Dog Brothers Public Forum
DBMA Martial Arts Forum => Martial Arts Topics => Topic started by: Crafty_Dog on August 14, 2007, 07:26:01 AM
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Woof All:
As those of you who have seen our "Grandfather's Speak 2: Maestro Sonny Umpad" know, I am very impressed with the system. This thread is to offer Maestro Sonny's students to share with us about the system.
First question: If I have it correctly, one of the sub-systems is the Moro system, which has a lot of high-level low footwork. How did this material come to Maestro Sonny and what can you tell us about it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELWEjSFWGRA
TIA,
CD
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Another video...
Sonny Umpad's Corto-Kadena System Kali-Eskrima : The Largo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtSnmvzFWWs
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Thank you Guro Crafty for giving the opportunity to talk about Maestro Sonny's art. The 1st anniversary of his passing will be on Friday the 24th so the Umpad Tribe will be getting together to remember him by playing, flowing and keeping his art alive and strong.
I have passed on the link to this thread to Guro Jay Pugao who put these 2 video clips together. Also to Guro Chris Suboreau, one of the Maestro's earliest students who is in the process of writing an article about Sonny and the Corto Kadena system. Your question is one he addresses, and as he has more knowledge of this than I , I will let him answer, or perhaps I can post the relevent section of his article.
Also a request. Could we change the spelling of the thread to Corto-Kadena ? This is how Sonny spelled it.
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Done.
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Very Cool Vids! I love the flowing nature of the system.
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I got the go ahead from Guro Chris to post a little of his article about the Moro part of Sonny's system. I believe Guro Jay and others have more to add, but here is what he wrote:
" Sonny’s Moro footwork is the subject of some confusion. Sonny told us it was based on the “Sayow Moro-Moro”, which is a classical Filipino dance. Others have tried to link the movements to the “Comedia”, or stage play of the same name. Some claim it is related to the “Moro-Moro” style Eskrima of Grand Master Telesporo Subing Subing. Sonny never met the master, although he expressed interest in this art. Some say these movements are called “linambay”, or “crab”, because of the proximity of the player’s body to the ground.
Sonny’s Moro footwork basically consists of toes pointing out, movements started high and ending low. Also, it refers to the moving along in a low crouch in order to get under an opponent’s blows. The Moro crouch adds tremendous power and sweep to downward blows. When the player finally uncoils upward from the crouch, he is able to put his entire body behind the blow. The low crouching positions of the Moro footwork also allows the practitioner to disappear during combat by suddenly dropping out of the line of sight. This tactic can create openings and opportunities during a conflict.
In addition to power, this footwork allows one to make a smaller target of oneself. Once, while working nightclub security, I was encircled by rowdy customers. When charged, I hit the closest, dropped into a Moro, and affected my escape. I came up behind the brawlers, and my backups and I were able to overcome the problem."
Hopefully the whole of Guro Chris's article will be published soon. We have been working on the photographs these past couple of weeks.
More to follow....
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Sounds very similar to "naga" step patterns and stances prolific in pecak silat systems.
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Hat tip to Terry Crutcher of the DBMAA for his post on our forum for the following:
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The computer I am on at the moment does not allow me to see the following, but I suspect it will be of interest here:
http://inosanto.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=325&Itemid=64
Tinikling:
http://www.likha.org/galleries/tinikling.asp
Fonzie for President
The dance from the Lanao province uses twelve bamboo poles arranged in a double criss-cross fashion. While dancing, the Princess carries two jeweled fans called, "apir" which she moves in a stylized fashion. ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R_EWyqu_ck
In the Muslim area in the Philippines the dance is usually performed by the lady-in-waiting to the daughter of the Sultan ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlitlXM588&mode=related&search=
The ordabis and sword and shield movement are intresting in this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxxNT7BsRLg&NR
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I got the go ahead from Guro Chris to post a little of his article about the Moro part of Sonny's system. I believe Guro Jay and others have more to add, but here is what he wrote:
" Sonny’s Moro footwork is the subject of some confusion. Sonny told us it was based on the “Sayow Moro-Moro”, which is a classical Filipino dance. Others have tried to link the movements to the “Comedia”, or stage play of the same name. Some claim it is related to the “Moro-Moro” style Eskrima of Grand Master Telesporo Subing Subing. Sonny never met the master, although he expressed interest in this art. Some say these movements are called “kalimbay”, or “crab”, because of the proximity of the player’s body to the ground.
Sonny’s Moro footwork basically consists of toes pointing out, movements started high and ending low. Also, it refers to the moving along in a low crouch in order to get under an opponent’s blows. The Moro crouch adds tremendous power and sweep to downward blows. When the player finally uncoils upward from the crouch, he is able to put his entire body behind the blow. The low crouching positions of the Moro footwork also allows the practitioner to disappear during combat by suddenly dropping out of the line of sight. This tactic can create openings and opportunities during a conflict.
In addition to power, this footwork allows one to make a smaller target of oneself. Once, while working nightclub security, I was encircled by rowdy customers. When charged, I hit the closest, dropped into a Moro, and affected my escape. I came up behind the brawlers, and my backups and I were able to overcome the problem."
Hopefully the whole of Guro Chris's article will be published soon. We have been working on the photographs these past couple of weeks.
More to follow....
Maija is correct... let me add:
I guess a lot of us got the wrong impression that this footwork is derived from the Moros of Mindanao. The answer is a big NO. The correct term for this footwork would be Moro-moro. The Moro-moro system was developed in southwest Cebu and one of its major exponents the earliest pioneers of eskrima in the U.S. - the late Telesporo Subing-Subing of Balamban a townmate of the early migrant workers like Jack Santos, Lucky Lucaylucay, Juanito Lacoste and Felix Goc-ong. NOW WHERE DID THE TERM Moro-moro originate? Moro-moro is also called linambay (from the root word lambay or CRAB, linambay means crab-like) in Cebu, but the former is the more popular term amongst Cebuano which is actually a Komedya or a stage play, a colorful pageantry depicting the Spaniards conquest of the Mohammedan Moors of Southern Spain in the 15th century. Eskrima is part and parcel of the Moro-moro play. It is also called linambay because of the actor warriors movement in the mock battle which mimic the low mounted walk of the crabs, AND YES just like Sonny Umpad's footwork. The Moro-moro or Linambay plays faded from the scene after World War II and was replaced by the Zarzuela which had more contemporary themes. The last Moro-moro play I saw was in the early sixties during the town fiesta of Sonny's hometown in Bogo City
and to quote Christine Godinez-Ortega in her article on this link:
http://www.ncca.gov.ph/about_cultarts/articles.php?artcl_Id=103
Many stories abound about the origins of the San Miguel Comedya and many descendants of claimants to the authorship of the original script. But there are no extant documents to set the records straight.
The San Miguel Comedya was reportedly first staged around 1900 in Iligan, 263 years after the first moro-moro was believed to have been staged in Manila 1637 to celebrate the defeat of Sultan Kudarat by Spanish conquistadores led by Hurtado de Corcuera.
For 300 years of Spanish colonization, the Spaniards saw the powerful influence of theater proselytizing or propagating Christianity.
and here's more from that article, mentioning eskrima in the plays:
The surprise elements in the play were the intermission number consisting of the "eskrima," a part of the Sinulog, and the "diyandi," an Iligan creative dance which is really a pact between Maranaos and Higaunons in their homage to San Miguel. The "eskrima" and the "diyandi" are not part of the comedya.
One can be distressed no end if one brings in his pre-conceived notion of theater that is Western or Hollywoodish. Indeed, appreciation of the comedya has to be taken in the context of what is and its original purpose. This, of course, needs to be explained to the present generation who is constantly shaped by the aesthetics of MTV.
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Wow, thanks for the enlightenment.
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Forgot to mention last Friday was the anniversary of Maestro Sonny Umpad's passing.
I just wanted to say thanks to Eddy and Maia for sharing more of Sonny's art with Peregrine and I.
Thanks to those who continue to carry on his art and I hope to meet more of Sonny's students as well.
Aloha and a hui ho...
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Yes, thank you very much Maia and Eddy. Wish we could've had more training time together.
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Thanks Peregrine and Robert. It was cool to play and flow with you guys and fun to hang out at the Gathering. Remember next time you make it to the mainland you need to spend some time with us here in the Bay Area.....
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Sweet little montage / tribute to Sonny Umpad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_ddUsPSeY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_ddUsPSeY)
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Hey Folks,
I just put up some classic video of Maestro Umpad on visayaneskrima.com , check it out!
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Link is not working for me , , , :cry:
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CD, try this one.
http://www.visayaneskrima.com/ (http://www.visayaneskrima.com/)
It worked for me.
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Thank you.
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FYI there are a couple new clips up of Sonny training students on the "video clips of interest" thread, posted today.
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Well, i finally dragged my ass into the 21st century and posted on Youtube :-D. I have not learned as yet how to edit .... working on that, so here instead is about 10 minutes of raw footage of a workout at Sonny's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CY00mHQI-g
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FYI
There is a new article about Maestro Sonny Umpad in the Jan 2009 edition of Inside KungFu, the one just out on the news stands.
It was written by Guros Chris Suboreau and Steve Magness.
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The article can be found in Inside Kung Fu, Jan 09 issue, "The Visayan Eskrima of Sonny Umpad". It is this months issue.
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i don't usually purchase the inside kung-fu these days, but bought this one because of the Sonny Umpad article.
Francisco
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ditto Sisco T.
most of the mags these days are really ads... or excerpts of books which they have published or will publish. but i bought this issue because of Sonny Umpad.
i recall ages ago Jeff Finder posting on ED about Sonny Umpad's 'straight blast with sticks'
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Does anyone know if there are Corto-Kadena classes in San Francisco? I'll be there for a few days, and would like to train, if possible, or at least observe a class if they don't want a newbie slowing things down. I went to the visayaneskrima.com website, but they didn't have any school locations listed, and I got no reply when I emailed for info.
Thanks.
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Hi Karunamama,
Sorry you got no reply from the website ... the guy who generally deals with that has been away.
Nothing in San Francisco per se, but right over the bridge in Oakland there is a Thursday evening class. I also teach privately if you are interested - not sure what the other guys' schedules are right now. You can pm me or go to: swordandcircle.blogspot.com for more details.
Thanks for your interest,
Maija.
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Just posted a new video clip of Sonny. I think this one shows quite nicely his ability to time and break rhythm whilst flow training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56vb8wb3xc
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Just posted a new video clip of Sonny. I think this one shows quite nicely his ability to time and break rhythm whilst flow training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H56vb8wb3xc
woof majia:
thank you for sharing... so good to see the manongs move...inspires us young ones.
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New video clip of Sonny - Pangamut and Sikaran:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9cUwSRL2M
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Wow. Fascinating stuff. I love how effortlessly he takes his partner's balance.
Did you ever work any of the moves in isolation on a heavy bag or other target to practise power generation, or were they just trained in the context of the flow?
Karen
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simply awesome. thank you for sharing!
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Karunamama -
Sonny was not a large man (I probably outweighed him by 40lbs!) So his power came from his impeccable timing and awesome explosivity - his '0 to 60' was very fast and he could drop his whole body weight into a knee, elbow, leg sweep, whatever was his weapon of choice.
You can practice on a low pendulum, like on Jay's 'Pendulum Ball' video, or on a static target ...but it takes alot of practice to get good, and not telegraph .... :-D
Stickgrappler - Glad you enjoyed the vid 8-)
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I am very impressed with with the movements as always, but am also very pleased to see everyone smiling and laughing. It is easy to forget that fun is an important aspect in our training! He referred to this sort of thing as "playing" yes? I think this is a very good fit, and a most excellent training tool!
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Hi Jonobos,
Yeah the state of play is a very natural place to learn new skills - just look at the animal kingdom. It's not the only way to train of course, but a fast way to internalize movement, especially with a partner. :-D
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Just FYI.
We've been working on a new website - just up. Hoping to add new content every month. http://visayaneskrima.org/
Thanks :-)
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Just FYI.
We've been working on a new website - just up. Hoping to add new content every month. http://visayaneskrima.org/
Thanks :-)
woof majia,
site looks awesome, way better than my site. i will add a link to my site when i get a chance to sort out my home comp problems.
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Woof all:
Reread the great Jan 2009 IKF article on Maestro Umpad yesterday, great overview of the system. A cool quote from memory:
"The stick is the husband and the knife is the wife."
~sg
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http://www.amazon.com/dp/1583945024/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp_6LhOqb1T6N9DP
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"You can always tell someone who has no roots, because he guards the leaves. But the true student has roots and a trunk, so he is always willing to give away leaves freely."
~Maestro Sonny Umpad
Sonny Umpad's Eskrima: The Life and Teachings of a Filipino Martial Arts Master
By George M. Yore
pg 36
Blue Snake Books
Bekeley, California
Copyright 2012
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXYvm3TEyI
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLXYvm3TEyI
Very nice.
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I love watching Maija at play.
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http://wearyourvoicemag.com/inside-the-mind-of-a-warrior-oakland/
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From our good friend Maija Soderholm
https://www.createspace.com/5154898
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_19?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+liar+the+cheat+and+the+thief+deception+and+the+art+of+sword+play&sprefix=The+liar%2C+the+cheat%2Cstripbooks%2C293