouldn't categorize his art as a mere sport. "
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Who in FMA wants to categorize their art as sport? Kali, the mother art, and Arnis and Eskrima, her bastard Spanish children are all combative. However as time passed some of them became dance or sport.
I watched a dogbrothers movie and Leo Giron specifically expresses his interest in turning the art into a sport.
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"3. Do these words carry any propaganda element at all, like the Kali of America?"
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In Arnis Eskrima and Kali history, there is always propaganda. Propaganda to promote Christianity, to promote the Spanish Victory over Soliman in Luzon, Propaganda that my kung fu is better than your kung fu because we have adopted judo throws into our system etc.
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"Eskrima was taken from the Spanish esgrima, which just means to fence (not fence with sticks). To say, "non-bladed art" is again wrong since in WWII the people who used 'Eskrima' used blades. If you train with those who use Eskrima and Arnis in the Philippines, you'd realize that they still do use blades, either long or short. "
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Also remember that the Spanish outlawed bladed arts among the indios. So the locals, wanting to please the Spanish practiced their art with sticks and it was renamed Eskrima for fencing, or arnes based on the armor.
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