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DBMA Martial Arts Forum => Martial Arts Topics => Topic started by: Crafty_Dog on October 26, 2007, 09:41:58 AM

Title: The Unorganized Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 26, 2007, 09:41:58 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1a9bce320.html


Dallas police: Man in wheelchair disarms and kills invader


09:18 AM CDT on Friday, October 26, 2007


From WFAA-TV Staff Reports

We open this thread with a real humdinger:
==========================================

3500 East Overton Road
Dallas police said a disabled man shot and killed a person who broke into his apartment early Friday morning.
Police said the man was able to get out of his wheelchair, struggle with the invader, take his gun away and shoot him.

The events at the Village Oaks Apartments in the 3500 block of East Overton Road were reported to police at 2:49 a.m.

The intruder was taken to Baylor University Medical Center in Dallas where he died.

The disabled man was not immediately identified by police, but he appeared to be in his mid-50s.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Dog Pound on October 26, 2007, 03:44:32 PM
Between the fox running for his dinner and the rabbit running for his life ... the rabbit often wins - even when the rabbit is in a wheel chair.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 19, 2007, 09:36:07 PM
73 year old security guard disarms gun and drives off two robbers

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=121_1195518280

Was it the Bible grandma was carrying or the .32?  Or Both?  Only God knows for sure , , ,

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ccc_1181134620

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 03, 2007, 07:16:54 PM
Important legal issues presented in this story:

AP Texas News
Nov. 15, 2007, 11:38AM
Elderly man shoots two suspected burglars at neighbor's home
© 2007 The Associated Press

PASADENA, Texas — A grand jury will decide if an elderly man who shot and killed two men he believed were robbing his neighbor's home acted within the limits of the state's self-defense laws.

The man, who is in his 70s, shot the two suspected burglars Wednesday afternoon in a quiet subdivision of the city southeast of Houston. He confronted the men as they were leaving through a gate leading to the front yard of his neighbor's home.

Just before the shootings, the man called 911 to say that he heard glass breaking and saw two men entering the home through a window, Pasadena police said.
"The man told the dispatcher: "I'm getting my gun and going to stop them. The dispatcher said, 'No, stay inside the house; officers are on the way.'," said police spokesman Vance Mitchell. "Then you hear him rack the shotgun. The next sound the dispatcher heard was a boom. Then there was silence for a couple of seconds and then another boom."

The telephone line then went dead, but the man called police again and told a dispatcher what he had done. He said he confronted the suspected burglars and asked them to stop, but they did not.
The man then fired twice, striking one of the suspected burglars in the chest, and the other on the side. The shooter's name was not released.

When police arrived, they found one dead man across the street, and the other two houses behind a bank of mailboxes in the Village Grove East subdivision.  The suspects' names were not released, but police said they had documentation from Puerto Rico, Colombia and the Dominican Republic.

Under state law, Texans are allowed to defend themselves with deadly force to protect their own property. The person using deadly force must believe there is no other way to protect their belongings.  Defense attorney Tommy LaFon, a former Harris County prosecutor, said the gunman may be on safe legal ground if the neighbor whose home was burglarized tells police he asked the man to watch his property.  "If the homeowner comes out and says, 'My neighbor had a greater right of possession than the people trying to break in,' that could put him (the gunman) in an ownership role," LaFon said.

According to the state penal code, a person can use force or deadly force to defend someone else's property if he reasonably believes he has a legal duty to do so or the property owner had requested his protection.
__________________
Here is the actual 911 call:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f3d_1195171937
===================================
Texas Penal Code
§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property;
(2) the actor reasonably believes that: (A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.


§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; 


and


Quote:
Sec. 83.001. CIVIL IMMUNITY A defendant who uses force or deadly force that is justified under Chapter 9, Penal Code, is immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results from the defendant's use of force or deadly force, as applicable. 
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 03, 2007, 07:32:22 PM
Long, but it has the 911 transcript

-------------

(CBS) The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this ----."

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

"I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don’t go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

"I don’t want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

"No, I don’t want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

"I can’t see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn’t know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.
Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."
On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

Then Horn is back on the phone:
"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the --- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."

Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

Horn: "No, no, no."

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

Yelling is heard.

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."
Two days later, Horn released a statement through an attorney.

“The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life," it said. "My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.”

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30. Official records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses.

The men were reportedly shot at a distance of less than 15 feet.

A woman who lives nearby who asked not to be identified told CBS News affiliate KHOU correspondent Rucks Russell that she always saw Horn as a grandfather figure. "He is the guardian of the neighborhood," she said. "He takes care of all our kids. If we ever need anything, we call him.”

But according to Tom Lambright, Horn’s attorney and a friend for more than four decades, he’s the one in need now. “He just needs everyone to know he’s not a villain, he’s not a bad guy,” Lambright said.

He went on to say that Horn voluntarily gave an extensive video statement to police immediately following the shooting.

Horn was not taken into custody after the shooting. A Harris County grand jury will decide if charges are to be filed.

Lambright says Horn acted in complete and total self defense and has nothing to hide.

Local opinion has been passionate on both sides of the shooting.

One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

Another letter writer praised Horn, saying, "Where does the line form to pin a medal on Joe Horn? I want to get in line." Another wrote, "Let's get rid of the police force and just hire Joe Horn!"

Support for Horn was also running about 2-1 in an online survey of readers on the KHOU Web site.

The incident may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 14, 2007, 09:14:21 AM
On an airplane, citizens restrain man shouting "Allah Akbar" and "Shoot me!"

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/13/video-meltdown-on-an-alleged-air-canada-flight/
Title: CCW Self-Defense in Memphis, TN
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 09, 2008, 02:51:40 PM
With more people carrying guns, self-defense killings on increase

By Christopher Conley
Saturday, January 5, 2008

The number of justifiable homicides in Memphis jumped from 11 in 2006 to 32 in 2007.
No one is sure why, but one man has a theory.
"The thugs have started running into people who can protect themselves," said Tom Givens, owner and instructor at the firearms training school RangeMaster, 2611 S. Mendenhall in Memphis.
Police detectives and prosecutors don't think it's that simple, and they acknowledge the spike could be a one-time occurrence.
"It's hard to put your finger on it," said police Lt. Joseph Scott. "There are more handgun carry permits, there is more education, but you can't say that's the reason."
More people are getting carry permits and more people know their rights. As many as 35,000 people in Shelby County have carry permits, which means they have had some training on the laws governing self-defense.
The education, Givens says, is "trickling down" to friends and family members.
There were 19 fewer criminal homicides in 2007 compared to 2006. There were fewer gang killings as well, which are less likely to be viewed as justified, and there were fewer beating deaths, which, again, are rarely justifiable.
But there were more deadly shootings by law enforcement officers last year -- four by Memphis police, including one by an officer assigned to a federal fugitive task force. There was also one by a Shelby County sheriff's deputy and one by a University of Tennessee officer. All were found to be what internal affairs investigators term "good shoots."
Tennessee law gives citizens the right to defend themselves if they have a reasonable and imminent fear of harm from a carjacker, rapist, burglar or other violent assailant. They can also employ deadly force to protect another person.
And while a diminishing number of states require citizens to try to avoid a confrontation before using deadly force, Tennessee does not have such a "retreat law."
When someone claims self-defense, it is the burden of the prosecutors to refute that claim. Tie goes to the shooter.
"The state has to prove it was not justified. ... We have the burden of proof," said Asst. Dist. Atty. Tom Henderson, a member of the review team that determines whether killings are justified.
Even if the shooting is found to be justified, the shooter often suffers trauma. Even if the shooter is a police officer.
Henderson has seen one trend: "The more the public is afraid of crime, the less concerned they are with criminals being shot." But he can't say that has affected the totals for justifiable homicides.
When someone claims self-defense, detectives often have to dig to determine what happened.
They look at the forensic evidence to see if it matches up with the shooter's story. What does the gunshot look like? Is it at the right angle, the right distance? Did anyone see a gun?
Recently, a killing that looked like a case of a citizen defending himself and his girlfriend from a burglar had an odd twist.
Investigators said Antionita Clay, 31, called boyfriend Christopher Jones and told him someone had broken into her home and might still be there.
Jones went to Clay's Camelot Lane apartment and confronted Asa Marmon, 22, who had a stun gun. When Marmon lunged at Jones, Jones shot him.
Clay filed a burglary report and denied knowing Marmon, but investigators quickly learned that Clay and Marmon were involved sexually.
Clay told police she knew Jones had a handgun and she wanted Jones to scare Marmon.
Jones told police he thought he was confronting a burglar or rapist based on what Clay told him. Prosecutors decided Jones was justified in killing Marmon, but they still charged Clay on Dec. 28 with reckless homicide.
- Chris Conley: 529-2595
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 24, 2008, 10:43:44 AM
Jeanne Assam tells of her gunfight

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Colorado-Security-Officer-Recalls-Encounter-With-Church-Gunman/1$40322
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 28, 2008, 08:03:25 AM
Police: Teen makes mistake of trying to rob former U.S. Marine

Bay City News Service
Article Launched: 03/27/2008 10:39:20 AM PDT

SANTA ROSA - A boy in his mid-teens learned Wednesday afternoon that it is not a good idea to try to rob a former U.S. Marine at knifepoint, even if the former Marine is 84 years old, police said today. Santa Rosa police Sgt. Steve Bair said that's what happened around 2 p.m. in the 1600 block of Fourth Street. The elderly man was walking with a grocery bag in each arm when the boy approached him with a large knife, Bair said.
The boy said, "Old man, give me your wallet or I'll cut you," Bair said. The man told the boy he was a former Marine who fought in three wars and had been threatened with knives and bayonets, Bair said.
The man then put his bags on the ground and told the boy that if he stepped closer he would be sorry. When the boy stepped closer, the man kicked him in the groin, knocking him to the sidewalk, Bair said. The ex-Marine picked up his grocery bags and walked home, leaving the boy doubled over, Bair said.
The man reported the attempted robbery to police 45 minutes later.
Bair said the teen is described only as 15 or 16 years old. Anyone with information is asked to call the Police Department.
Title: Man stops knife attack, saves victim
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 05, 2008, 12:15:07 AM

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pb...EWS01/80402088

Man who stopped knife fight on I-40 was ‘blessing from above’

Ex-Marine praised for providing first aid


by John Boyle
published April 3, 2008 12:15 am

SWANNANOA – Police do not recommend doing what Will Gardner did Tuesday afternoon, but they do acknowledge that he probably saved a life.
The 56-year-old intervened in a brawl just off Interstate 40, kicking a knife out of the hand of one man and then separating the fighters. But Gardner, an ex-Marine who saw combat in Vietnam, says he did what most people would do in that situation — the right thing.

“If more people would get involved, less people would get hurt,” said Gardner, an electrical engineer by training. “It’s their responsibility.”
The man who sustained three knife wounds, Candler resident Robby Ammons, 37, called Gardner’s actions “a blessing from above.”
“Will was instrumental in stopping the bleeding in my arm, in my side, in my abdomen,” Ammons said. “He kept me alert, kept me awake. I was blinking in and out. Thank God for him, I’ll tell you that.”
Ammons was treated at Mission Hospitals Tuesday. He was back home Wednesday.
No charges yet

The fight started in a clearing just off exit 59 in Swannanoa around 4:30 p.m.
The two men met for “a pre-arranged child swap where one individual was giving custody to another individual,” Buncombe County Sheriff’s Lt. Ross Dillingham said Tuesday.
Ammons said he confronted the man about comments made about his wife, and the argument quickly escalated into a fight.
Contacted for this story, the other man declined to comment.
Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office Lt. Ross Dillingham said detectives are still investigating the case and will present their evidence to the district attorney, who will then decide what charges, if any, may be appropriate.
“Usually, when there’s an assault, we make charges immediately,” Dillingham said. “But whenever there’s the possibility of self-defense, we gather the information, present the case and let the DA make the final determination.” He would not reveal any other information about the incident, including the name of the other man involved in the fight.
Dillingham said that police do not encourage citizens to emulate Gardner’s actions.
“I would never recommend anyone putting themselves in harm’s way, which is exactly what Mr. Gardner did — which is very admirable in this situation,” Dillingham said. “He played a large part in saving the life of the man who was stabbed by using the tourniquet and the appropriate medical techniques.”
Dillingham said passersby should call police or emergency responders who are trained to handle such situations.
‘Just pumping blood’

Gardner, who is well known locally as the owner of White Dog Printing from 1991-2004 and the owner of the Black Mountain Folk Music Festival from 1992-1997, says plain instinct drove his decision to stop and help as he was on his way to his Swannanoa home. When he pulled up, he could see the man swinging a knife at Ammons.
He said other motorists had stopped, but no one was approaching the men.
“So I just walked over and when I saw the knife, I booted it,” Gardner said. “I just booted the knife because I was afraid of getting stabbed.”
He got the men separated and then started applying pressure to Ammons’ wounds. The ex-Marine has a theory as to why the men remained apart.
“I have two very, very large German shepherds,” Gardner said. “The window was down, and I think both the guys thought they were going to get bit.”
Gardner used his own undershirt to apply pressure on Ammons’ back wound and applied pressure to the abdominal wound. He also fashioned a tourniquet from one of his German shepherd’s leashes to stop the bleeding in Ammons’ arm.
“It was just pumping blood,” Gardner said.
‘Being odd’

At this point, Rudi Sommer, the operations director at MANNA Foodbank, had exited the interstate to pick his kids up from school. He jumped out and helped Gardner stanch the bleeding.

“I was impressed with Will’s handling of the situation,” Sommer said. “Time really seems to drag on when you’re waiting for an ambulance.”
Gardner elevated Ammons’ legs, and he kept telling him jokes to keep him alert. At one point, Gardner said he told Ammons he was “cut like the Mississippi River — wide, deep and long.”

“The idea was to keep him from bleeding to death before the rescue squad got there,” Gardner said, adding that he admires Sommer for jumping in to help. “It wasn’t rocket science.”

While he eschews the “hero” tag — he says his knees were knocking the rest of the night after the encounter — Gardner does allow that he’s something of an eccentric.

“Quite frankly, being odd is not an easy thing; it’s not a comfortable thing,” Gardner said. “On the other hand, if being odd allows me to do what I did, I’ll guess I’ll be odd.”

Contact John Boyle at 828-232-5847, via e-mail at jboyle@CITIZEN-TIMES.com
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Juan on April 05, 2008, 11:50:14 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23923851/

12-year-old protects mom, fatally stabs attacker
Boy: 'I told God that I had stabbed him because he was killing my mother'
 
updated 6:52 p.m. ET, Wed., April. 2, 2008
HYATTSVILLE, Md. - A 12-year-old boy fatally slashed a man who was attacking his mother at the boarding house where they lived, authorities said.

Salomon Noubissie, 64, died at a hospital after he was slashed across the neck Monday night in the home in the Landover area.

Cpl. Diane Richardson, a spokeswoman for Prince George's County police, said Wednesday that authorities hadn't decided whether the boy would be charged with anything. They were reviewing the case with the state's attorney's office.

The boy said he had been playing a video game Monday night when he heard his mother, Cheryl Stamp, scream. He found her on the kitchen floor, straddled by a fellow resident who was choking her.

"I kept saying, 'Stop! Stop! Stop!'" the boy told The Washington Post, which published his account without giving his name. "But he just ignored me. He didn't stop. He just kept hurting her."

The boy said he took a knife and swung at the man. Police say they found Noubissie with a knife wound to the upper body.

Stamp said she didn't fully realize at first what her son had done. "He didn't say anything," she said. "But I knew when I looked in his eyes. I said, 'Oh, Lord.' "

Rarely is a 12-year-old implicated in a homicide, and even less often does a child that age kill someone to protect his mother.

"In Maryland, there can be a legitimate defense of third parties in the event of a violent attack," State's Attorney Glenn F. Ivey told the newspaper. "That is a possibility in this case."

'He protected me'
Stamp said she and Noubissie, a Cameroonian immigrant, had moved into the boarding house within days of each other three months ago and had become friends. Stamp said Noubissie had told her he was studying to be a psychiatrist.

But on Monday night, she said, he was acting differently. He started to yell at her and grab her hair.

"He threw me down and started choking me. I think that's when my son came in. ... He protected me," she said.

Noubissie was combative with officers when they arrived, even as he was bleeding heavily, she said.

The boy said he was not happy with what happened but felt he had no choice.

"I told God that I had stabbed him because he was killing my mother. I know he understands, and I think he will keep us safe now."

Title: Amazing blind man
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 25, 2008, 08:51:45 AM
By Vic Ryckaert
vic.ryckaert@indystar.com

A blind homeowner used the wrestling skills he learned more than 30 years ago to overpower an intruder and hold the man at knifepoint until police arrived this morning.

“I just kind of panicked and just kind of went crazy after that,” Allan Kieta said. “I’ve wrestled all my life. My dad’s a Marine; he taught me some stuff. You’re thinking in your head all this survival stuff.”

An Indianapolis police official called it one of the most incredible tales of citizen self-defense that he’s heard in years.

“It’s pretty remarkable for anyone that’s blind to be able to defend themselves, let alone make an apprehension,” Lt. Jeff Duhamell said. “To be able to grab this guy and hold him down until police got there is pretty remarkable.”

Kieta is typically at work on Mondays but had taken the day off from his job with the federal government. So he was home when a man entered his Eastside residence in the 3100 block of Richardt Avenue about 9 a.m.

“We have a little poodle-like dog. It was barking and barking,” Kieta said. “I opened the door and just ran into him.”

Kieta, 49, who is legally blind, said he was the Kentucky high school wrestling champ for the 145-pound division in 1976. He used his skills and other self-defense tactics learned from his father to subdue the intruder.

“I had him pinned in the laundry room and just kept pummeling,” Kieta said, describing the pounding he gave the 25-year-old arrested by police.

Kieta punched, kicked and grappled until the suspect became disoriented. Kieta said he grabbed him by the belt and dragged him into the kitchen. Kieta then found a kitchen knife and held it at the man’s throat.

Kieta fumbled to dial 911 with his other hand.

“Being visually impaired, I couldn’t get the buttons because I was using my left hand,” he said. “It took me about 20 tries.”

Police arrived minutes after dispatchers received the call at 9:47 a.m.

Alvaro Castro, 25, was arrested on an initial charge of residential entry, Sgt. Matthew Mount said. Police say Castro denied trying to burglarize the home. He said he was the ex-boyfriend of Kieta’s 18-year-old daughter and said he was trying to visit her when he ran into her father, Mount said.

Kieta said Castro also told him he was looking for his cat.

“I go, ’Your cat? You’re in my house!”’ Kieta recalled.

Castro was held at Wishard Memorial Hospital's secure detention facility, then transferred to the Marion County Jail late Monday night.

Kieta said he suffered swollen hands and a sore back, but no serious injuries.

“When my wife was cleaning the blood off, she said ‘I think it’s all his,’.” Kieta said.
The Associated Press contributed to this story.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Jonobos on April 25, 2008, 03:47:31 PM
Respect your elders or else!    :-P
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: SB_Mig on April 28, 2008, 10:37:28 AM
In light of many of the discussions on this forum, I thought I'd post this video:

WARNING! FAIRLY GRAPHIC

http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1199672787/Man_in_Holland_Brutally_Stabs_his_Girlfriend_Repeatedly

The lack of response by bystanders (ahem, cameraman) is disturbing. I also find it interesting that although the assailant is obviously intending to kill his victim, the bystanders that do come to her aid are surprisingly "gentle" with him.

Crafty, if you think this warrants its own thread/discussion, I will be happy to move it.

SB_Mig
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 28, 2008, 11:21:43 AM
Woof SB:

I know we discussed this one on the DBMA Assn forum, and IIRC on the Spanish Language forum, but if we haven't discussed it on this one here, it certainly deserves it.  Would you please begin a thread titled
"Case Study:  Bystanders hesitate in Holland (or whatever name you want")"?  Thank you.

CD
Title: TV Show
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 04, 2008, 07:42:00 PM
New Reality Show

Now Picked up By a Major Network

A new Reality Show , featuring the Martial Arts is gearing up and looking for your
story. Have you ever been attacked , stalked, struck or mugged and were you able
 to fight back using your martial arts training  ?  .

Like nothing you have seen before . This show will be based on experts and novices
alike , be part of a all empowering show , which will leave the audience smarter,
more prepared and wiser to the world we live in today.

Instructors we are looking for WOMEN  ( for our first show ) that have used thier
martial arts  in a attack.
1. Please send a small write up on the attack to our Email
2. Please note that person will have to be able to travel to Brooklyn NY During
the last weeks of May for 1 day , for filming.

The Producers : Fight Back Intelligently

Andrea Matzke &  Alan Goldberg

Cast so far : David Toma , Christine Bannon Rodriquez , Alan Goldberg, Demitrius
 Oak tree Edwards

Please Contact us at 4MartialArts@earthlink.net [mailto:4MartialArts@earthlink.net]

Or 718 856-8070
Title: Texas
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 11, 2008, 07:19:10 AM


SOURCE = http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....e2b80f8a.html

Victim speaks about donut shop robbery
04:22 PM CDT on Friday, May 9, 2008

David Schechter reports
May 9, 2008

Neighborliness has been redefined in a West Fort Worth neighborhood. Early this morning a robber invaded a local donut shop. Before he could get away a neighbor shot the intruder dead outside the Happy Donut Shop.

It’s a beloved neighborhood gathering spot owned by Chong Randle. Early this morning, when Randle was in the back she heard a loud noise up front. The robber broke through the glass and entered.

“He said, ‘I’m going to shoot you’. I said, ‘Go ahead and shoot. I’m going to heaven. Go ahead shooting. I just put my hands up and lay down,’” said Randle.

“He said I’m going to shoot you and you said go ahead and shoot me?” asked reporter David Schechter.

“You wanna shoot. Shoot. Because I’m going to heaven,” she added.

Randle says she gave him everything she had—about $30 in change. Instead of leaving, though, the robber kept demanding more. What that robber didn't know was that as the seconds ticked by Randle’s neighbor was on his way to help with a loaded shotgun. He shot and killed the intruder-- 45-year old Richard Lane.

“How do you feel about him? Are you thankful?” Schechter asked Randle.

“He shoot them because he’s doing the right thing,” she said.

Randle was lucky to get away with minor injuries. She says this is the second time this week Randle’s been robbed. She thinks it was the same person, both times.

“Not a very happy week for Happy Donuts,” Schechter asked.

“Still happy donuts. We didn’t do anything wrong,” she said.

The neighbor who shot the robber was not available for an interview today. He likely will not face any charges… though the case may be reviewed by a grand jury. But if any witnesses are needed, there was actually a police officer driving by just as the gun went off.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Hawke on May 17, 2008, 06:48:02 PM
Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-shoot18-2008may18,0,2906491.story

Quote
A rifleman angered by a custody dispute with his ex-girlfriend opened fire at a parish school festival in Granada Hills this morning, wounding the woman and two other fairgoers before being tackled by bystanders and arrested by an off-duty police officer, authorities said.

Glad to see people willing to do what is necessary to end the threat.
Title: Hero fired
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 23, 2008, 10:04:17 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356710,00.html


.
Gas Station Employee Fired for Fighting Off Robber

Tuesday, May 20, 2008
By Sara Bonisteel  KSTP.com

Mark Beverly

An act of bravery to defend a co-worker has cost a Minnesota gas-station attendant his job.
Mark Beverly, an overnight shift supervisor at a SuperAmerica in Roseville, Minn., was fired in March after he jumped on a masked robber who he believed was attacking a fellow employee.


SuperAmerica said he violated company policy when he came to his colleague's aid in the early morning of March 26. So instead of accolades, Beverly got the boot.


Adding insult to injury, Beverly — who is still looking for another job — has been denied unemployment benefits. He will appeal that decision on June 5.


The trouble began around 3 a.m. when Beverly was cleaning the bathroom and his female co-worker was behind the cash register. Beverly said he heard her scream, so he ran out and saw a robber wearing a blue-stocking cap jostling with her.


"It looked like he was hurting her, so I jumped on him," Beverly said. "I just tried to bang him on the counter a couple of times."


After a tussle, he said, the robber regained his footing and looked as if he was going to pull out a weapon. Beverly said the man told him, "Don't be a hero," before fleeing the store with about $15.
Beverly called police and reviewed security tapes with his managers before completing his shift. "Everything was fine," he said.


The next day, however, he was fired for violating company policy.


Marathon Petroleum Company, the owner of the SuperAmerica chain, said Beverly was told what to do in the company handbook — which advises employees to "cooperate: don't argue, resist or attack the robber" — and through a computer-based training program Beverly was required to complete when he was hired.


"He endangered himself and her, and that’s why we have the policy," said Linda Casey, a Marathon spokeswoman. "And we have enforced it with other employees, not just with him."

"I just thought it was wrong, that's all," said Beverly, who had worked at SuperAmerica for just over a year. "You're not really trained for a robbery, and that was the first robbery I have ever been in in my life."


Capt. Rick Mathwig of the Roseville Police Department said authorities advise people not to take action when faced with a robbery.


"When you start resisting at some way shape or form, the suspect who may not have intended on using the weapon that he or she came with may use it intentionally or unintentionally when faced with a conflict," he said.


Roseville police have listed the case as inactive as they have not been able to identify the robber. The only image of him is partial profile and his face is obscured by the stocking cap, Mathwig said.

The security tape did not show the female co-worker struggling with the robber over the cash-register drawer, Casey said.


"The female employee was never attacked," she said. The robber reached in and grabbed cash out of the drawer.


"We have a statement from both [Beverly] and the female employee," Casey said. "Neither one of them say anything about her being attacked, hurt or anything, and the video we have substantiates it."


Beverly said that from his vantage point, he thought she was being attacked.
"With both of them so close it looked — from the angle that I was at — it looked like she was being attacked," he said.


LINK WHERE YOU CAN SEND COMPANY A MESSAGE.

http://www.marathon.com/About_Marath...tomer_Service/
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Hawke on May 23, 2008, 09:34:17 PM
Store clerk involved in shootout honored by community

Source: http://kstp.com/article/stories/s430496.shtml?cat=86

Quote
The store clerk, 57-year-old Matt Warren Huerta, told 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS he was determined not to let Curry get his hands on the store's safe.

"He wanted to tie me up and fumbled around and couldn't do it. Then he used the electrical cord off my vacuum cleaner and when that didn't work very well, I saw that he had taken both hands off the weapon," explained Huerta.

He said that was when he realized he had a chance to fight back.
Title: Six year old hero
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 07, 2008, 05:21:00 AM
Not exactly defense, but certainly heroic:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16479379/detail.html

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. -- Adults didn't see a drowning 5-year-old, but his 6-year-old friend did.Haden Stusak, 6, of Fayetteville is being called a hero after he dived into a pool to investigate a shadow on the bottom that turned out to be his friend.Josiah Buddah, 5, and Haden are buddies. Haden is a good swimmer, but Josiah can't swim without his water wings.On Sunday, Josiah took off his water wings and sank to the bottom of the deep end."I was scared, I was scared," said Josiah.An adult spotted a shadow in the pool, but couldn't get to it. No one knew the shadow was Josiah. But Haden got curious and dove down to investigate. He had been practicing diving to the bottom. When he discovered Josiah, he grabbed him and pulled him to the surface.VIDEO: 6-Year-Old Saves 5-Year-Old Friend From Drowning
"Well, I grabbed him like that; he was like unconscious. I grabbed him and I was swimming like this," said Haden."He jumped inside the water; he helped me get back up," said Josiah.Two nurses and doctor started CPR."They took me to the hospital," said Josiah. "I was dead and couldn't breathe."It all happened in seconds."I could have been burying my baby this week, so just to know that he's here, No. 1, is amazing, because to see your child lifeless for a few minutes, you think it's over," said Josiah's mother, Judith Buddha."So I called 'Help, help, he drowned,'" said Haden.Haden's parents told Channel 2 they ask him not to talk so loudly and to keep his voice down. This is one time they're glad they heard his screams.Josiah is doing well and is now swimming with a float suit. He will start lessons in a couple of weeks.And in true hero fashion, Haden says what he did was no big deal."We're friends. That's what friends do," said Haden.
Title: Gas Station Employee Fired for Fighting Off Robber
Post by: JDN on June 09, 2008, 04:46:58 PM


Hmmmm "Hero"???

According to the article, Beverly;

1. signed and acknowledged clear company policy not to interfere
2. there was no mention of Beverly having any military/police experience
3. the local Police Capt. in his expert opinion clearly said it was wrong to interfere
4. the MN EEOC also ruled that the employee acted wrongly and in error
5. the female employee was NEVER attacked proven as per the video AND testimony
    given by the same female employee

Frankly, the Marathon spokeswoman was right, "he endangered himself and her
(the other female employee)."

This story has a "happy ending" but what if the robber, rather than simply leaving
with $15.00, out of anger or stress shot Beverly AND shot and maybe killed the other
innocent female employee who had merely been following company policy?  Would we
be singing praises to Beverly for contributing to his co-worker's death?  And not
to mention, while not important compared to human life, the female employee
and/or her estate would probably file a wrongful death suit against Marathon
because of the grossly negligent Beverly.

This story has a "Happy Ending" and resolved itself ONLY because Beverly finally listened
to the robber and decided NOT to be a "Hero". Otherwise his stupidity almost got two
people killed over $15.00.
Title: 85 year old woman makes intruder call cops
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 20, 2008, 10:06:18 AM
Armed 85-year-old woman makes intruder call cops

August 19, 2008 - 11:23pm

POINT MARION, Pa. (AP) - An 85-year-old woman boldly went for her gun and busted a would-be burglar inside her home, then forced him to call police while she kept him in her sights, police said. "I just walked right on past him to the bedroom and got my gun," Leda Smith said.

Smith heard someone break into her home Sunday afternoon and grabbed the .22-caliber revolver she had been keeping by her bed since a neighbor's home was burglarized a few weeks ago.

"I said 'What are you doing in my house?' He just kept saying he didn't do it," Smith said.

After the 17-year-old boy called 911, Smith kept holding the gun on him until state police arrived at her home in Springhill Township, about 45 miles south of Pittsburgh.

The boy will be charged with attempted burglary and related offenses in juvenile court, Trooper Christian Lieberum said. He was not identified because of his age.

"It was exciting," Smith said. "I just hope I broke up the (burglary) ring because they have been hitting a lot of places around here."
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on August 20, 2008, 03:14:28 PM
In reference to the other thread, would the law prof suggest that she make no statement when the police arrive?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: SB_Mig on August 20, 2008, 04:11:39 PM
I'm guessing he would say, "keep your mouth shut". Probably more from a civil suit p.o.v. than a criminal one. The poor burglar was probably scared out of his wits and she was keeping him hostage after all.  :evil:
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on August 20, 2008, 04:19:38 PM
Some criminals are incredibly sharp witted and can lie with incredible ability.

The police arrive and based on what she saw on the net, grandma refuses to speak to the police. Meanwhile, the little dirtbag tells the police that he was walking down the sidewalk when the old lady confronted him at gunpoint and abducted him into her home. He then says he was trying to call 911 for help when she caught him and told him to tell the dispatcher he broke in, all while at gunpoint.

I wish I could ask the prof to answer that one.  :evil:
Title: 2 civilians and LEO stop mad bomber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 21, 2008, 06:34:02 AM
Police: Man with bombs 'ready for war' with city


(CNN) -- A police officer and two civilians subdued an armed man who drove to a California probation office with 11 crude bombs, 70 loaded magazines and more than 4,000 rounds of ammunition, police said.

The man, Michael Solano, 54, of Sacramento, was out of jail on bail for a July 18 incident in which police said an explosive device was found in his vehicle at the probation office.

"This guy was ready for war," Yreka Police Chief Brian Bowles said in a written statement. "We were very lucky this guy was stopped and nobody was killed yesterday."

The incident occurred Tuesday afternoon, when people saw Solano acting suspiciously near the Siskiyou County Probation Department and called police, Bowles said.

Solano aimed a gun at an officer, police said. Two civilians then jumped into the fray and, with the officer, subdued Solano and wrestled the gun away, police said.

During the scuffle, Solano repeated that he wanted to be killed and reached for the officer's gun and Taser stun gun, Bowles said.
Solano was handcuffed and searched. Police found a pipe bomb in his shoe, Bowles said. A neighborhood near the probation office was evacuated after Solano told police that he had 10 bombs in his car parked nearby, authorities said.

The bombs were "fragmentation grenades," loaded with nails and BBs, Bowles said. In all, police discovered 70 loaded magazines, more than 4,000 rounds of ammunition, one stolen pistol and two assault weapons. They also found in Solano's car three other weapons, including one with a silencer, surveillance equipment, a tactical vest and clothing with face masks, Bowles said.

Solano was jailed in lieu of $2 million bail, police said. He was charged with possession of a destruction device, transportation of a destruction device and resisting police officer by force, attempting to take an officer's firearm and assault with a firearm on a peace officer. He is facing additional charges, authorities said.

Bowles thanked Brett Duncan and and Darrell Bourne of Yreka, who he said helped subdue Solano.

"We are lucky that the quick response from officers and help from the citizens saved us from a very serious incident," he said.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: SB_Mig on August 21, 2008, 09:50:21 AM
Quote
He then says he was trying to call 911 for help when she caught him and told him to tell the dispatcher he broke in, all while at gunpoint.

awesome... :-D
Title: Re: Six year old hero
Post by: peregrine on August 21, 2008, 12:35:37 PM
Not exactly defense, but certainly heroic:

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/16479379/detail.html

FAYETTEVILLE, Ga. -- Adults didn't see a drowning 5-year-old, but his 6-year-old friend did.Haden Stusak, 6, of Fayetteville is being called a hero after he dived into a pool to investigate a shadow on the bottom that turned out to be his friend.Josiah Buddah, 5, and Haden are buddies. Haden is a good swimmer, but Josiah can't swim without his water wings.On Sunday, Josiah took off his water wings and sank to the bottom of the deep end."I was scared, I was scared," said Josiah.An adult spotted a shadow in the pool, but couldn't get to it. No one knew the shadow was Josiah. But Haden got curious and dove down to investigate. He had been practicing diving to the bottom. When he discovered Josiah, he grabbed him and pulled him to the surface.VIDEO: 6-Year-Old Saves 5-Year-Old Friend From Drowning
"Well, I grabbed him like that; he was like unconscious. I grabbed him and I was swimming like this," said Haden."He jumped inside the water; he helped me get back up," said Josiah.Two nurses and doctor started CPR."They took me to the hospital," said Josiah. "I was dead and couldn't breathe."It all happened in seconds."I could have been burying my baby this week, so just to know that he's here, No. 1, is amazing, because to see your child lifeless for a few minutes, you think it's over," said Josiah's mother, Judith Buddha."So I called 'Help, help, he drowned,'" said Haden.Haden's parents told Channel 2 they ask him not to talk so loudly and to keep his voice down. This is one time they're glad they heard his screams.Josiah is doing well and is now swimming with a float suit. He will start lessons in a couple of weeks.And in true hero fashion, Haden says what he did was no big deal."We're friends. That's what friends do," said Haden.

Thank goodness that kid is alive.
I want to point out, where were the parents or adult supervision the whole time?
You don't let 5 and 6yo run loose at a pool all by themselves. Especially if they need "water wings".
If the child died, i would blame the parents for negligence. Having been a lifeguard for a few years when i was younger i recall numerous parents attempting to drop their young children off unsupervised and expect the lifeguards to baby sit their children. Even a few seconds of distraction with young children can be fatal.
I do not like water wings as they can easily slip off if the child puts his hands over his head, as well as they give parents false confidence. A vest is much better.

Every child should learn to swim proficiently. Start them early.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on August 21, 2008, 06:33:02 PM
More kids die from drowning in swimming pools every year than are killed by firearms. I'm saying it's long past time we ban the possession of swimming pools.  :evil:
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on August 25, 2008, 02:17:50 PM
Published: Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Monroe couple describe how they fought off armed man

By Jackson Holtz, Herald Writer
MONROE -- A few hours before Donna Angevine smacked an intruder in the head more than 20 times with a baseball bat early Thursday, she was sparring with her tae kwan do instructor.

He had to egg her on.

"Hit me," the instructor told her. Be aggressive.

The self-defense and martial arts training paid off for the Monroe woman, 45, when she and her husband, Roger Angevine, woke up to find a man in their bedroom.

"I'm here to rob you," they remember him saying.

Nearly a week later, the couple has stitches and deep purple bruises. Donna Angevine has a black eye. Her husband, 48, has a foot-long bruise on his side and a bite mark on his thigh.

The carpet in their bedroom, where the attack occurred, was removed. Police said the blood from the fight rendered it a biohazard and it needed to be destroyed.

The intruder is behind bars.

Taking a break from mowing their lawn Tuesday, the couple -- he's a retired business owner and she's a doggie fashion designer -- recounted their ordeal.

Roger Angevine said at first he thought maybe the intruder was a friend pulling a prank. He asked the man if he was serious.

"Does this feel serious?" the stranger said.

Angevine felt the sharp slap of a baseball bat against his torso.

The blow triggered a 15-­minute struggle.

The man ordered the couple, who were naked and unarmed, to the ground.

That's when Roger Angevine decided to fight back.

He tackled the intruder, hitting him with such force that he knocked the man's head through the drywall.

"My goal was to grab onto his wrists and hold on," Roger Angevine said.

An avid snowmobiler, Roger Angevine said he knows how to grip handlebars strong enough to save his life. Grasping the man's wrists was similar.

The couple was able to take away the intruder's gun and baseball bat.

"Hit him! Hit him! Hit him!" Roger Angevine yelled to his wife.

Again and again, Donna Angevine swung the bat at the man's head. She pleaded with him to stop fighting, but he continued.

"Please stop fighting," she said. "I don't want to hurt you anymore."

The fight went back and forth from the bedroom into an adjoining weight room. The two men wrestled while Donna Angevine kept swinging the bat.

At one point, the intruder bit Roger Angevine's thigh.

"That's actually what pissed me off," he said.

Finally, the intruder succumbed. The couple hog-tied him with belts and Donna Angevine sat on him until Snohomish County sheriff's deputies arrived.

"I came to make a quick buck," the man, 24, told police, according to court papers.

He said he walked from his Bothell home to the couple's residence at the end of a long private road in rural Monroe, the documents said.

"You have a lovely home," the man told the couple during the robbery attempt. "I thought you'd have lots of cash."

The intruder was hospitalized Thursday with a head wound. On Friday, he was booked into the Snohomish County Jail for investigation of first-degree burglary, first-degree robbery, second-degree assault and possession of a stolen firearm. He was being held Tuesday on $100,000 bail.

Police found in the man's backpack a knife, plastic zip ties, white nylon rope, black duct tape and a single roll of toilet paper, potentially for use in gagging his victims.

Roger Angevine said he finds it hard to believe someone would randomly stumble upon the house he and his wife built eight years ago. The intruder also seemed to know the layout of the house.

The man slipped in through an unlocked door, fetched a slab of bacon from the kitchen to lure the couple's three dogs away and found the bedroom amid the sprawling floor plan, Angevine said.

Snohomish County detectives continue to investigate the break-in. The Angevines acted in self-defense and will not face charges, officials said.

The couple said they're locking their doors and have beefed up their security plan.

They hope their ordeal will provide a cautionary tale to others.

"You can't rely on locked doors to stop a guy with a gun, baseball bat and a mission," Roger Angevine said. "You have to be able to defend yourself."

On Tuesday night, Donna Angevine said she continued her self-defense training at a session for women at Tiger Rock tae kwon do in Monroe.

"The guy just picked the wrong people to mess with," she said.

Reporter Jackson Holtz: 425-339-3437 or jholtz@heraldnet.com.
The Daily Herald Co., Everett, WA
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080730/NEWS01/114048324&SearchID=73327635441828
Title: Rapist Choked Out
Post by: Body-by-Guinness on September 29, 2008, 06:00:19 AM
Home Invader Dies In Struggle With Father Of Intended Victim

Police: Sex Offender Brought Rope, Condoms, Knife To Planned Attack

POSTED: 4:38 pm EDT September 28, 2008
UPDATED: 6:21 am EDT September 29, 2008

INDIANAPOLIS -- A man who police said broke into a home with the intention of sexually assault a 17-year-old girl in her bedroom died early Sunday morning after a struggle with the girl's father.

David Meyers (pictured), 52, was pronounced dead at the scene shortly after officers arrived following a report of a home invasion in the 3500 block of West 79th Street at about 3:20 a.m.

Officers said they found Robert McNally, 64, on the floor with his arm around the neck of Meyers, struggling to hold him down.

When officers told McNally he could let go, they found that Meyers was unresponsive. Medics who were called to the scene then pronounced Meyers dead.

Indianapolis police Sgt. Matt Mount said Meyers had come into the home naked, except for a mask and latex gloves.
"He had rope, had a knife, had condoms, had a gag," Mount said.

Police said Meyers had gotten into the home through a window next to the girl's bedroom and that he knew the home well because his uncle owns it and he was an acquaintance of the family.

The teen awoke to find a naked man in her room and began screaming, alerting McNally, police said.
During a protracted struggle in the hallway of the home, McNally was able to get his arm around Meyers' neck and subdue him while his wife called police, officers said.
Meyers was a registered sex offender and was released from prison two years ago after he had served 10 years of a 20-year sentence for criminal confinement and sexual deviate conduct stemming from a case in Hamilton County.

Meyers was also being sought in Boone County for failure to register as a sex offender.

Police said Meyers had been living with his mother down a gravel road from the home that the McNally family lived in and had recently lost his job.
"When they got the mask off, both the father and daughter recognized him," Mount said.

Police said Meyers had a history of heart problems. They were not immediately sure if he died as a result of heart failure or from being choked.
The results of the police investigation will be turned over to the Marion County Prosecutor's Office, but it is unlikely charges will be filed, police said.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/17576601/detail.html
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Ronin on September 29, 2008, 08:01:44 AM
He got off easy, if it had been my daughter...
Title: Citizen saves shot LEO by interposing his motorcyle
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 01, 2008, 05:58:02 AM
http://www.policelink.com/news/56785-citizen-honored-for-aiding-critically-wounded-officer
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Stickgrappler on October 01, 2008, 02:02:34 PM
not sure if this post belongs in Russ Iger's Crimes using Knife thread, http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=463.0, or here....

from http://www.nypost.com/seven/10012008/news/worldnews/blades_of_gory_131524.htm

Quote
BLADES OF GORY
MIRACLE FOR KNIFED TEEN

By TODD VENEZIA

These amazing X-rays tell a stunning story of survival - in which a 16-year-old boy somehow lived through a horrifying attack by a thug who plunged a knife into his skull.

The miracle kid was stabbed and left for dead during a robbery at a bus stop last November in south London, the BBC reported.

It could have been a grisly end for the victim if his pals had not intervened and fought off the attacker. They suffered serious wounds themselves during the robbery attempt; one was stabbed in the chest.

The 5-inch blade was plunged into the 16-year-old's skull just above his right eye, and penetrated all the way to his ear. The handle was left ghoulishly sticking out, as captured in these images released yesterday.

The victim has recovered and is now a student in college, the BBC reported. But he still needs to visit doctors regularly.

The 17-year-old suspect made his getaway on foot, but was later identified when cops were able to recover DNA from his hat.

The attacker - who, like the victim, has not been named publicly due to British law - was found guilty of attempted murder by the Inner London Crown Court.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Stickgrappler/ma/news019.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v446/Stickgrappler/ma/news019a.jpg)
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 02, 2008, 10:07:35 AM
 :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o :-o
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Ronin on October 02, 2008, 12:04:43 PM
Luck...the great equalizer !
Someone better be grateful for a second chance at life !
Title: Waitress nails bank robber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 04, 2008, 07:31:37 PM
Unarmed Coffee Shop Waitress Nabs Fleeing Bank Robbery Suspect

Saturday , October 04, 2008

An unarmed coffee shop waitress in Hillborough County, Fla., tackled and subdued an alleged armed robber after he hit the Valrico State Bank on Friday, Bay News 9 reported.

The Da Silva’s Coffee Shop employee had been trained in Germany as a police officer, but she was only half the size of the suspect she took down.

Local police said suspect Jeffrey Merritt, 44, ran past Da Silva’s on the way to his getaway car after robbing the bank.

The waitress — the Tampa Tribune reports she wished to remain unidentified — reportedly saw Merritt running with something and looking behind him. She chased him down, yelling, “Freeze or I’m going to shoot” and then tackled him.

She did not have a gun, but the bluff worked, and the suspect surrendered.

"I knew she was a trained officer, but I didn't know what that really meant," Karen Raga, a co-worker, told The Tampa Tribune.

Bystanders then helped the waitress sit on Merritt until police arrived.

Click here to read more on this story from Bay News 9.
Click here to read more on this story from The Tampa Tribune.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 04, 2008, 07:35:57 PM
Nice. But it's not worth getting crippled or killed to try to save the bank's federally insured money.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on November 29, 2008, 06:30:13 AM
Man with candy cane fends off attacker:

"A man using a candy cane lawn ornament fended off a knife-wielding neighbor who had been attacking holiday guests at a Sacramento home.

Police spokesman Sgt. Norm Leong said the man used the 2-foot-tall plastic ornament to subdue the attacker until officers arrived and arrested him.

He said the 49-year-old suspect became intoxicated, went over to a neighbor's home on Thanksgiving and began waving a kitchen knife at people gathered on the lawn. He cut several people's clothing before one of them decided to fight back.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/29/BA9414EA9R.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 02, 2008, 12:29:31 PM
http://www.mercurynews.com/warriors/ci_11094588

OAKLAND — A 15-year-old gang associate was in critical condition Friday after he was wounded twice by his own gun during a struggle with a 32-year-old he pointed the weapon at, police said.

The man, who police said was a former paratrooper in the Honduras army, was not hurt and waited for police to respond to where the confrontation happened. He gave a statement to investigators before he was arrested on suspicion of assault while the district attorney's office determines whether he acted in self-defense.

Police would not release the name of the teen or the adult pending the district attorney's review.

The shooting happened just before 2 a.m. Friday in the 3700 block of Foothill Boulevard in the Fruitvale district. The area is a known hangout of certain gang members and police said the 15-year-old is associated with the gang.

The man was on his cell phone when he was confronted by the teen, and possibly some other youths, said Officer Robert Trevino, who is investigating the case with Sgt. Drennon Lindsey.  The teen pointed a pistol at the man, who had never seen him before, and used a street term to see if he was in another gang, police said. Police said the man is not a gang member and has only been in Oakland eight months, seeking work.  When the teen was momentarily distracted by a passing car, the man grabbed the gun and the two began struggling over it, Trevino said. During the struggle the gun went off twice, hitting the teen in the neck and shoulder, police said.

He was taken to a local hospital by friends where he underwent surgery. The man waited for police to come to the scene and gave them the pistol.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 04, 2008, 03:59:55 PM
Citizen helps LEO during shooter situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYam1pczNeM&feature=related
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: peregrine on December 04, 2008, 10:02:15 PM
Citizen helps LEO during shooter situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYam1pczNeM&feature=related

That guy interviewed is a hero imho. He helped save lives by alerting others who initially were in disbelief and shock, then by guiding leo in to the shooter.
Note how the interviewed gentleman believesthe shooter was enjoying himself and was going to continue if not stopped dead by police.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on December 15, 2008, 08:46:31 AM
"Food" for self defense ....?!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7782122.stm
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 11:13:53 AM
Peregrine wrote, "The guy who intervened is a hero imho."

Personally, I agree, but...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-good-samaritan19-2008dec19,0,4033454.story

The article is too long to copy, but the gist of the article is that if you intervene, even for good cause,
you may be liable.

"Torti has no immunity for her bravery in pulling her injured friend from a crashed vehicle even if she
reasonably believed it might be about to explode."

So you try to help, thinking you are doing the "right thing" and now you are liable.  Your good samaritan
action may cost you your house and life savings.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 19, 2008, 01:14:14 PM
Here's the full article:

California Supreme Court allows good Samaritans to be sued for nonmedical care
The ruling stems from a case in which a woman pulled a crash victim from a car 'like a rag doll,' allegedly aggravating a vertebrae injury.

By Carol J. Williams
December 19, 2008

Being a good Samaritan in California just got a little riskier.

The California Supreme Court ruled Thursday that a young woman who pulled a co-worker from a crashed vehicle isn't immune from civil liability because the care she rendered wasn't medical.


The divided high court appeared to signal that rescue efforts are the responsibility of trained professionals. It was also thought to be the first ruling by the court that someone who intervened in an accident in good faith could be sued.

Lisa Torti of Northridge allegedly worsened the injuries suffered by Alexandra Van Horn by yanking her "like a rag doll" from the wrecked car on Topanga Canyon Boulevard.  Torti now faces possible liability for injuries suffered by Van Horn, a fellow department store cosmetician who was rendered a paraplegic in the accident that ended a night of Halloween revelry in 2004.


But in a sharp dissent, three of the seven justices said that by making a distinction between medical care and emergency response, the court was placing "an arbitrary and unreasonable limitation" on protections for those trying to help.

In 1980, the Legislature enacted the Health and Safety Code, which provides that "no person who in good faith, and not for compensation, renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency shall be liable for any civil damages resulting from any act or omission."  Although that passage does not use the word "medical" in describing the protected emergency care, it was included in the section of the code that deals with emergency medical services. By placing it there, lawmakers intended to shield "only those persons who in good faith render emergency medical care at the scene of a medical emergency," Justice Carlos R. Moreno wrote for the majority.

The high court cited no previous cases involving good Samaritan actions deemed unprotected by the state code, suggesting the challenge of Torti's rescue effort was the first to narrow the scope of the law.

The three dissenting justices argued, however, that the aim of the legislation was clearly "to encourage persons not to pass by those in need of emergency help, but to show compassion and render the necessary aid."  Justice Marvin R. Baxter said the ruling was "illogical" because it recognizes legal immunity for nonprofessionals administering medical care while denying it for potentially life-saving actions like saving a person from drowning or carrying an injured hiker to safety.

"One who dives into swirling waters to retrieve a drowning swimmer can be sued for incidental injury he or she causes while bringing the victim to shore, but is immune for harm he or she produces while thereafter trying to revive the victim," Baxter wrote for the dissenters. "Here, the result is that defendant Torti has no immunity for her bravery in pulling her injured friend from a crashed vehicle, even if she reasonably believed it might be about to explode."

Both opinions have merit, "but I think the majority has better arguments," said Michael Shapiro, professor of constitutional and bioethics law at USC.

Shapiro said the majority was correct in interpreting that the Legislature meant to shield doctors and other healthcare professionals from being sued for injuries they cause despite acting with "reasonable care," as the law requires.  Noting that he would be reluctant himself to step in to aid a crash victim with potential spinal injuries, Shapiro said the court's message was that emergency care "should be left to medical professionals."

Torti's liability has yet to be determined in court, and if the Legislature is unhappy with any judgment arising from the immunity denial, it can revise the code, he concluded.

Torti, Van Horn and three other co-workers from a San Fernando Valley department store had gone out to a bar on Halloween for a night of drinking and dancing, departing in two cars at 1:30 a.m., the justices noted as background.

Van Horn was a front-seat passenger in a vehicle driven by Anthony Glen Watson, whom she also sued, and Torti rode in the second car. After Watson's car crashed into a light pole at about 45 mph, the rear car pulled off the road and driver Dion Ofoegbu and Torti rushed to help Watson's two passengers escape the wreckage.

Torti testified in a deposition that she saw smoke and liquid coming from Watson's vehicle and feared the car was about to catch fire. None of the others reported seeing signs of an imminent explosion, and Van Horn said in her deposition that Torti grabbed her arm and yanked her out "like a rag doll."  Van Horn's suit alleges negligence by Torti in aggravating a vertebrae injury suffered in the crash, causing permanent damage to the spinal cord.

Neither Torti nor her attorney, Ronald D. Kent, could be reached immediately. Kent's Los Angeles law office said he was in meetings on the East Coast and may not have seen the decision.

Van Horn's attorney, Robert B. Hutchinson, disputed the notion that the ruling could have a chilling effect on laymen coming to the rescue of the injured. Good Samaritan laws have been on the books for centuries and state that "if a person volunteers to act, he or she must act with reasonable care," Hutchinson said.

"Ms. Torti ran up in a state of panic, literally grabbed Ms. Van Horn by the shoulder and yanked her out, then dropped her next to the car," he said, deeming Torti's assessment of an imminent explosion "irrational" and her action in leaving Van Horn close to the car inconsistent with that judgment.

Hutchinson said it was too early to say what sum Van Horn might seek in damages; her original suit was summarily dismissed in Los Angeles County Superior Court before he could arrange expert assessments of the costs of her life care and loss of potential income. It was her ambition to become a Hollywood makeup artist -- a dream no longer achievable, the lawyer said.

Torti's trial at the Chatsworth courthouse is expected next year.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 01:34:49 PM
Marc, I could too have posted the entire article; perhaps I should have.  What I am more interested in
is your comments and thoughts; does one intervene?  Or do you think twice?  For example a robbery is taking place.  The robber
has a gun.  He says the usual, "give me the money or I will shoot you".  You are a citizen/customer armed with
a weapon.  Do you intervene?  My point, if for example you do intervene and the clerk is shot, did your good
samaritan action make you liable in CA?  Maybe the thief was going to simply leave with the money?  But you
intervened and the robber then shot the clerk.  Your good samaritan intervention indirectly caused injury or
death.  Are you liable?   Perhaps now under this ruling the clerk or his estate has action against you?

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 19, 2008, 05:42:56 PM
http://www.kfsm.com/global/story.asp?s=9541680&ClientType=Printable

Reported by Jared Broyles
Concealed carry permit comes in handy for woman in Fort Smith
Posted: Dec 17, 2008 05:45 PM
Updated: Dec 17, 2008 10:36 PM

FORT SMITH - She's a woman who knows how to protect herself as two men who tried to rob her found out. What they didn't know was the woman is licensed to carry a concealed weapon...and yes, she was packing heat.

"A lady was flagged over Sunday evening about 6 p.m. on the interstate between Kelley Highway and the Arkansas river bridge." Lt. Steve Coppinger with State Police says that two men in a car signaled that the woman was getting a flat tire.

"When she pulled over to check her tires one of those person in that other car got out and attempted to rob her at knife point."

But what the thief didn't expect happened next. Coppinger says the female driver pulled out her handgun.

"She pointed that at her attacker and he backed away, got in the car and they fled."

Investigators say the would-have-been victim was able to turn the tables because she had a concealed carry permit. State police are keeping some details of the investigation close to their vest so they will know when they get the right guys. Right now, officials are saying they believe this to be an isolated incident.

As for advice, Lt. Coppinger says to always pull over in a well-lighted public area. And if you are pulled over by someone you don't know, don't get out of the car. Use your cell phone to call 911 and ask for assistance.

Investigators for the Arkansas State Police are trying to track down the alleged suspects and what's been described as a black Toyota Camry with Oklahoma plates. If you have any information that could be helpful to their investigation, please call Troop H in Fort Smith.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 07:02:48 PM
GM, your example is different; the woman herself was attacked; she was defending herself (quite ably)
and is of course entitled to defend herself even in CA.

But let's say another person was being robbed at knifepoint, and the woman interceded.  And,
let's say she used her gun and people were hurt or killed.

My question, given the CA Supreme Court ruling (rather unexpected) it now seems that if an innocent
or even the guilty party is injured the "good samaritan" may have civil liability.   I intercede, help
someone out, people get hurt, and I lose my house and savings...
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 19, 2008, 08:02:26 PM
Anyone can be sued anytime, for anything. As a peace officer or citizen, you face potential liability for anything and everything. Aside from not really having any assets, there isn't much you can do to avoid getting sued. Keeping that in mind, I do what I think is right and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 08:15:17 PM
Actually, it is a little bit different.  While I agree "you face potential liability for anything and everything" one must play the odds.
As a peace officer, actually rarely do you personally face the consequences; the city or governmental agency gets sued and they
pay.  You simply go on with your life - note, that is how it should be; a law enforcement officer should not have to second
guess and concern themselves with personal civil liability.  However, as a private citizen, it's my pocketbook, no third party is going to
pick up the tab.  And even having no assets does not prevent a suit; in CA a judgment is good for 10 years and is renewable.
How long am I suppose to be poor?  :-)

Then again, I am not arguing with "doing what is right".  But in the LA Times example, she did what they thought is right.
And yet she will pay for it.  Sad, if the car had burned and she did not intervene, she has no liability.

And yet the CA Supreme Court said she is liable since she did intervene. 


Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 19, 2008, 08:41:25 PM
People can still sue a peace officer as an individual. The peace offivcer then has to demonstrate the he/she should be covered by qualified immunity as he/she was acting within the scope of his/her duties.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 08:59:26 PM
I understand; back to your anyone can sue anyone comment.

But rarely is a peace officer personally liable except in truly extreme egregious circumstances.
Going back to the issue of liability, a peace officer could accidental kill an innocent
bystander in a shootout; of course sad, but still within the scope of his/her duties.
The city/governmental agency might end up paying, but not the police officer.
In contrast, at least under CA law, the non peace officer would not have the "protection" of acting within the scope
of their duties.  Therefore, personal liability...  house and savings gone...
Better to stay out of it...?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 19, 2008, 09:04:55 PM
As a side note, in the post "Knife Fight in my Apartment"" the guy put the individual in a crude choke hold"; it worked.
And he stopped the fight.

But what happened if he didn't do it right and the guy died?  Or was permanently injured.  The "good samaritan is liable
for all he's got... and then some.  And maybe should be...?  Choke holds are tricky.  LAPD stopped doing it
due to "problems"; and the City paid out millions.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 19, 2008, 10:49:40 PM
Lets be precise now-- the LAPD stopped doing holds that attack the windpipe.  Stopping the blood flow is a completely distinct matter.

If I read the CA case correctly the question presented means that for the purpose of the question presented the court must assume the allegations to be true.  In this case the allegations are that the defendant got hyper and a bit hysterical and by so doing left the plaintiff crippled.  Did the law protect this behavior?  Was the defendant within the class protected by the law?

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 20, 2008, 06:40:53 AM
I understand; back to your anyone can sue anyone comment.

But rarely is a peace officer personally liable except in truly extreme egregious circumstances.
Going back to the issue of liability, a peace officer could accidental kill an innocent
bystander in a shootout; of course sad, but still within the scope of his/her duties.
The city/governmental agency might end up paying, but not the police officer.
In contrast, at least under CA law, the non peace officer would not have the "protection" of acting within the scope
of their duties.  Therefore, personal liability...  house and savings gone...
Better to stay out of it...?

**As I've said before, this is an individual decision everyone must make. You face criminal and civil liability for stepping in to defend others. You might be injured or killed in the confrontation as well. I know what I'll do, you have to decide your own rules of engagement.**
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 20, 2008, 06:45:35 AM
As a side note, in the post "Knife Fight in my Apartment"" the guy put the individual in a crude choke hold"; it worked.
And he stopped the fight.

But what happened if he didn't do it right and the guy died?  Or was permanently injured.  The "good samaritan is liable
for all he's got... and then some.  And maybe should be...?  Choke holds are tricky.  LAPD stopped doing it
due to "problems"; and the City paid out millions.

**Someone using a knife on others is deadly force. I'd be justified in shooting someone to stop them from attacking others with a knife. Using a restraint hold would be lesser force than shooting the attacker, given that you don't crush the windpipe or induce brain damage. Even if you do, depending on state statute, it's probably quite justifiable, under most circumstances.**
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 20, 2008, 07:30:59 AM
YOU would be justified shooting because you are law enforcement and are acting within the scope of your duties.  As a private citizen...?
And to exacerbate the problem, what is something went wrong, i.e. an innocent bystander was hit?  The City/governmental agency will
probably pay but for the citizen?  It's his house and savings ...

"Lets be precise now-- the LAPD stopped doing holds that attack the windpipe.  Stopping the blood flow is a completely distinct matter."

Yet even stopping the blood flow incorrectly can result in severe damage and even loss of life.  Plus a non expert
could attack the windpipe by mistake; I've done some ground work and frankly I am very leery of someone choking me out.  The facts would
be very similar to the above ruling; if a non trained medical (law enforcement) individual takes "good samaritan" action that causes injury or loss of life
that good samaritan is now open to civil suit and in CA may now most likely will be found personally liable.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 20, 2008, 11:25:19 AM
@ JDN:

My comments were in response to your overly broad/imprecise statement:
 
"Choke holds are tricky.  LAPD stopped doing it due to "problems"; and the City paid out millions."

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: TonyPeters on December 20, 2008, 01:27:49 PM
I recently read about the woman in CA who thought that if her co-worker didn't try to help her that she would be better off because a medical professional could help her.

I wonder if she ever gave thought to the fact that maybe if he didn't help her she would be a crispy mess right now if he left her alone and the car blew up...or she could be dead due to him leaving her there to bleed out externally or internally or get hit by a passing motor vehicle as they are rubber necking the wreck?

Unfortunate that she became a paraplegic and there is always a "would'a, could'a, should'a" decision that has to be made in a matter of seconds to make a difference at times.

"Good Faith" should cover citizens as it does LEO's.

I think that the average citizen should educate themselves on how to handle more common-scenario based trauma situations so that they can better gage low level risk up to and including a life threatening safety threat.

-Tony Peters   
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 20, 2008, 03:41:14 PM
As I did a search, I found "choke hold" often used interchangeably with control holds, carotid holds, and other holds including "stopping the blood flow".   Further, I think most laymen will use the term interchangeably.   

Between 1975 and 1982, 16 men died after the application of choke holds by officers with the Los Angeles Police Department. According to the LAPD's reports, five of the men had bar-arm holds placed on them, which cuts off air passage.
Nine of the deaths occurred after officers used the carotid artery hold, and in two of the cases, there was some uncertainty about which hold was used.
"The carotid hold -- it's a terrible idea, physically and medically," said Los Angeles civil rights attorney Michael R. Mitchell, who sought an injunction against the city of Los Angeles to bar the use of the control holds in the 1970s and 1980s.

Mitchell argued the case when it went before the U.S. Supreme Court in 1983. One count alleged that police officers "regularly and routinely" applied choke holds in situations where they are not threatened by the use of deadly force, and that numerous persons had been injured or killed as a result of the application of the carotid hold and other choke holds.
While the court did not side with Mitchell, the LAPD saw fit to raise the threshold for use, allowing the carotid hold only when there is an immediate threat of serious bodily injury or death.
Title: Ummm , , , exactly so
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 21, 2008, 09:20:18 AM
"As I did a search, I found "choke hold" often used interchangeably with control holds, carotid holds, and other holds including "stopping the blood flow".   Further, I think most laymen will use the term interchangeably."


Ummm, , , this IS my point.  You used a term which covered bar-arm windpipe holds AND carotid holds, whereas it was only the bar-arm hold which was abandoned as a technique.

"Between 1975 and 1982, 16 men died after the application of choke holds by officers with the Los Angeles Police Department. According to the LAPD's reports, five of the men had bar-arm holds placed on them, which cuts off air passage.
Nine of the deaths occurred after officers used the carotid artery hold, and in two of the cases, there was some uncertainty about which hold was used."

Not quite the way I remember the data, but I could be wrong.  I do remember that this hit the papers shortly after I arrived in LA.  The police chief, Darryl Gates, had just responded to a reporter's question about why a disproportionate number of the dead in the bar-arm choke cases were black by saying something like "Maybe they (blacks) don't respond to the technique like normal people."  
:-o    New and naive to the ways of LA, I assumed that the black mayor and former police chief Tom Bradley would can hit butt PDQ, bu such was not the case.

"The carotid hold -- it's a terrible idea, physically and medically," said Los Angeles civil rights attorney Michael R. Mitchell, who sought an injunction against the city of Los Angeles to bar the use of the control holds in the 1970s and 1980s."

Well, like most of us here, I have a reasonably good idea of what it is and what it does, and IMHO the man is an ass looking to make a contingency fee.

Mitchell argued the case when it went before the U.S. Supreme Court in 1983. One count alleged that police officers "regularly and routinely" applied choke holds in situations where they are not threatened by the use of deadly force, and that numerous persons had been injured or killed as a result of the application of the carotid hold and other choke holds."

The allegations of this contingency attorney mean very little  :evil:

"While the court did not side with Mitchell,"

an occasional moment of sanity strikes!

"the LAPD saw fit to raise the threshold for use, allowing the carotid hold only when there is an immediate threat of serious bodily injury or death."

Which agrees with the point that I have been making here-- your original statement that the "LAPD stopped doing chokeholds due to "problems"" was overbroad.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 21, 2008, 03:58:44 PM
Perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps not precise, or, simply we got off topic.

My original point was civil liability and how the recent CA Court ruling may affect "good samaritans".

I acknowledge that the LAPD stopped using chokeholds (only) and has raised the threshold when a carotid
hold is permitted.  My concern is that if the LAPD (trained officers; both physically trained to apply the hold
AND mentally trained as to when it is appropriate) has been forbidden to use a choke hold, and restrictions
because of injury/liability have been placed upon a carotid hold, perhaps the public should simply stay away from interfering, i.e. being a
good samaritan and leaving it to qualified personnel? 

Given the recent Supreme Court ruling, I think a layman (non professional) using a gun or a knife or applying a chokehold or even a carotid hold may and often
probably will be subject to civil liability if done so on behalf of another, i.e. being a good samaritan.  It depends upon the circumstances, but given the Court ruling the burden
of proof seems to have shifted.  And if something goes wrong, a stray bullet, a hold gone wrong, etc.....  unlike a police officer, you have little defense.  The police are
"acting within the scope of their duties; what is your defense?

Note, I am not talking about defending yourself, your family, loved ones or your home, I am saying liability as it affects interceding on behalf of an "unknown" third party.
Simply being a "good samaritan". 

I suggest "Do the right thing" is paramount; but think once, maybe twice before acting, however being a non professional, one's interpretation of the "right thing" may be different than a qualified police officer. 
It seems to me unless there is utterly no choice, better to abstain and if appropriate call the police.  Physically interceding, even though you think it's the "right thing to do" in a non life threatening
situation may severely cost you.  And while noble to interfere the CA Supreme Court seems to have said that if you don't do it 100% correctly, the burden of proof is on you and you may/will be liable.  You may
not care about the consequences at the time, but you will when you lose your house and savings later.





Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 21, 2008, 10:20:14 PM
"Perhaps I was not clear, or perhaps not precise, or, simply we got off topic."

No.  As I have had to make clear with increasing bluntness, in support of your position you made an overly broad statement.  Getting called on it is not "getting off topic".

"My original point was civil liability and how the recent CA Court ruling may affect "good samaritans"."

Actually that is not a "point"-- it is the subject of the conversation at the moment.

"I acknowledge that the LAPD stopped using chokeholds (only) and has raised the threshold when a carotid
hold is permitted." 

There, that wasn't so hard now was it?

, , ,

"Given the recent Supreme Court ruling, I think a layman (non professional) using a gun or a knife or applying a chokehold or even a carotid hold may and often probably will be subject to civil liability if done so on behalf of another, i.e. being a good samaritan.  It depends upon the circumstances, but given the Court ruling the burden
of proof seems to have shifted."

My reading is not that the burden of proof has shifted but that a qualified immunity has been read narrowly.

"I suggest "Do the right thing" is paramount; but think once, maybe twice before acting, however being a non professional, one's interpretation of the "right thing" may be different than a qualified police officer.  It seems to me unless there is utterly no choice, better to abstain and if appropriate call the police.  Physically interceding, even though you think it's the "right thing to do" in a non life threatening situation may severely cost you."

A question of one's values and how one feels looking in the mirror I suppose.

"And while noble to interfere the CA Supreme Court seems to have said that if you don't do it 100% correctly, the burden of proof is on you and you may/will be liable."

Umm, , , NO.  The CA Supreme Court has NOT imposed a standard of absolute liability, nor even one of strict liability.  As best as I can tell from this non-legal news report, the standard is one of reasonableness under the circumstances.  This is a question for the trier of the facts, be it a judge or a jury.  As I previously noted, but apparently has not been noted here:

QUOTEIf I read the CA case correctly the question presented means that for the purpose of the question presented the court must assume the allegations to be true.  In this case the allegations are that the defendant got hyper and a bit hysterical and by so doing left the plaintiff crippled.  Did the law protect (i.e. did the law confer immunity for) this behavior?  Was the defendant within the class protected by the law? END QUOTE 

The court held it did not.  It has not held the defendant liable, it simply has said that given the facts ALLEGED, the defendant is subject to suit.


"And yet the CA Supreme Court said she is liable since she did intervene."

No, it held she is subject to suit.  Whether she is liable will be determined at trial.

"  , , ,  if a non trained medical (law enforcement) individual takes "good samaritan" action that causes injury or loss of life
that good samaritan is now open to civil suit"

At last your formulation is essentially correct!

"and in CA may now most likely will be found personally liable."

Most likely?  What is the basis for this assertion?

JDN, apart from your initial avoidance of acknowledging a simple point of logic simply and fairly made, my annoyance here comes from your having stepped on a pet peeve of mine- which is people giving legal conclusions based upon , , , what I'm not sure.   Our legal system is hostile enough to the values that most of us here share without our whipping ourselves into a panic based upon something other than what was actually held by the court.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 22, 2008, 01:14:19 AM
On the point of values and California:

More than most, California faces serious threats from natural disasters, especially "the big one". In the case of "the big one" happening, it will be weeks before you see a in depth response from police/fire/ems/nat'l guard. So, do the survivors just ignore the screams from the trapped and injured?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 22, 2008, 01:37:41 PM
From the WT forum on this case:
==========================================

Good Samaritan laws raise the standard for liability, they do not eliminate liability. Generally speaking, under a GS law, if you are a trained care giver, you are only liable for Gross Negligence, not Ordinary Negligence. These terms are defined as:

Ordinary negligence is the failure to exercise such care as the great mass of mankind ordinarily exercises under the same or similar circumstances (Clemens v. State, 176 Wis. 289; 57 Am. Jur. 2d Negligence, § 98).

Gross negligence, on the other hand, generally signifies more than ordinary inadvertence or inattention, but less than conscious indifference to consequences (Alspaugh v. Diggs 195 Va. 1, 77 S. E. 2d 362; Prosser on Torts, Gross Negligence).

Wilful and Wanton Negligence
The usual meaning assigned to wilful and wanton negligence is that the actor has intentionally done an act of unreasonable character, in disregard of a risk known to him or so obvious that he must be taken to have been aware of it, and so great as to make it highly probable that harm would follow. Second Restatement of Torts, Section 500; Cope v. Davidson 30 Cal. 2d 193; Prosser on Torts-Degrees of Negligence. It is usually accompanied by a conscious indifference to the consequences amounting almost to a willingness that they shall follow. Wilful or wanton negligence is an action or omission which amounts to an extreme departure from ordinary care, in a situation where a high degree of danger is apparent. Prosser on Torts, Degrees of Negligence. Such wilful or wanton negligence must be more than mere thoughtlessness, inadvertence, or simple inattention.

Federal law has spoken on this matter as well.

The Volunteer Protection Act of 1997 (P. L 105-19) became effective in September of 1997. In addition to establishing immunity for acts of negligence, it also establishes a clear and convincing standard of proof for punitive damages to be awarded against volunteers and makes them liable for noneconomic damages (pain and suffering) only to the degree their wrongdoing caused the harm.

The act preempts state laws to the extent they are inconsistent with it. It does not preempt state laws that provide additional protection from liability. But states can opt out of the law by passing an act explicitly doing so.

Scope of Limitation on Liability

Under the act, no volunteer of a nonprofit organization or governmental entity can be liable for harm caused by his act or omission on its behalf if:

1. he was acting within the scope of his responsibilities at the time of the act or omission;

2. he was properly licensed, certified, or authorized by the appropriate authorities in the state where the harm occurred;

3. the harm was not caused by willful or criminal misconduct, gross negligence, reckless misconduct, or a conscious flagrant indifference to the rights or safety of the person harmed by the volunteer; and

4. the harm was not caused by the volunteer operating a motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft or other vehicle for which the state requires the operator or owner to possess a license or maintain insurance.

The act specifies that it does not affect (1) any civil action brought by the nonprofit organization or governmental entity against the volunteer; or (2) such organization’s or entity’s liability with respect to harm a volunteer causes.

The act also specifies that a state law is not inconsistent with the federal act because it:

1. requires the organization or entity to adhere to risk management procedures including mandatory training of volunteers;

2. makes the organization or entity liable for the volunteer’s acts or omissions to the same extent as an employer is liable for its employees’ acts or omissions;

3. subjects the volunteer to liability if the civil action was brought by a state or local government officer under state or local law; or

4. limits liability protection to cases where the organization or entity provides a financially secure source of recovery such as an insurance policy for those harmed by the volunteer.

These laws are not on the books so everyone who wants to help can help without fear of liability. They have been enacted so that a dentist on his way to a golf game who sees a kid get hit by a car can stop, render aid under a stressful, sudden situation, and not be found liable for a mistake made in the course of treatment if the mistake does not rise to the level of gross negligence.

People off the street, even well meaning people, are on their own. Always have been, always will be.

==========

If you are going to do something for someone, you have to use ordinary care.

If you are a drunk chick in a car with another drunk chick who wrapped the car around a tree/poll/object, see the airbags deploy and panic, then drag your badly injured friend out of the car because you think its going to explode...then put her down next to the car...

GUESS WHAT?

You are NOT a medical professional to which the law is addressed, and even if you were, that's probably gross negligence..."Gross negligence, on the other hand, generally signifies more than ordinary inadvertence or inattention, but less than conscious indifference to consequences (Alspaugh v. Diggs 195 Va. 1, 77 S. E. 2d 362; Prosser on Torts, Gross Negligence)."

The sky is NOT falling. People can help people. Stop panicking about this and go back to watching the price of oil fall to 1990's prices.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on December 25, 2008, 12:11:13 PM
A follow up to the recent CA Supreme Court ruling.

Patt Morrison LA Times
December 25, 2008

Uh, gentlemen? You three wise men? As your lawyer, I'm advising you not to go there.
No question, the family really needs help, especially with a newborn and all. But why take a chance? And the gifts? Honestly, you might just be opening yourselves up to a lawsuit. Frankincense? Myrrh? Somebody might be allergic. You know what those Roman attorneys say: abundans cautela non nocet -- better safe than sorry.

Crazy notion, isn't it?

Back then, certainly. Maybe not now. The California Supreme Court has given fresh meaning to "no good deed goes unpunished." It ruled last week that a woman who yanked a co-worker from a crashed car four years ago, and may have made her injuries worse, can be sued because what she did wasn't medical care.

The 4-3 decision goes to the heart of another biblical reference: the good Samaritan.
It was Halloween 2004 when several co-workers took two cars to go out for a night on the town. After one car, the second car stopped. Its passenger, Lisa Torti, leaped out to help. Torti, who said she thought the wrecked car was about to catch fire, grabbed Alexandra Van Horn and pulled her out.
Pulling her out "like a rag doll" allegedly made Van Horn's spinal injuries worse. The court's ruling allows Van Horn, now a paraplegic, to sue Torti. It also indicates that the provision that shields good Samaritans from liability, enacted by the Legislature in 1980, applies only to people giving medical care in an emergency.

There's a stink about this, and there should be. The implications for all of us are enormous. It's another chilling effect in a society where we're already freezing each other out.
You don't dare hug a hurting child who's not your own -- someone might call you a molester and call the cops. You don't ever apologize for anything, even if it's your fault; you'd be laying the groundwork for a lawsuit.

And now, when you see an accident or a crime, what will pop into your mind? "I have to help"? Or, "Will I get sued for trying to help?" Whatever your inner Samaritan is telling you, your inner Lawyer might be suggesting you just drive on past.
If everyone feels this way, we could be damaging a social compact that's deeply rooted -- the impulse to help others in trouble, even strangers.

My pal Michael Shermer, the author, science columnist and founder of the Skeptics Society, told me that evolution has an explanation for altruism. "By extending a helping hand to those who will reciprocate my altruism, I am helping myself." It's the Golden Rule, the expectation of getting back what you give.
In a complex world, we struggle to keep this going. But "if a good Samaritan," Shermer said, "can be held responsible for injuries resulting from the rescue attempt, this sends a signal to the rest of us to shut off our natural inclination to help, and [instead] to reinforce that other natural tendency we have of selfishness."

Would that Sylmar hospice nurse have risked her own skin last month to help elderly neighbors evacuate ahead of the fire that destroyed their mobile homes? It wasn't emergency medical care she was giving, after all.

Would the 19 people awarded the Carnegie Medal for heroism this week -- like the man who ran in front of a train to save a child -- have risked their lives if they'd known they were risking a lawsuit too?

Some states have "duty to rescue" laws; in Washington state, it's a misdemeanor not to help someone who's seriously injured, unless it would endanger you.
But laws vary. Some places require an "imminent peril" to the victim -- if there isn't one, the rescuer could be sued. ("Imminent peril" may mean one thing to paramedics and something else to the rest of us, who see crashed cars catch fire all the time on TV and in movies. In reality, collisions are a factor in only 3% of vehicle fires, according to data from the U.S. Fire Administration and a National Fire Protection Assn. survey.

This ruling is practically an engraved invitation to the Legislature to clear up the meaning in that 1980 code. Even with the budget apocalypse, legislators should attend to this fast, before the notion gets set in mental cement, that good Samaritans are just asking to get sued. While they're at it, why not devote, say, a couple of pennies from every traffic fine to help pay medical costs for victims inadvertently injured by a Samaritan's rescue attempt, like the woman who brought this case.

As for that New Testament passage, in which the Samaritan comes across a man who had been robbed, beaten and left for dead, "and bound up his wounds ... and took care of him" -- it'd be a shame to have to put an asterisk there, with the notation, "Not applicable in California."

Title: Intervention goes sideways
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 26, 2008, 06:01:29 AM
http://www.pnj.com/article/20081224/NEWS01/812240327/1052

Beach brawl suspect to be charged with murder

Saturday night fight ended in man's death

Kris Wernowsky • kwernowsky@pnj.com • December 24, 2008
Ryan Toole, 28, who spent about two months this year training as a mixed martial arts fighter, is charged in the death of Michael Chesney, 32. A conviction on the charge carries a possible state prison term of 20 years to life.
Chesney never regained consciousness after the fight early Saturday morning and spent the last hours of his life at Baptist Hospital in intensive care. The Beulah man was taken off life support early Sunday.
Toole's family has retained veteran criminal defense attorney Barry Beroset to represent him.

Beroset said Tuesday he could not speak about the details of his meeting with Toole, but he said his client's family is concerned about the well-being of Chesney's family.

"It's a very unfortunate situation for the family of this young man," Beroset said.

Attempts to reach Chesney's family Tuesday were unsuccessful. His visitation is scheduled for Friday.  Assistant State Attorney David Rimmer said he has reviewed transcriptions of six interviews, including statements from Toole and other witnesses, about the altercation. 

Escambia County Sheriff's Office homicide investigator Chris Baggett expects Toole will be allowed to surrender as early as today on the new charge.  The second-degree murder charge could lead to an increased bond for Toole, who originally was arrested on a count of second-degree attempted murder. He posted a $25,000 bond Sunday.

While Rimmer contends Chesney likely died when the back of his head struck the pavement and not directly because of the punch delivered by Toole, he says the act itself supports the new charge.

"It's going to be the state's position that Ryan Toole caused that to happen," he said. "If you push somebody off a 10-story building, hitting the ground may have killed them. But the mere act that someone pushed them means they can be held liable."

Toole was involved in an altercation with a woman outside The Islander on Pensacola Beach early Saturday. Chesney and a friend, Jason Campbell, 35, intervened about 2:40 a.m., the Sheriff's Office said.

Toole punched Campbell, then punched Chesney, who went down and hit his head on the pavement, Baggett said.

On Tuesday night, deputies assigned to Pensacola Beach were expected to begin checking in with each of the 13 bars at the beach.
Sheriff's Office Lt. Gary Montee said he was instituting the new policy as a result of the fatal fight.

"We can't put a cop on every street corner, but we can try to do what we can with the resources we have," Montee said.

Montee said when he worked at the beach in the 1970s, deputies walked into beach businesses and talked with the owner or employees.
"We would walk into these bars during every shift," he said. "You walk into these places and you get a good feel for its clientele. We are getting back to the basics."
Title: Woman fights carjacking
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 03, 2009, 08:21:39 AM
Woman fights carjacking:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=407_1230748256
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on January 03, 2009, 09:39:01 AM
That's awesome! I shop there :-o
Yay! even the 'hippies' are fighting back  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: TonyPeters on January 03, 2009, 11:12:30 AM
Woof,

Looks like that lady took the Martial Arts and Crafts to heart by stabbing the a**hole with scissors! :lol: It's great that she was able to "flip the switch" and go into survival mode. Thanks for sharing Guro.

-Tony
Title: 9 Year Old Chokes Out Pitbull
Post by: Body-by-Guinness on January 06, 2009, 09:04:38 AM
BJJ in action:

Boy stops pit bull attack with jujitsu choke hold
Drew Heredia, 9, said he and a friend were walking a small dog Dec. 30 when a pit bull attacked them. Heredia said he jumped on the pit bull and applied a choke hold that he learned while taking Brazilian jujitsu classes.

Link has video:

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/37069754.html?video=YHI&t=a

Any of you all heard of a "reverse naked choke?"
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 06, 2009, 10:40:32 AM
Awesome!!!
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: David III on January 06, 2009, 02:53:42 PM
That is one tough young man. I am really amazed that was possible. Choking out big dogs is not for the meek.  :-o
An outstanding example of quick, courageous action.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 11, 2009, 08:03:48 AM
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMvjaSVrpk4FwqVzz1qByd_Txs2QD95KIKNO3

'Man shot my mommy': Ohio woman slain, son taken
By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS – 16 hours ago

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) — The 4-year-old boy's explanation was even more startling than the sight of him, barefoot and clad in pajamas, standing alone in the lobby of a highway rest stop.
Judith McConnell and her husband, Michael, had pulled into the rest stop on Interstate 70 about 50 miles outside of Dayton just after 9 p.m. on Jan. 2.
The boy was by himself, staring out a window. Judith McConnell waved at him as they walked in. What he said next was chilling: "A man came into my house without knocking and shot my mommy."
The man then left him alone at the rest stop, the boy said.
The couple, driving home to Maryland after Christmas in Colorado, took the boy into their car to warm up and called police.
"He's been abandoned here by a man with a gun," Michael McConnell told police. "He's quite disturbed."
As they waited for deputies to arrive, the boy recited the information his mother had drilled into him — his address, his parents' names, two phone numbers.
When Montgomery County sheriff's deputies arrived at his family's small white bungalow in Dayton later that night, they found the body of his 29-year-old mother, shot to death.
The woman died after struggling with her attacker, said Sheriff Phil Plummer. The killer also sexually assaulted the boy before taking him to the rest stop and abandoning him, police said.
The Associated Press is not naming the family so as not to identify the victim of an alleged sexual offense.
Police say a man under arrest has confessed to the crimes. Montgomery County Prosecutor Mathias Heck is considering whether to seek the death penalty.
The chilling story began about a week before Christmas, when the 4-year-old's parents' car was stolen while they celebrated their fourth wedding anniversary at a rock concert in Columbus.
Police say the car, and the information inside it, led the killer directly to the family's home, about 75 miles away.
The young couple were struggling to make ends meet in a working-class Dayton neighborhood. She had left her job at a grocery store to stay home with her son. Her husband held down assorted jobs to support the family, working as an exterminator, a grocery store manager and a trainee at a bar-restaurant.
Neighbor Steve Hopkins, 41, described the boy as a precocious kid quick to make friends, even with adults.
"When he met you, he knew you," Hopkins said, saying the boy greeted him on the street with "How you doing, Steve?"
On Dec. 16, 10 days after their fourth anniversary, the couple drove to Columbus to see the band Duran Duran, Hopkins said.
Their Honda was reported stolen from an Ohio State parking garage on Dec. 17. The husband told police the car was unlocked and the keys had been left inside along with his wallet, which contained three credit cards and his Social Security card, according to a police report.
On the night of Jan. 2, he was working at a bar near their home. Police say his wife was home with their son, running a bath before bed.
The McConnells said the boy told them he was playing with his Ninja Turtle toys when a man carrying a shotgun walked up the sidewalk and broke into the house — "without knocking."
The Dayton Daily News, citing investigators, reported that the woman broke free, grabbed a knife, stabbed the intruder in the back and was shot twice in the abdomen during a struggle. She was found lying on a hallway floor.
Two days later, police arrested Charlie Myers, 22, of Columbus, who investigators say confessed to the crime.
FBI agents found that the woman's cell phone was used twice in Columbus after her death, including a call made to Myers' phone, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in Franklin County Municipal Court.
Investigators also found written directions to the woman's home in Myers' apartment, along with a computer, a Playstation 2 video game console and a cell phone, all consistent with items taken from the couple's house.
Police say Myers used information found in the unlocked vehicle to track down the couple.
Myers is charged with aggravated murder, kidnapping and gross sexual imposition involving a child under 13. He is being held in Montgomery County Jail in lieu of $5 million bail. No plea was entered, and Myers said he had no attorney.
Myers made an impromptu statement to reporters as he was being led into jail Wednesday, offering an apology and saying he had made a mistake and only wanted the family's "stuff."
He also gave an odd explanation for why the boy was taken: "I want to make sure the child could stay away from their parent because the parent had passed away."
___
Myers had it rough from an early age, when his mother died of a drug-related heart attack when he was just 4. He lived in homeless shelters with his father, who beat him with a belt, and struggled with a hearing impairment that wasn't addressed until he was 6 years old. He spent most of his childhood being shuttled between more than 20 foster homes in the Columbus area, according to court documents filed in Union and Franklin counties.
Myers started smoking marijuana at age 7, drank alcohol at age 8, and when he turned 11 he attempted suicide while living in a home for troubled boys, court documents show.
At age 17, living with an aunt in Marysville, Ohio, he broke into the empty house of elderly neighbors, stole valuables and set the house on fire. A juvenile court judge declined to transfer Myers' case to adult court, saying he was emotionally and psychologically damaged because treatment for his disability had been so delayed.
"I don't want you to hurt anyone else and I don't want you to hurt yourself," said Judge Charlotte Coleman Eufinger of Union County Juvenile Court. "I believe you can be a productive citizen."
Myers served three years in a juvenile detention center and was released on July 4, 2007, his 21st birthday.
Later that year, he stole a woman's car in Columbus, then showed up at her door a day or so later.
Sky Cunningham, 25, said Myers came to her apartment in December 2007 saying he had information about the missing vehicle. She was gone at the time and a roommate told Myers she wasn't home.
Myers later pleaded guilty to stealing the car, along with another belonging to Cunningham's roommate. She said the memory of the hassle had faded until she heard of the young mother's slaying.
"That could have been me," Cunningham told The Associated Press Thursday. "I got lucky. The timing was good that I was at my other job."
The little boy found in the highway waiting area turned 5 on Saturday and is staying with relatives.
His father returned to the house once last week to put the garbage on the curb, and says he won't ever allow his son back inside.
He told NBC's "Today" that he's grateful that his wife insisted they teach the boy his address and phone numbers. He admires his son for the bravery he showed through the ordeal.
"My focus is on him," he said. "I'm doing everything I can to bring a little bit of home to him."
Associated Press Writer James Hannah contributed to this report.
Title: Woman uses taser to help officer
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 26, 2009, 11:36:52 AM
http://www.officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Atlanta-Woman-Uses-Taser-Gun-to-Help-Officer-in-Distress/1$45111

Atlanta Woman Uses Taser Gun to Help Officer in Distress


Posted: Monday, January 26, 2009
Updated: January 26th, 2009 11:40 AM GMT-05:00

Story by wsbtv.com
LITHONIA, Ga. --

Tanisha Cross never thought the Taser stun gun she received for Christmas would come in handy so soon. Cross said she was headed to Wal-Mart in Lithonia with her mother when she noticed a DeKalb County police officer in distress.

"I just told my mom pull over, let's try to help," said Cross.

The 20-year-old mother, who received the taser as a gift from her husband, said she kept it in a diaper bag. Cross said while others gathered to watch, she sprung into action.

"I went straight for my kid’s diaper bag and I got it and asked it if he [officer] wanted me to do it and he said, 'Yea,'" said Cross.

Cross said the officer had a hard time defending himself because the attacker had taken the officer's radio and managed to rub pepper spray in the officer's face and eyes. Jolting the attacker, Cross' timing couldn't have been better. Cross said she tasered the suspect in his arms and legs. Cross said she stunned the attacker to where the officer regained his composure and fought back until a security guard came to their aid. "He's brave," she said. "He did his best to keep him from his gun. He handled the situation very well. I was just glad I could help him," said Cross. Cross doesn't consider herself a hero. "I'm just a bystander trying to help do the right thing," said Cross.

Copyright 2009 by . All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 26, 2009, 05:20:43 PM
Thank god for citizens like that.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: nonkosherdog on February 01, 2009, 04:08:29 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=713Yw8AEUzQ[/youtube]

this one in hebrew starts with an animated re-enactment - then some actual footage that is kind of graphic on the American PC scale , so be warned before the click 

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuoQOMLJA44[/youtube]


I dont know who has the bigger balls, the ones who helped people get out of harms way, the ones who stop to help the injured & scared, the ones who run toward the danger and put an end to it? I hope that with all my preparing and training that if & when... at the very least I dont just freeze up
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on February 01, 2009, 02:52:03 PM
Under extreme stress, you default to your level of training. If your training is good, you'll do fine.
Title: First, do no harm.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 02, 2009, 09:05:39 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487047,00.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews
NEW YORK — Police say a cab driver who tried to take a purse from a woman fare beater was beaten by a group of good Samaritans who thought they were seeing a robbery.

Police say it happened Saturday morning near the Staten Island Ferry Terminal when four woman, who had been club-going, got into a fight with the cab driver over the fare.  Police say the women left the taxi without paying and the cab driver gave chase, grabbing one of the women's purses.  That's when a group of men in a passing car thought they were witnessing a mugging and jumped on the cab driver, beating him and then fleeing the scene.  The cab driver was treated for cuts on his face.

The women were later picked up by police as they exited the Staten Island Ferry and issued summonses for fare beating.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on February 02, 2009, 09:22:40 PM
This is why you've got to be sure of what is going on before you jump into it.
Title: Old man kills in self-protection
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 13, 2009, 04:51:48 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b50_1197180749
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 23, 2009, 07:18:52 AM
Fast food giant McDonald's has denied workers compensation benefits to a minimum wage employee who was shot when he ejected a customer who had been beating a woman inside the restaurant.

A representative of the administrator for McDonald's workers compensation plan explained that "we have denied this claim in its entirety as it is our opinion that Mr. Haskett's injuries did not arise out of or within the course and scope of his employment."

Nigel Haskett, then aged 21, was working at a McDonald's in Little Rock, Arkansas last summer when he saw a patron, later identified as Perry Kennon, smacking a woman in the face. A surveillance video of the incident, which had been posted to YouTube, was taken down after McDonald's charged copyright infringement, but according to written descriptions of the video, Haskett tackled Kennon, threw him out, and then stood by the door to prevent him from reentering.

(Update: The video is now available in a news report from KARK4 in Little Rock, which is not subject to copyright claims and which can be seen below.)

Kennon went to his car, returned with a gun, and shot Haskett multiple times. Haskett staggered back into the restaurant and collapsed.

Kennon, who has a long criminal record, was arrested a few days later and charged with first-degree battery. The judge at his arraignment praised Haskett as a hero.

Haskett has since undergone three abdominal surgeries and has incurred over $300,000 in medical bills. McDonald's has declined to comment on their reasons for refusing his claim, because the case is still pending before the Workers Compensation Commission, but according to Haskett's lawyer, Philip M. Wilson:

"McDonald's position now is that during thirty-minute orientation Mr. Haskett and the other individuals going through the orientation were supposedly told that in the event of a robbery or anything like a robbery . . . not to be a hero and simply call 911. Mr. Haskett denies that anything like that was even mentioned during orientation or at any time during his employment with McDonald's."

McDonald's may be on shaky legal ground in their attempt to deny benefits. As explained by the blog "Joe's Union Review," courts have repeatedly ruled that injuries incurred in the course of "good samaritan" acts while on the job are entitled to compensation, especially if they result in good will towards the employer.

"McDonald’s is really living up to it’s reputation as an evil empire," another blog comments. "They’re no longer merely all about moving in on the little guy, or clogging your arteries with fry grease, or making kids big chunkers, but are also now turning on their employees."

This video was broadcast by KARK4 News and was posted at YouTube on February 22, 2009.

===========

If you want to let McDs know what you think , , ,

http://www.mcdonalds.com/contact/contact_us.html
Title: Curtescine Lloyd takes matters in hand
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 20, 2009, 11:12:45 AM
Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Matters in Hand


News article by Mike Royko for the Chicago Tribune

We've had the year of the woman and it is still going on, with females being elected to high office and named to the Cabinet posts, and the power of Hillary Rodham Clinton.
But what about Curtescine Lloyd? You never heard of her? Well, she is my choice as one of the most amazing and heroic women of recent years. Ms. Lloyd is a middle-aged nurse who lives with an elderly aunt in the rural hamlet of Edwards, Miss., near Jackson This is her story, most of it taken from the court transcript.

One night, Ms. Lloyd was awakened by a sound. She thought it was her aunt going to the bathroom. Suddenly a man stepped into her bedroom. Terrified, she sat up. He shoved her back down and said: "Bitch, you better not turn on a light. You holler, you're dead. You better not breathe loud." He declared his intentions, which were to rob her and to commit sexual assault. Of course, he phrased it far more luridly. He then took off most of his clothing and jumped into bed.

Here is what happened next, according to court records: Ms. Lloyd: "I got it. I grabbed it by my right hand. And then I grabbed it, I gave it a yank. And when I yanked it, I twisted all at the same time." (Need I explain what Ms. Lloyd meant by "it"? I think not.) "He hit me with his right hand a hard blow beside the head, and when he hit me I grabbed hold of his scrotum with my left hand and I was twisting it the opposite way. He started to yell and we fell to the floor and he hit me a couple more licks, but they were light licks. He was weakening some then." With Ms. Lloyd still hanging on with both hands, squeezing and twisting the fellow's pride and joy, they somehow struggled into the hallway.
"He was trying to get out, and I'm hanging onto him; and he was throwing me from one side of the hall wall to the other. I was afraid if I let him go, he was going go kill me" "So I was determined I was not going to turn it loose. So we were going down the hallway, falling form one side to the other, and we got into the living room and we both fell. He brought me down in front of the couch and he leaned back against the couch, pleading with me." "I said, 'Do you think I'm stupid enough to turn you loose and call the police?' He said, 'Well, what am I gonna do?' I said, 'You're gonna get the hell out of my house.' He said, 'How can I get out of your house if you won't let me go? How can I get out? I can't get out.' "
Ms. Lloyd, still twisting and squeezing, dragged the lout to the front door, which had two locks, and told him to unbolt them. It was a difficult process because he kept collapsing to the floor and she kept hauling him back to his feet. Ms. Lloyd, now confident that she had the upper hand (or should I say the lower hands?) and a full grasp of the situation, said: "When I turn you loose, I'm going to get my gun and I'm going to blow your (obscenity) brains out, you nasty stinking, low-down dirty piece of (obscenity), you."
"And when I did that, I gave it a twist, and I turned him loose. And he took a couple of steps and fell off the steps and he jumped up and grabbed his private parts and made a couple of jumps across the back of my aunt's car." "And I ran into my aunt's room, got her pistol from underneath the nightstand, ran back to the screen door and I fired two shots down the hill the way I saw him go. And then I ran back into the house and dialed 911."

The police came and examined the man's clothing. Inside the trousers was written the name Dwight Coverson. They found Coversion, 29, at home, in considerable pain and wondering if he could ever be a daddy. A one-day jury trial was held. As coverson's court-appointed lawyer put it: "The jury was out 10 minutes. Long enough or two of them to go to the bathroom." And the judge gave him 25 years in prison.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Tom Stillman on March 20, 2009, 01:46:58 PM
That was an inspirational story of courage indeed. What wouldn't surprise me is,  the cops knocking on her door one day and arresting her for taking those unnecessary shots down the hill in the direction that the assailant was last seen heading. She's very lucky in my opinion.  She could be doing some serious prison time for that act. 
My ex brother in law goes to court next month for pulling a gun on a guy (gang banger neighbor) who was trying to bum rush him as he was entering the front door of his apartment one evening.  No shots were fired . This guy called the cops on him and produced some false witnesses. Soon after, the cops came and took him away in handcuffs.  He faces a 4 to 12 year prison sentence accordind to California state law. It's getting to the point that you can't even defend youself without the risk of going to jail. also: To add insult to injury, his landlord kicked him out of his apartment. WTF !  He has no criminal record and is very responsible so, we are hoping the judge will go easy on him?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 20, 2009, 11:05:08 PM
Please keep us informed on development's in your ex-BiL's case Dog Tom.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 22, 2009, 06:53:16 AM
http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp...&nav=menu107_2

A local couple came home from work last Saturday night to find not one but five people burglarizing their home. As News 3's Anita Roman reports, the husband and wife took matters into their own hands before they called the police. Emery Childress III and his wife Brenda knew right away that something was wrong.

"Saturday evening I picked my wife up from work. She was going to take the evening off. We pulled up to the garage, we opened the garage door. When the garage was half-way up, the dogs ran out to us. And normally, the dogs are inside the house.  He went in first so I opened the door and let him in," continues Brenda. "And then I shut the door and...it only took about three seconds and I heard him say...Freeze. I use foul language - I say get on the ground, drop it. I walk over...to these guys...and I have them at gun point."

Inside their Henderson home were four perpetrators, all holding valuable weapons: guns, knives, and even a sword that belonged to them.

"I then entered from the garage, came around the corner where he had two suspects laying down on the floor," says Brenda. "They had our .45 down there and I picked it up."

While Emery's wife held the two perpetrators at gun point, he ran outside with the other gun and tried to catch two more that were waiting outside in an SUV.

"We had two adults and two juvenile girls were arrested," confirms Keith Paul, Henderson Police Department. "There is one suspect that is outstanding."

27-year-old Billy Hicks was booked on conspiracy; 18-year-old Avion Wilkins was booked on burglary, home invasion, conspiracy, and grand larceny of a firearm; and a 17-year-old girl and a 15-year-old girl were taken to the Clark County Juvenile Hall.

"It goes through my mind if, I did anything differently, maybe I would have got shot with my own gun when I entered my house," ponders Emery.

The Childresses know what they did was brave and Henderson Police agree. But if there is the possibility that someone is in your home, police ask that you call 911.  The fifth burglar, who is on the run, escaped with jewelry and money. If have any information on this case, please call the Henderson Police Department.
Title: Burger King robber bagged by CCW holder
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 25, 2009, 02:37:15 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southflorida/story/966133.html
Title: Wheel chaired woman shoots mugger
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 31, 2009, 09:33:26 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/09/whe....ap/index.html

NEW YORK (AP) -- Margaret Johnson might have looked like an easy target.

But when a mugger tried to grab a chain off her neck Friday, the wheelchair-bound 56-year-old pulled out her licensed .357 pistol and shot him, police said.

Johnson said she was in Manhattan's Harlem neighborhood on her way to a shooting range when the man, identified by police as 45-year-old Deron Johnson, came up from behind and went for the chain.

"There's not much to it," she said in a brief interview. "Somebody tried to mug me, and I shot him."

Deron Johnson was taken to Harlem Hospital with a single bullet wound in the elbow, police said. He faces a robbery charge, said Lt. John Grimpel, a police spokesman.

Margaret Johnson, who lives in Harlem, has a permit for the weapon and does not face charges, Grimpel said. She also was taken to the hospital with minor injuries and later released.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: ponytotts on April 22, 2009, 04:47:04 PM
if i tried to rob a hair dresser, got beat up by a girl, locked up and raped buy her for three days. I dont think I would tell anyone,,,,,,  :lol:


Hairdresser turns robber into sex-slave

14 April, 2009, 14:05
A hairdresser from the small Russian town of Meshchovsk has subdued a man who tried to rob her shop, and then raped him for three days in the utility room, Life.ru reports.

The incident occurred on Saturday, March 14. The working day was coming to an end at a small hairdressers, when a man armed with a gun rushed in and demanded the day’s earnings.The frightened employees and customers agreed to fulfill his demand, but when the shop’s owner, 28-year-old Olga, was handing the money to the robber, she suddenly knocked him down on the floor and then tied him up with a hairdryer cord. The 32-year-old Viktor couldn’t have known that the woman was a yellow belt in karate.

Olga locked the unlucky robber in the utility room and told her colleagues that she was going to call the police – but didn’t do so. When everybody left home, she approached the man and ordered him to ‘take of his underpants’ threatening to hand him over to the police if he refuses to cooperate.

After that Olga raped her hostage for three long days. She chained Viktor to the radiator with pink furry handcuffs and fed him Viagra.

She eventually let the man go on Monday, March 16, saying: “Get out of my sight!”
Viktor went straight to hospital as his genitals were injured, and then to the police.
Olga was resentful when she was taken by the police.

“What a bastard,” the woman said about Viktor. “Yes, we had sex a couple of times. But I’ve bought him new jeans, gave him food and even gave him 1.000 roubles (around $ 30) when he left.”
After that she wrote a notice to the police claiming the man tried to rob her shop.
Both Olga and Viktor may now face prison terms. The woman could be convicted of rape, while the man of robbery.

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 23, 2009, 01:25:52 AM
California Ride-Along Explorer Rescues Deputy

Posted: April 22nd, 2009 11:44 AM EDT
DANA M. NICHOLS
The Stockton Record


VALLEY SPRINGS, Calif. -- A 16-year-old Explorer Scout riding along Friday with a Calaveras County sheriff's deputy may have saved the deputy's life during a brawl in Valley Springs, a Sheriff's Department spokesman said Monday.
Sgt. Dave Seawell, a department spokesman, did not identify the teenager but said Deputy Michael Dittman was on the verge of losing consciousness during a Friday night brawl when the Explorer intervened to pull an assailant's forearm off of Dittman's throat.
"I think he probably saved Dittman's life," Seawell said.

According to a written release, Dittman was called about 11:30 p.m. to a disturbance in the 100 block of Daphne Street in Valley Springs. Dittman reported that he arrived to find three men fighting on the front porch of a residence.
The deputy reportedly ordered the men to stop fighting. They ignored the command, and Dittman prepared to use his stun gun, Seawell said in the release.

The release described the events as follows:

Thomas E. Jones, 51, at the time was reportedly trying to restrain his son, Thomas C. Jones, from assaulting Michael Koppi, 22. But when the elder Jones realized the stun gun was pointed at his son, he confronted Dittman.
The deputy warned Thomas E. Jones to get out of the way. At that point, Thomas C. Jones broke free from Koppi and charged at Dittman.

The stun gun malfunctioned, and all three men then assaulted Dittman.

The deputy, realizing his stun gun failed to operate, tried to reholster it.

Thomas E. Jones grabbed the stun gun while Thomas C. Jones punched Dittman in the face. The deputy lost the stun gun to the elder Jones, who tried to turn it on the deputy. He failed to do so when Dittman struck the elder Jones on the arm with his baton.
The deputy said he struck both Joneses with his baton multiple times with little or no effect. The younger Jones wrestled the baton away while the older Jones punched the deputy in the face.

The fight continued, and Dittman and the younger Jones fell to the ground while the older Jones punched the deputy in the face. The younger Jones pushed his forearm into the deputy's throat.

Dittman reported he felt himself on the verge of losing consciousness when the Explorer intervened, pulling the arm away.
Then the elder Jones pushed the Explorer away.

As Dittman tried to get control of the younger Jones, his father tried to choke Dittman.

For a second time, Dittman felt himself on the verge of passing out and reluctantly was finally reaching for his firearm when Deputy Josh Crabtree arrived and successfully stunned Thomas E. Jones with a stun gun. Dittman and the Explorer were then able to handcuff Thomas C. Jones.

The father was booked into Calaveras County Jail on charges of battery on a peace officer, assault on a peace officer with a stun gun, resisting arrest, removing a weapon from a peace officer and public intoxication. His bail was set at $110,000.
His son was jailed on charges of assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer, battery on a peace officer, resisting arrest, removing a weapon from a peace officer and public intoxication. His bail was set at $125,000.

Koppi was booked into jail on charges of battery on a peace officer, resisting arrest and public intoxication. A 16-year-old girl was also arrested at the scene for public intoxication and resisting or delaying an officer.

Dittman was treated at Mark Twain St. Joseph's Hospital for multiple cuts and bruises to his head and neck.

The Explorers program is a division of the Boy Scouts of America devoted to exploring careers.
"This is not something we expect our Explorers to do," Seawell said.
Combat is not part of the program, he said.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on April 30, 2009, 06:29:21 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090430/ap_on_fe_st/odd_marching_band_beating  :-D
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Dog Robertlk808 on April 30, 2009, 09:15:33 AM
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090430/ap_on_fe_st/odd_marching_band_beating  :-D

Maija I just read that, hilarious and awesome!
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: matinik on April 30, 2009, 09:57:00 AM

for those who thought  marching band was nerdy in high school.....
 
From AP news

Thu Apr 30, 7:41 am ET

QUARTZ HILL, Calif. – Don't mess with a marching band girl, especially one armed with a baton. A 17-year-old high school marching band student beat up two assailants who tried to mug her as she walked to school in this high desert community about 40 miles north of Los Angeles, sheriff's officials said Tuesday.

The girl punched one of the men in the nose, kicked the other in the groin and beat both with her large baton before she ran away on Friday morning, officials said.

"The moral to this story is don't mess with the marching band girls, or you just might get what you deserve," said Los Angeles County sheriff's Deputy Michael Rust.

He said two men approached the girl from behind, grabbed her coat and demanded money. Deputies searched near Quartz Hill High School for the muggers, looking for a man who was holding his bloodied nose and the other limping.

No arrests have been made, but Rust said it appears the girl made her point to her assailants.

"Final score: Marching band 2, thugs 0," Rust quipped.  :mrgreen:  8-)
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: pau on April 30, 2009, 10:29:36 PM
Well i just found this.... i have not much to say just

this guys are nuts ore realy brave i just hope NO ONE gets hurt

you guys have a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da1ADqPplQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZH0oAFCxxw&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfxH7yoz7rc&feature=channel

(sorry for my sppeling)  :oops:

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 07, 2009, 11:42:31 AM
College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

“Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

“And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: ponytotts on June 09, 2009, 02:59:07 PM
or maybe the joke thread? improvised weapon thread, perhaps?  :?


http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,627139,00.html (http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,627139,00.html)
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 09, 2009, 04:31:17 PM
The Humor/WTF? thread on the SCE forum would have worked too, but not worth the bother to change it  :lol:

I'm having a hard time picturing how the goose allowed itself to get grabbed , , ,
Title: Retired woman cop chokes bank robber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 23, 2009, 09:38:44 AM
Woman puts man in sleeper hold, stops bank heist

Monday, June 22, 2009

(06-22) 20:09 PDT Mission Viejo, Calif. (AP) --
Cyndi Orel worked as a police officer for 25 years and never caught a bank robber. She was apparently saving that hobby for retirement.

The retired Long Beach police officer foiled a bank robbery at a grocery store Saturday when she put a 220-pound bank robber in a chokehold until he passed out. Orel is about 5 feet 7 inches and 128 pounds

"I never caught a bank robber," Orel said Monday at press conference held by the Orange County sheriff's office. "This was pretty exciting just because of the nature. You don't have time to think about it. You just react."

Orel was at the Mission Viejo Albertsons store when a bank employee shouted that a man with a gun was trying to rob the branch. As another shopper scuffled with the robber, Orel put a sleeper hold on him, blocking blood to his brain and making him pass out twice. Later, they discovered the man did not have a gun. (NOTE: certainly the possibility of things turning out differently was quite possible had he been armed).


Orel credited the man who helped subdue the robber, but sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said she was "being modest because if it wasn't for the control hold that she placed on him he would not have been rendered unconscious."

Orel said she learned the move at the police academy 28 years earlier, and only used it a few times during her years on patrol. She retired in 2006 but said she keeps active by running laps and lifting small weights.
Deputies arrested Tony Fennell, 52, of Las Vegas, who they believe committed eight to 10 bank robberies, Amormino said.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/06/22/state/n200930D89.DTL
Title: Tire Iron vs. Shotgun
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 30, 2009, 06:11:39 PM
http://www.newsday.com/man-killed-du...sion-1.1387525


Quote:
Man killed during Jonesboro home invasion
August 22, 2009 By The Associated Press

JONESBORO, Ark. (AP) — Jonesboro police say a man was killed after being beaten by a homeowner during an apparent home invasion.

Police say a man armed with a shotgun broke into the home about 11 p.m. Friday.

Witnesses told police the homeowner scuffled with the intruder before striking him in the head with a tire iron. The suspected intruder was taken to a local hospital, where he died.

No names were released, and a police supervisor did not immediately return a telephone message left Saturday by The Associated Press.

___

Information from: KAIT-TV, http://www.kait8.com/

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Title: Olympic shot-putter killed
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 01, 2009, 09:57:35 AM
Olympic shot-putter David Laut is killed at his Oxnard home
The 1984 bronze medalist is shot after confronting prowlers outside his house in what police say is a good area of town.
 
Shot-putter David Laut takes the bronze medal at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. After his glory days, he returned to Oxnard and taught in the local public schools. "He was a local boy who did well and came back to share his talents with the community," said neighbor Carter Laurie. (Tony Duffy / Getty Images)

 
By Catherine Saillant
 
August 29, 2009
E-mail Print Share  Text size

David Laut traveled the world as an Olympic shot-put medalist, but he never forgot his roots in Oxnard.

When his glory days ended, Laut -- who earned a bronze medal at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles -- bought a home in south Oxnard, taught in the local public schools and raised a son with his wife, Jane, his high school sweetheart.

About midnight Thursday, Laut, 52, stepped outside his home to confront prowlers and was gunned down, according to law enforcement officials and neighbors.

Police called to the scene found him lying in the side yard of his tidy beige-and-white stucco home, dead from multiple gunshot wounds. No arrests have been made and police have no suspects, said Oxnard Police Sgt. Ron Whitney.

The neighborhood of well-kept tract homes built in the 1980s is about two miles from the beach, and police rarely are called there for violent crime, Whitney said.

"I consider it a good area of town," the police sergeant said.

Neighbors and colleagues on Friday were reeling at the news that Laut, a 6-foot-3 "gentle giant," had been taken from them.

"It was an honor to know him," said Carter Laurie, Laut's next-door neighbor, wiping away tears. "He was a local boy who did well and came back to share his talents with the community."

Laurie said he had gone to bed early with a cold. But his wife heard three shots about midnight. The couple dismissed the disturbance as firecrackers until police arrived a few minutes later, Laurie said.

Laut had insisted that his wife stay inside while he checked on some noise in the yard, Laurie said he was told by Laut's mother-in-law.

Laut's wife "heard him say, 'What the hell are you doing here?' and then she heard 'bang, bang, bang,' " Laurie said.

Laut was athletic director at nearby Hueneme High School, a post he took a year ago, said Principal Adrian Palazuelos. Before that, he served for eight years as track coach at Hueneme High, and then left for one year to take a coaching job at a school in Ventura.

Laut's late father was a longtime science teacher at Hueneme High, Palazuelos said.

"His roots to south Oxnard and Hueneme go back fairly deep," Palazuelos said.

Laut had spent several hours on campus Thursday helping arrange sports physicals for students who would be starting classes next week, the principal said, adding that Laut was well liked by students and staff.

"He was a gentle giant, compassionate and student- focused," Palazuelos said. "And he was a competitor like no other."

Born in Ohio but reared in Ventura County, Laut played football, basketball and baseball at Santa Clara High School. But he excelled most at the shot put, winning two NCAA titles at UCLA.

He won a gold medal at the 1979 Pan American Games and picked up the bronze medal at the Coliseum.

Jim Kiefer, Laut's throwing coach at UCLA, called him a wonderful guy with a great sense of humor.

At one Pac-10 conference meet, Laut put the shot in the finals and walked out of the ring, thinking it was a poor effort. In fact, it was a winning distance, but he fouled by walking out of the ring. Kiefer warned him not to do that again.

"Then, he won the NCAA title and he ran over to me and he picked me up and had me over his head and I weighed 220 pounds. He just said, 'Wow,' " Kiefer recalled. "I remember what I said too. I said, 'Put me down.' "

Laut worked out every day in his garage, which he had converted into a gym, Laurie and other neighbors said. He was modest about his past sports accomplishments, said neighbor Chet Thomas.

"I never knew he was a medalist until somebody told me," Thomas said. "He never changed."

catherine.saillant @latimes.com

Times staff writer Bill Dwyre contributed to this report.
Title: Jew Jitsu!
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 11, 2009, 06:56:10 PM


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f8e_1252361650
Title: Samurai Sword Slays Intruder
Post by: Body-by-Guinness on September 15, 2009, 08:38:19 AM
www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bal-sword0915,0,4027961.story

baltimoresun.com

Hopkins student kills intruder with samurai sword, police say

Two laptops, PlayStation had been stolen from off-campus house Monday

By Liz F. Kay | liz.kay@baltsun.com

7:35 AM EDT, September 15, 2009

 
A Johns Hopkins University student armed with a samurai sword killed a man who broke into the garage of his off-campus residence early Tuesday, a Baltimore police spokesman said.

According to preliminary reports, a resident of the 300 block of E. University Parkway called police about a suspicious person, department spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said. An off-duty officer responded about 1:20 a.m. to the area with university security, according to Guglielmi. They heard shouts and screams from a neighboring house and found the suspected burglar suffering from a nearly severed hand and lacerations to his upper body, he said.

The suspect was pronounced dead at the scene.

The student told police that he heard a commotion in the house and went downstairs armed with a samurai sword, Guglielmi said. He saw the side door to the garage had been pried open and found a man inside, who lunged at the student.

Detectives were still interviewing the student and his three roommates Tuesday morning, Guglielmi said. Burglars had already stolen two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the student's home Monday, according to Guglielmi.

Dennis O'Shea, a spokesman for Johns Hopkins, said all four residents of the house are undergraduate students at the university.

The suspected burglar, whose name was not released pending notification of next of kin, had prior convictions for breaking and entering and had just been released Saturday from a Baltimore County facility, Guglielmi said.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: taoist-engineer on September 18, 2009, 05:26:23 PM
 Canadian ‘Glambo’ in red dress KOs elite trooper in party brawl
By Gerry Bellett, Vancouver SunSeptember 17, 2009
 
VANCOUVER — A petite Vancouver woman is being sought by an English court after she wiped the floor with a collection of Britain’s premier soldiers — the Coldstream Guards — during a brawl at a Christmas party in the guardsmen’s barracks last December.

Ashley Wolfe, 24, was tried in absentia this week at Woolwich Magistrates Court in London after failing to appear on two charges of assault — one involving a soldier’s wife, the other a sergeant she knocked cold with one punch.

After finding her guilty the court issued an international warrant for her arrest.

Wolfe, who stands five foot three, was wearing what the British press described as a “striking red satin dress” to the party.

She was accused of telling her victims “don’t mess with me, I’m a Canadian boxer.”

The melee involving Wolfe — dubbed “Glambo” by the British press — has attracted international media coverage.

But just what happened in the barracks that night is open to debate.

Ashley and husband Bill — who had part of his nose bitten off in the fight — told the Vancouver Sun Thursday that the allegations against her were false.

In a telephone interview from Hungary, the couple said her lawyer had sought an adjournment to the trial because she was sick with the flu earlier this week and a doctor advised her not to travel.

However, the request was denied and the trial went on, resulting in a guilty verdict.

“We want that overturned,” said Bill. “Our lawyers are requesting a retrial.”

The Coldstream Guard says that during a drinking session, Ashley took exception to what she perceived to be gay embraces among some of the soldiers on the dance floor, particularly the actions of Lance-Sgt. Michael Fallows.

She told police that “all these guys were kissing and humping each other — basically having sex with their clothes on . . . I pushed them apart because they were clinging to each other and told them it wasn’t appropriate.”

She told them such behaviour “shouldn’t be allowed in the British Army.”

This led to a confrontation between her and a number of other soldiers during which she pushed over a sergeant, Damian Holland.

Holland’s wife Joanne then confronted Ashley and was punched in the face. Ashley is then said to have cold-cocked Fallows, who was knocked unconscious.

At that point a general melee broke out involving the two Canadians and a group of guardsmen.

That was the uncontested version given to the court.

However, the Wolfes say a group of six sergeants attempted to get Ashley to join them in a sexually suggestive mosh pit on the dance floor, which she rejected.

“It had nothing to do with me saying anything about gays. They were acting disgusting — perverted, humping each other and they wanted me to join in their little sex acts on the dance floor,” she said.

“I told them it was inappropriate and then this blond girl comes from nowhere and starts pushing me (she denies hitting the woman) and I got punched out by her husband,” said Ashley.

“Her husband was yelling at me ‘you f——g Yankee bitch’ and punches me so hard in the head I fall to the floor. This is what started the fight. I got blindsided a second time and then this Sgt. Fallows came at me aggressively and I took no chances and beat him to the punch.”

Bill, a former Canadian Army regimental sergeant major, said they tried to entice his wife into lewd behaviour and when she resisted they told her to “f— off.”

“I said ‘don’t talk to her like that’ and they said ‘f— off Yank’ and I told them we’re Canadians. After that I said to Ashley we’re going to leave,” he said.

“Then Holland comes right over the top of his wife and hits Ashley in the face. She fell to the ground and I screamed because I thought she was dead. That’s when the soldiers jumped me. Holland’s wife had pushed him out of the way and two women came to Ashley’s aid. She’s dazed and gets up from the floor and this other guy Fallows was going to hit her when she clocks him with a left hook.

“It was beautiful. Down he went, unconscious,” said Bill who then became embroiled with four soldiers and Holland, who he says bit off the end of his nose.

Vancouver Sun

With files from the Daily Telegraph
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on September 23, 2009, 07:51:23 AM
Customer tackles bank robber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiTc2iNrHrk
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 23, 2009, 08:50:46 AM
 8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on October 09, 2009, 05:30:11 PM
Let's all hear it for #25!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLOmJxbYJ44
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: maija on October 19, 2009, 09:51:09 AM
VETERAN Melbourne defence lawyer Alex Lewenberg, who was viciously bashed this week by an intruder in his city apartment, has been in plenty of scraps - in and out of court.

As a kid in postwar Europe, the Russian-born Jew was forced to defend himself to survive in street fights, and learnt never to lie down.

He boxed as a 12-year-old in Poland, then fought in Czechoslovakia, Greece and Israel as a welterweight, a trade that ultimately helped finance his studies.
Alex Lewenberg, 68, was back at work a day after fighting off an intruder.

Alex Lewenberg, 68, was back at work a day after fighting off an intruder. Photo: Craig Abraham

In Melbourne over 40 years, he has built a reputation as a pugnacious and successful solicitor, who has tenaciously represented clients, from Billy ''The Texan'' Longley to Boris ''The Black Diamond'' Beljajev and anyone else seeking help.

He has also been stabbed, shot at and had his house bombed by the opposing sides in family law cases, was disqualified 20 years ago for professional misconduct and once was attacked in his office by a woman with a baseball bat.

Given his renowned resilience, recent matters have fallen like water off a rhino's back.

About 9am on Tuesday, Mr Lewenberg, now 68 and still no pushover, was attacked by a younger and fitter man who king-hit him with a fist fitted with a knuckle duster or weighted with rings in the fifth-floor kitchen. ''It was a beautiful right-cross from a short distance,'' Mr Lewenberg recounted yesterday to The Age, with knowledge not flippancy.

The blow smashed into the left side of his face, above his eye, but ''my boxing experience told me that if you are about to fall grab your opponent and hang on to him'', he said.

And hang on he did, but also landed blows in a bloody battle that lasted 20 minutes as the pair, locked together, wrestled across a polished black granite floor.

As Mr Lewenberg edged his attacker away from a row of knives towards a doorway and a lift, the man grabbed a sword from a standing suit of armour called Sir Dudley.

The pair burst through the door, the blade cutting Mr Lewenberg's arm, leg and body, then fell downstairs, and tumbling to the fourth floor.

With blood pouring from both men, the attacker bit Mr Lewenberg's ear. Then, after Mr Lewenberg grabbed his testicles, the man fled.

Back at work the day after, he suspects the attacker was not a local, while police, at this stage, believe it was not a ''disgruntled'' client.

Anyone with information can contact Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/lawyer-takes-out-thug-ballsandall-20091008-gp2a.html
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 07, 2009, 04:59:54 PM
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/07/audio-i-dont-want-to-have-to-kill-this-man-but-ill-kill-him-graveyard-dead/comment-page-1/#comments

Why it's better to live in a red state.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 07, 2009, 05:25:22 PM
http://newsok.com/woman-shoots-and-kills-intruder-in-lincoln-county/article/3422498?custom_click=rss

More on the shooting above.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Jonobos on December 07, 2009, 05:53:34 PM
Quote
Why it's better to live in a red state.

Not all of us "young liberals" are voting for gun bans... just so you know ;)
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 07, 2009, 11:18:29 PM
If you live in a blue state, the gun laws were voted into place long ago. Funny how crime has gotten worse with those laws in place.
Title: Roger Huerta
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 04, 2010, 07:29:05 PM
 http://www.comcast.net/sports/writet...instreetfight/
And, there's also some video from TMZ.
http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=t...b-330a87db4f24
Title: Re: Roger Huerta
Post by: Stickgrappler on August 05, 2010, 01:34:33 PM
http://www.comcast.net/sports/writet...instreetfight/
And, there's also some video from TMZ.
http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=t...b-330a87db4f24

Beat me to it Guro. I was going to post on the UFC/MMA thread. This thread is much better suited.

I think the links/URL's came out bad.

The story:

http://www.tmz.com/2010/08/04/ex-ufc-star-in-bloody-street-fight-roger-huerta-austin-texas-video/

The video:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=06122435-fea9-4358-91eb-330a87db4f24
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 06, 2010, 02:17:41 AM
What is your legal reasoning there?
Title: Zuchinni vs. bear
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 23, 2010, 07:42:34 PM
Montana woman fends off bear attack with zucchini
This image provided by the Missoula County Sheriff's Office shows the zucchini used by a Montana woman to fend off a bear attack Thursday Sept. 23, 2010 in Frenchtown, Mont. The woman was stirred after midnight by a tussle in the backyard of her home near Frenchtown, Missoula County Sheriff's Lt. Rich Maricelli said. She went to investigate and found a 200-pound black bear attacking one of her two dogs, a 12-year-old collie.
MATT VOLZ
From Associated Press
September 23, 2010 8:06 PM EDT

HELENA, Mont. (AP) — A Montana woman fended off a bear trying to muscle its way into her home Thursday by pelting the animal with a large piece of zucchini from her garden.

The woman suffered minor scratches and one of her dogs was wounded after tussling with the 200-pound bear.

The attack happened just after midnight when the woman let her three dogs into the backyard for their nighttime ritual before she headed to bed, Missoula County Sheriff's Lt. Rich Maricelli said. Authorities believe the black bear was just 25 yards away, eating apples from a tree.

Two of the dogs sensed the bear, began barking and ran away, Maricelli said. The third dog, a 12-year-old collie that wasn't very mobile, remained close to the woman as she stood in the doorway of the home near Frenchtown in western Montana.

Before she knew what was happening, the bear was on top of the dog and batting the collie back and forth, Maricelli said.

"She kicked the bear with her left leg as hard as she could, and she said she felt like she caught it pretty solidly under the chin," Maricelli said.

But as she kicked, the bruin swiped at her leg with its paw and ripped her jeans.

The bear then turned its full attention to the woman in the doorway. She retreated into the house and tried to close the door, but the bear stuck its head and part of a shoulder through the doorway.

The woman held onto the door with her right hand. With her left, she reached behind and grabbed a 14-inch zucchini that she had picked from her garden earlier and was sitting on the kitchen counter, Maricelli said.

She threw the vegetable. It bopped the bruin on the top of its head and the animal fled, Maricelli said.

The woman called for help from a relative staying with her. They found the collie outside, unable to move, and took it to a veterinarian.

The dog appeared to be fine on Thursday, but the vet was keeping it for observation, Maricelli said.

The woman did not need medical attention for the scratches on her leg, though she got a tetanus shot as a precaution, Maricelli said.

Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks officials set up a trap in an attempt to capture the bear, the agency said in a statement.

Besides the nearby fruit trees, there wasn't anything on the woman's property that would attract a bear into the backyard, like garbage or livestock feed, wildlife officials said.

Maricelli interviewed the woman, but said the sheriff's office was complying with her wish not to identify her.

"She was very, very shaken, and it kind of took the humor portion out of it for me," Maricelli said. "She said it had this horrific growl and was snarling.

"(But) she can see the humor in it, and she wanted the story put out so the local residents can take precautionary measures," he added.
Title: How to recognize and fight a terrorist on a plane
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 02, 2010, 01:16:23 PM
How to Recognize and Fight a Terrorist on a Plane
by Randy Plante (more by this author)
Posted 01/05/2010 ET
Updated 01/05/2010 ET


The attempted bombing of Delta/Northwest 253 on Christmas Day was not the first from the Islamic terrorists nor will it be the last. Since I am a pilot, I have had people ask what can a passenger do onboard an airplane to help thwart a terrorist attack. Having personal experience with a few events myself, as well as reading articles and hearing stories from other crewmembers, I can give you some information which might assist you in dealing with a suspicious passenger or situation.

The first thing to realize is that there are a few different scenarios which the terrorists could be using on your particular flight. (Also realize that it could happen on any flight, not just one originating from a non U.S. location.) Options include testing TSA and law enforcement personnel, testing passengers and crewmembers, observation, dry run/practice, and actual execution of an attack. Of course it is hard to differentiate which scenario is playing out until after your flight lands, but it might assist you in recognizing the threat and knowing how serious your reaction should be if you know all of the options. In most of these instances, their job is to also scare you. Terrorists create terror. If you stop flying, they win. So be pro-active. Maybe something you do will cause them to call off the attack.

As a passenger you must be observant and vigilant. Most often someone notices some unusual activity or behavior. It doesn’t have to be just a person either. Suspicious bags, luggage, packages, notes, pillows, and electronic devices have been found on planes. One of the biggest advantages you have is the ability to profile. TSA refuses to do the obvious thanks to political correctness. Everyone knows who is committing these attacks -- Muslim, Middle-Eastern men between 18 and 40. Maybe al Qaeda is trying to recruit others than don’t fit this profile but it sure fits the mold right now.

Some things to look for: groups or pairs of men, a passenger talking to themselves, speaking Arabic, watching crewmembers (this is different than looking), staring at the cockpit door, long stays or multiple trips to the lavatory, reading a book but not turning any pages, nervousness, being unusual by trying to fit in, taking pictures/videos, not making eye contact. When you are at the boarding area and on the plane if you notice a suspicious passenger, look for others. How many? If it is one or two then they could be planning on bombing the aircraft or just making observations of crew procedures. 6 or more? Then this cell’s objective would be hijacking the plane by brute force. Also remember that there are sleepers that try to blend in with the other passengers and could be very hard to notice. A website reports a well-dressed man in custody that was also a passenger on Delta Flight 253. After an incident, your entire plane might be delayed for security and they will treat everyone as suspects. Also expect the government and airline to try to cover up parts or all of an event.

A recent example of a possible test occurred on Nov 17 with an Airtran flight from Atlanta to Houston. Eleven Muslim men got on the plane and caused a big disturbance and ended with passengers assisting the flight attendants in the commotion. TSA was called, they took the men off, talked to them, and put them back on. The crewmembers walked off the plane refusing to fly it, and then passengers walked off as well. The terrorists tested the TSA and passengers but probably also threatened lawsuits to the government and Airtran. This could be setting up a later mission with hopes the TSA and airline would be afraid to take them off the plane. Just like the Delta flight, the final layer of security, the crewmembers and passengers, are the ones who might have prevented an attack, nothing the government did was successful.

The best time to do something is prior to boarding and before the aircraft pushes back from the gate while the door is still open. This is when you have some control in the situation and easier for the captain to get involved. Before you board you can talk to a TSA employee or gate agent and explain your concerns. The gate agents are usually very busy and might give you the brush off. Talk to other passengers. While on the plane you will have to find a flight attendant, which could prove difficult because at times the boarding process can be quite chaotic. If one flight attendant seems to ignore you then talk to the other one. Maybe ask to see the captain. Write a note. If you are really scared, grab your bags, say you are sick, and get off the plane. Some crewmembers can be just as ignorant about the serious nature of the threat as our government officials. One time after a flight years ago a flight attendant asked me what the captain did about the suspicious passenger. She had called the cockpit inflight to report the behavior to the captain (since retired) and he neglected to tell me anything and did nothing.

While seated look for able-bodied men, military personnel, or deadheading crew to assist you. Maybe you notice a suspicious passenger but do not feel it warrants a visit with TSA/Flight Attendant or it happens inflight . Volunteer yourself or change seats on your own to sit next to or right behind any suspicious passengers. A recent crew moved a soldier to sit next to a nervous Middle-Eastern passenger before pushback. Once while I was deadheading in coach during a flight, the captain told the flight attendant to move me next to a suspicious passenger.

Once airborne there are limited options. Talking to the flight attendants and moving seats is basically all you can do. A divert takes time and would be a major emergency. On the flight I diverted for security issues we had an F-16 on our tail, ready to shoot us down if we didn’t immediately land.

If an actual attack occurs, then all bets are off. Take Action! DO NOT wait for crewmember instruction! This is a life or death situation. The terrorists will be hoping for the element of surprise. You will probably die anyways if the terrorists are successful so you might as well die giving them a fight. If it is a hijacking, block the aisles and do not let them get to the cockpit. For a bombing, jump on the passenger and separate him from the ignition source. For a suspicious package, box, etc. there is a place on the plane to move it to, but do not move it until necessary and with guidance from the crew.

The airlines are doing their best just to stay in business with the recession, bad weather, tough competition, and low fares. The employees are very frustrated with pay cuts, long hours, full planes, grumpy customers and poor morale. The commercial aviation system wasn’t designed to fight terrorists. And don’t necessarily blame the TSA and law enforcement agencies. They have some really hard working personnel trying to protect us. It is the policies implemented by people working in the U.S. government that is the problem, and amazing enough, it is the federal government that is required by law to defend us by the U.S. constitution. So what do they do? President Obama decides to take legal action against CIA employees for using special interrogation techniques to obtain information from terrorists to keep us safe. It was an obvious emotional, liberal, political decision. This will only make it much more difficult for the intelligence agencies to do their jobs and recruit/retain top talent, as well as lowering morale.

Another government employee, the DHS Secretary herself, said after the 12/25 attempted bombing, “the system worked” when it was obvious to the world that it did not. The news media gave President Bush an amazing amount of grief for not connecting the dots with 9/11. Regarding the underwear bomber on Flight 253; his father warned the government, was on a watch list, paid cash for his ticket, no passport, no luggage. A third grader could have connected these dots. The Republicans had to undo the laws and policies enacted by the Clinton Administration that impeded communication between intelligence and law enforcement agencies while President Bush implemented new ones to protect us after September 11. Now Democrats are acting like it is September 10 again.

Government by definition is a bureaucratic monopoly. It is managed by politicians and career bureaucrats. Slow, inefficient, unaccountable. Lots of finger pointing, blame games, commissions, hearings, conferences, meetings, and reports, but do you know anybody that got fired after 9/11, Fort Hood, or any other government blunder? Deja vous with this security lapse? It feels like we are on a team that wants to lose. And I don’t like being on a team that likes losing and neither does millions of people across the United States.

Unfortunately, until the Obama administration, Congress, and our government officials get serious with national security and the war on terrorism, then what we will lose is more of our freedoms and the lives of more American citizens.

Randy Plante is a former Air Force Captain and F-111 pilot. He flew a C-130 with the Air National Guard and served two tours in the Bosnian War. Currently Mr. Plante is a Captain with 19 years at a major airline.

======
Picture these guys shaved and in a suit, and ready to die as a part of killing you.  Are you ready?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfQ1ps6QXog
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 02, 2010, 01:24:37 PM
"TSA refuses to do the obvious thanks to political correctness."

**No, TSA refuses to do it because of the DOJ.**

GUIDANCE REGARDING THE USE OF RACE BY FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES

U.S. Department of Justice
Civil Rights Division

GUIDANCE REGARDING THE

USE OF RACE BY FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES

June 2003

INTRODUCTION AND EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

In his February 27, 2001, Address to a Joint Session of Congress, President George W. Bush declared that racial profiling is "wrong and we will end it in America." He directed the Attorney General to review the use by Federal law enforcement authorities of race as a factor in conducting stops, searches and other law enforcement investigative procedures. The Attorney General, in turn, instructed the Civil Rights Division to develop guidance for Federal officials to ensure an end to racial profiling in law enforcement.

"Racial profiling" at its core concerns the invidious use of race or ethnicity as a criterion in conducting stops, searches and other law enforcement investigative procedures. It is premised on the erroneous assumption that any particular individual of one race or ethnicity is more likely to engage in misconduct than any particular individual of another race or ethnicity.

Racial profiling in law enforcement is not merely wrong, but also ineffective. Race-based assumptions in law enforcement perpetuate negative racial stereotypes that are harmful to our rich and diverse democracy, and materially impair our efforts to maintain a fair and just society. (1)

The use of race as the basis for law enforcement decision-making clearly has a terrible cost, both to the individuals who suffer invidious discrimination and to the Nation, whose goal of "liberty and justice for all" recedes with every act of such discrimination. For this reason, this guidance in many cases imposes more restrictions on the consideration of race and ethnicity in Federal law enforcement than the Constitution requires. (2) This guidance prohibits racial profiling in law enforcement practices without hindering the important work of our Nation's public safety officials, particularly the intensified anti-terrorism efforts precipitated by the events of September 11, 2001.

I. Traditional Law Enforcement Activities. Two standards in combination should guide use by Federal law enforcement authorities of race or ethnicity in law enforcement activities:

    * In making routine or spontaneous law enforcement decisions, such as ordinary traffic stops, Federal law enforcement officers may not use race or ethnicity to any degree, except that officers may rely on race and ethnicity in a specific suspect description. This prohibition applies even where the use of race or ethnicity might otherwise be lawful.
    * In conducting activities in connection with a specific investigation, Federal law enforcement officers may consider race and ethnicity only to the extent that there is trustworthy information, relevant to the locality or time frame, that links persons of a particular race or ethnicity to an identified criminal incident, scheme, or organization. This standard applies even where the use of race or ethnicity might otherwise be lawful.

II. National Security and Border Integrity. The above standards do not affect current Federal policy with respect to law enforcement activities and other efforts to defend and safeguard against threats to national security or the integrity of the Nation's borders, (3) to which the following applies:

    * In investigating or preventing threats to national security or other catastrophic events (including the performance of duties related to air transportation security), or in enforcing laws protecting the integrity of the Nation's borders, Federal law enforcement officers may not consider race or ethnicity except to the extent permitted by the Constitution and laws of the United States.

Any questions arising under these standards should be directed to the Department of Justice.
Title: Pizza goes boom boom
Post by: prentice crawford on October 03, 2010, 11:18:47 AM
Woof,
 Conceal Carry in action:

      www.thetimesnews.com/articles/robbers-37314-charlotte-shot.html (http://www.thetimesnews.com/articles/robbers-37314-charlotte-shot.html)

                        P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Kaju Dog on October 03, 2010, 01:55:44 PM
Woof,
 Conceal Carry in action:

      www.thetimesnews.com/articles/robbers-37314-charlotte-shot.html (http://www.thetimesnews.com/articles/robbers-37314-charlotte-shot.html)

Good story...  IMHO CCW's permits are something that those with clean records and especially prior LEO or related training should be automatic.

Even the playing field.

                        P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on October 03, 2010, 02:24:06 PM
Woof,
 The shame is that the guy will more than likely get fired by Pizza Hut.
                          P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on October 04, 2010, 12:11:25 PM
Personally, I'm in favor of concealed carry.

But, this employee should be fired.  Company Policy is very clear.  The increased corporate
liability of someone innocent getting hurt by a company employee with a gun is too great.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Scurvy Dog on October 04, 2010, 07:55:05 PM
Well, even if he gets fired at least he's alive. In the end, that's all that matters.  :evil:
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 06, 2010, 06:19:05 AM
I would tend to think that a business that forbids it's employees from using lawful self defense would then take on liability for any victimization they might suffer as the result of the policy. I'm not aware of any caselaw to that effect, however.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on October 06, 2010, 07:16:26 AM
Woof,
 If a company takes away a person's right to keep and bear arms and his right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness along with his right to self defence, then they should be liable if their policy results in the death or injury of one of their employees. But I'm with this guy; better to be fired than dead.
                                  P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on October 06, 2010, 07:40:01 AM
As Scurvy said, "Well, even if he gets fired at least he's alive. In the end, that's all that matters."
And Rarick said, it does sound like a "clear case of self defense".

I agree with these statements. 

But, he should definitely get fired.  The companies first responsibility is to the company.  And company policy was clear.

Let's look at a bank robber.  Should the teller's be armed and start shooting inside the bank? 
If innocents get shot - who is liable?
If the teller shoots a coworker - who is liable? 
(Heck even if there is no bank robbery co workers sometimes shoot each other and if their employer
allowed weapons at work - who is liable?)
If a bullet goes through the wall/window and someone dies - who is liable?

As for case law, I doubt if you will find any criticizing an employer for forbidding employees to have guns at work, but you will
find lot's of case law and judgment awards against companies where an employee's action with a weapon accidentally injured
an innocent third party.
Title: Victor Perez: Hero
Post by: G M on October 06, 2010, 07:27:12 PM
http://www.examiner.com/sf-in-san-francisco/hero-victor-perez-saved-kidnapped-girl-from-gregorio-gonzalez-fresno-police-say

Hero Victor Perez saved kidnapped girl from Gregorio Gonzalez, Fresno Police said

Fresno, California, police say an alert and courageous man, Victor Perez, rescued an 8-year-old girl Tuesday morning after she was kidnapped the night before.

Police say the suspect, Gregorio Gonzalez, 24, kidnapped and molested the little girl. They say he was a gang member.

The girl was held captive for 12-hours before she was rescued.

Police showed surveillance video of Gonzalez’s truck on the media and that ultimately led to his capture and the girl’s rescue.

Perez recognized the truck from news reports and used his own car to cut off Gonzalez. Perez told KFSN-TV that it took him four tries before he was able to stop the truck

Perez said,  "At first, I didn't know if it was him or not but when he took off, I kept up with him and I cut him off three times until I caught up with him here. And I told him, that ain't your little girl man."

Gonzalez pushed the girl out of his truck and took off, Perez said. He called police while he stayed with the girl. About 40 minutes later, the California Highway Patrol later spotted the Gonzalez’s truck and arrested him without incident.

Fresno police say that in about 90% of similar cases, children are killed by their kidnappers within 24 hours.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Dog Howie on October 13, 2010, 01:14:15 AM
Guns in the work place? Not in mine. I run a small business and take the safety of the work environment very seriously. I have been in business for many decades and have seen time and time again pressured employees get to some point if temper loss. I am referring not only to "minimum wage" level employees but also "career" level employees making salaries that would dwarf most of ours. Employees get angry sometimes like when they butt heads with a fellow worker, when their pride is injured because of (even legit) criticism or if they need to be terminated. There is an incredible amount if genetic-based emotion that often displays during a termination or when an employee even thinks/feels their job is being threatened.... their jobs represent their ability to support their lives. These emotions very often defy logic.

One if the benefits of real contact fighting like we do at a Dog Brothers Gathering is that our emotions and our adrendline respond to the fight as if it were a real life or death confrontation even tho intellectually we know our opponent us not intending on killing us. There is a similar phenomena that happens when an employee is, for example, inside a termination process; even tho their lives and family are not really being physically  threatened they FEEL and often ACT exactly like that. Same happens sometimes when they find themselves working with a more talented co-worker and their competitive genetics cause them to feel threatened.

The truth is that the intensity of hardly any if these "feelings" are justified but, again,  bodies can respond in ways that are unpredictable ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IMHO, people are rarely trained in understanding the adrendline state.

Weapons and employees are an EXTREMELY bad idea. The average American employee is unfamiliar with most any bladed weapon or side arm or whatever and therefore are naturally fearful of them because they are what they appear to be... dangerous. Just because a lot of us have training surrounding weapons or are simply exposed and accustomed to some doesn't
Mean the average Joe or Jane is.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Dog Howie on October 13, 2010, 01:32:07 AM
Any company that says that they would rather have you die than open them up to liability, is a company with hostile work environment policies...........
As a clarification, if you are using the phrase "hostile work environment" to underscore your point then I follow you. However the legal definition and even the intent if the regulations surrounding a hostile work environment have nothing to do the matters of this discussion but are intended, in most situations, to address racial and gender related issues. Thus IMHO, use of the phrase outside of the legislative/legal intent of it dilutes the understanding of the language.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on December 12, 2010, 10:37:47 AM
Woof,
 
 www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/12/customer-shoots-kills-robber-at-la-tan.html

 Sometimes the tables get turned but wouldn't it be better if the customer already had his own gun? The customer didn't have a choice in this case because it happened in gun ban crazy Chicago. He's not going to be charged because he did act in selfdefense even though the guy he shot and killed was unarmed but that's because the gun he used was the robbers gun. Had he used his own gun even if the robber still had his, he would probably be charged with murder. This is how upside down thinking gun haters operate. It makes no sense at all. Well meaning and not so well meaning idiots pass gun bans to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Criminals have guns because they ignore gun bans (go figure, they're criminals), lawabiding citizens don't have guns because they obey the bans (go figure, they're lawabiding), and when a defenseless lawabiding unarmed citizen is attacked they have to risk just standing there and being shot or take the attackers gun away, if they manage to do this, then and only then is it O.K. that they have a gun and use it to defend themselves with. Let's just all go and bang our heads against a wall. The fact that this criminal was so use to people not fighting back that he thought he could take his gun back, shows the level of safety that criminals in these gun ban or as I like to call them 'criminal protection zones', feel.  :-P
                                                                P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 12, 2010, 10:49:02 AM
The left doesn't care about what actually works to reduce crime, the gun laws make them feel good. That's what is important to them.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on December 16, 2010, 08:57:59 AM
Woof,
 What ya frying granny?

 www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40685243/ns/us_news_weird_news/?gt1=43001

                           P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on December 17, 2010, 04:03:09 AM
Woof,
 Three on one and one wins!

 www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40713870/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40713870/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts)
                                   P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Scurvy Dog on December 17, 2010, 12:52:30 PM
 :-D

I was just watching the same thing.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7848006

Hope the guy is ok.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on December 17, 2010, 01:03:46 PM
Got to love a state where CCW is available and self defense is readily recognized. I hope this guy recovers quickly.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on January 10, 2011, 08:52:08 AM
Woof,
 The media isn't covering it but one of the guys that tackled the AZ shooter was armed and said he was inside the Safeway when he heard the gunfire. He took the safety off his weapon and went outside and got to the guy just as he ran out of ammo and instead of shooting him he just grabbed him along with another guy. So much for the smear the Left puts on concealed carry people as being vigilantes.
                                  P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 10, 2011, 09:15:15 AM
Good news-- you have a citation on that so I can play it forward?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on January 10, 2011, 09:29:41 AM
Woof,
 It was on Fox News channel and I have looked for it being mention anywhere else and it has not been reported on. :x And I'll correct myself that the guy was in the near by Walgreens not Safeway and add that he saw the shooter's weapon's slide was locked back and went for the tackle.
                                P.C.
Title: Media Blackout of Conceal Carry Hero
Post by: prentice crawford on January 10, 2011, 09:43:45 AM
Woof,
 An update, the other guy that help bring the shooter down was retired military...

         www.wnep.com/wnep-schyl-man-tackled-az-gunman-schuylkill-ties,0,7811918.story

                                        P.C.
Title: Armed Citizen
Post by: prentice crawford on January 11, 2011, 07:14:06 AM
Woof,
 Here is the guy that was packing... scroll down to the interview with the title, One of the men who subdued Longhner had a gun, and he was ready to use it.

 http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/author/fox-and-friends/

 Note that when he came up to the scene it wasn't the shooter that had the gun anymore but he didn't know that and seeing the gun was empty grabbed that guy first. This shows even better judgement and control on his part in that he didn't inadvertently shoot a innocent man with the gun. I think if he had been there when the shooting first started and hadn't been shot himself at the first, he may have prevented some of the deaths but not all. I still think it speaks very highly as to how responsible he was as a conceal carry citizen.

                                 P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 11, 2011, 08:06:40 AM
Yes, very sound work by this man.

I loved the slack-jaw response of the blondie when he answered in the affirmative about having a gun with him and being ready to use it.
Title: POTH on the killer
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 12, 2011, 02:19:17 AM
TUCSON — The police were sent to the home where Jared L. Loughner lived with his family on more than one occasion before the attack here on Saturday that left a congresswoman fighting for her life and six others dead, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department said on Tuesday.

A spokesman, Jason Ogan, said the details of the calls were being reviewed by legal counsel and would be released as soon as the review was complete. He said he did not know what the calls were about — they could possibly have been minor, even trivial matters — or whether they involved Jared Loughner or another member of the household.

A friend of Mr. Loughner’s also said in an interview on Tuesday that Mr. Loughner, 22, was skilled with a gun — as early as high school — and had talked about a philosophy of fostering chaos.

The news of police involvement with the Loughners suggests that county sheriff’s deputies were at least familiar with the family, even if the reason for their visits was unclear as of Tuesday night.

The account by Mr. Loughner’s friend, a rare extended interview with someone close to Mr. Loughner in recent years, added some details to the emerging portrait of the suspect and his family.

“He was a nihilist and loves causing chaos, and that is probably why he did the shooting, along with the fact he was sick in the head,” said Zane Gutierrez, 21, who was living in a trailer outside Tucson and met Mr. Loughner sometimes to shoot at cans for target practice.

The Loughner family released a statement on Tuesday, its first since the attacks, expressing — in a six-line document handed to reporters outside their house — sorrow for the losses experienced by the victims and their families.

“It may not make any difference, but we wish that we could change the heinous events of Saturday,” the statement said. “There are no words that can possibly express how we feel. We wish that there were, so we could make you feel better.”

The new details from Mr. Gutierrez about Mr. Loughner — including his philosophy of anarchy and his expertise with a handgun, suggest that the earliest signs of behavior that may have ultimately led to the attacks started several years ago.

Mr. Gutierrez said his friend had become obsessed with the meaning of dreams and their importance. He talked about reading Friedrich Nietzsche’s book “The Will To Power” and embraced ideas about the corrosive, destructive effects of nihilism — a belief in nothing. And every day, his friend said, Mr. Loughner would get up and write in his dream journal, recording the world he experienced in sleep and its possible meanings.

“Jared felt nothing existed but his subconscious,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “The dream world was what was real to Jared, not the day-to-day of our lives.”

And that dream world, his friend said, could be downright strange.

“He would ask me constantly, ‘Do you see that blue tree over there?’ He would admit to seeing the sky as orange and the grass as blue,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “Normal people don’t talk about that stuff.”

He added that Mr. Loughner “used the word hollow to describe how fake the real world was to him.”

As his behavior grew more puzzling to his friends, he was getting better with a pistol. Starting in high school, Mr. Loughner honed his marksmanship with a 9-millimeter pistol, the same caliber weapon used in the attack Saturday, until he became proficient at handling the weapon and firing it quickly.

“If he had a gun pointed at me, there is nothing I could do because he would make it count,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “He was quick.”

He also said that Mr. Loughner had increasing trouble interacting in social settings — during one party, for instance, Mr. Loughner retreated upstairs alone to a room and was found reading a dictionary.

Jared Loughner’s retreat — whether into the desert with his gun, or into the recesses of his dreams — coincided with a broader retreat by the Loughner family that left them increasingly isolated from their community, neighbors said.

===========

 



His father, Randy, once more of a presence in their mostly working-class neighborhood in northwest Tucson as he went off to work as a carpet-layer and pool-deck installer, became a silent and often sullen presence.

One neighbor, George Gayan, who said he had known the family for 30 years, described a kind of a gradual “pulling back” by the family.
“People do this for different reasons,” said Mr. Gayan, 82. “I don’t know why.”

Some years ago, Randy Loughner built a wall to shield the side porch of the family’s home. Because of his often bellicose attitude, neighbors sometimes kept their distance.

Leslie Cooper owns the house next door, where her son and his family live. She recounted a time when her grandchildren would not chase after a ball that landed in the Loughners’ backyard.

“They had to buy a new one,” said Ms. Cooper, who was told of the incident by her son. “I’d tell my son, those are not normal people over there — there’s a reason why they stick to themselves,” she said, adding that she had warned him to steer clear of Randy Loughner.

“I said, be careful around that guy — don’t get him angry,” she added.

Other people in the neighborhood, though, said they saw glimpses of compassion in the Loughner family, and an ability to reach out to others, sometimes unexpectedly.

Richard Mckinley, 41, whose mother lives down the street from the Loughners, said his mother appreciated how Randy and Amy Loughner were among the first people to visit when her husband died two years ago.

“They were some of the first people to pay respects,” he said.

In contrast to the reputation of his father, Jared Loughner’s mother, Amy, is considered pleasant but reserved by those who know her.

She commuted about an hour each day to her job managing Agua Caliente Park, an area of spring-fed ponds surrounded by giant palm trees in the desert on the outskirts of Tucson. The impeccably maintained park was quiet Tuesday, but for the chirping of the dozens of species of birds that call it home and the occasional crunch of a birder’s hiking boots along the trails.

Donna DeHaan, a former board member of the nonprofit group that helps support the park, said Ms. Loughner was a reliable manager with a good background in environmental issues. Ms. DeHaan said she never spoke about her family but was always pleasant, if a tad quiet and shy.

Mr. Gutierrez said he sensed very little communication within the family when he was among them.

“Every time I met his parents they were kind of quiet and estranged,” he said. Jared Loughner did not complain about his parents, Mr. Gutierrez said, and seemed to simply accept the lack of interaction as a fact of life.

“Jared really did not talk to his parents or talk about them,” Mr. Gutierrez said. “I felt they were not really good reaching out and he was not good at reaching out to his parents.”

After his arrest for possession of drug paraphernalia in 2007, Mr. Loughner was ordered to attend a diversion program run by the county attorney’s office. The chief deputy county attorney, Amelia Craig Cramer, said the program is intended for first-time offenders who have no history of violence or serious mental illness.

Mr. Loughner was referred to an approved drug education program, and completed the required sessions in 30 days.

But the program is primarily educational, Ms. Cramer said, focused on “the dangers of drugs and the dangers of substance abuse,” rather than the kind of in-depth counseling that friends, including Mr. Gutierrez, strongly felt that Mr. Loughner needed.

“It got worse over time,” Mr. Gutierrez said. He said he stopped talking to Mr. Loughner last March, when their interactions grew increasingly unpredictable and troubling.

“He would call me at 2 a.m. and asked, ‘Are you hanging out in front of my house, stalking me?’ He started to get really paranoid, and said he did not want to see us anymore and did not trust us,” Mr. Gutierrez said, referring to himself and another friend. “He thought we were plotting to kill him or steal his car.”
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on January 12, 2011, 08:03:22 AM
Woof,
 Sounds to me like the Sheriff wasn't very proactive in heading this guy off, he could have on a number of contacts with Jared, had him held for a 72 hour mental evaluation under AZ law. Jared's mother worked for the local government there, I wonder if the Sheriff just let things go because of that. The AP has revealed that the Sheriff has been the source of the leaked writtings found at the Loungher's home. To date those snippets are: I planned ahead, My assassination, Giffords, and the latest one Die B....
 It seems to me that he is intentionally putting this out to prop up his assertions that Jared was acting out of political hate whipped up by political rhetoric from the Right. I find it to reprehensible and appalling that a law enforcement official would leak evidence that could harm the case against this man just to support his personal political agenda of smearing the Right, especially a case that may involve the death penally.
                                               P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on January 12, 2011, 10:09:35 AM
P.C. wrote: " Sounds to me like the Sheriff wasn't very proactive in heading this guy off, he could have on a number of contacts with Jared, had him held for a 72 hour mental evaluation under AZ law."

I was carefully trying to think of what in gun law could or should have stopped this pyscho's purchase without destroying everyone else's rights.  But first you would have to mark this sick man with a searchable record of what he had become.  A background check wouldn't pick anything up if his friends, family, teachers and even the sheriff all had looked the other way.

I drove a bipolar woman against her will to the emergency room during an episode.  She thought she was going to see her doctor, but he had said to take her to the emergency room.  The doctor there heard and ignored my concerns, declared her no threat, prescribed her a narcotic and she was back in the same emergency room the next day this time with the 72 hour hold followed with criminal charges for killing someone with her car.  For about 3/4 of a second I gave that same doctor an icy stare I think he will remember. 

A slippery slope but somewhere we need to look into what your rights are or are not, as people around you see your grip on reality deteriorating.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: The Tao on January 12, 2011, 10:25:30 AM
A slippery slope but somewhere we need to look into what your rights are or are not, as people around you see your grip on reality deteriorating.

Life will never be safe. We all have people around us every day, that could hurt us, criminals, loners with nothing to lose, or people that are just angry and crazy. We will never stop them because we can't arrest people preemptively. To do so would result in a police state resembling the Cheka. This is why it is so important that we all remain capable of defending ourselves. For thousands of years, we all are ultimately responsible for our own safety.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 13, 2011, 04:49:06 PM
PC,

The Pima county Sheriff is a douche.

Doug,

The federal law says if you are adjudicated mentally defective (ill), then you will be denied by Instacheck. If you have some degree of mental illness, but have not gone before a judge, then there is no legal reason to deny the purchase. To place a person on a 72 hr. psych hold, a peace officer or medical professional (in general, in most all states) must reasonably believe that the person is a threat to self or others or is gravely disabled, unable to care for themselves. You must be able to articulate why you believe this to be the case. You face both civil and criminal liability for seizing a person and not having a judge finding the seizure reasonable. To be adjudicated, after the 72 hr. hold, the shrink must go before a judge and have the judge sign off on an involuntary commitment to a psych facility. Now, keep in mind that a career psych patient that always voluntarily committed themselves to inpatient treatment wouldn't have the paper trail to prevent them from being able to purchase a firearm.

Z,

Yup.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: The Tao on January 13, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
Now, keep in mind that a career psych patient that always voluntarily committed themselves to inpatient treatment wouldn't have the paper trail to prevent them from being able to purchase a firearm.


That's odd. It was my understanding that the DOJ had access to any records, both criminal and psychiatric, that would preclude any ineligible person from having a firearm; meaning that obviously criminal records are turned over to NCIC and I'm reasonably certain that involuntary hold records are as well. Is the hang up the lack of law mandating that private sector psychiatrists are not required to break their patient's confidentiality in much the same way lawyers are barred from doing such?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on January 13, 2011, 05:35:48 PM
GM, I agree.  What I am getting at is that process needs to be possible and needs to be utilized.  These people need at some point to be identified and marked, as sufficient information emergess,  so they will fail the instacheck.  It isn't happening so we are bound to repeat this and lose rights ourselves.  Everyone who came in contact with him seemed to know of his mental health deterioration.  Like getting your elderly parents at some point to quit driving, there needs to be a mechanism that is used. In child protection we have what we call mandatory reporters. The doctor, teacher etc. are required to report possible evidence.  Very soon I think there will be bills floated in her name like we had with the Brady bill, further restricting rights of law abiding citizens. Maybe it will be forced tests for all in Obamacare with results in your government issued, embedded chip :-( if we don't quickly think of a better way.  Zen wrote: "we all are ultimately responsible for our own safety".  Please tell that to the 11 month old daughter I left out of the story, twice sent by separate ambulance to the emergency room in negligent crashes; the fatality was a woman properly standing in a median crosswalk.  After conviction for child endangerment and vehicular homocide and real time served,she is again driving and 'no threat', with no oversight.  Hopefully unarmed.

From the other posts I think we are looking in the same direction but need answers.  There is a privacy issue and a liberty issue competing with a public safety issue.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 13, 2011, 05:41:53 PM
As I understand, unless there is a legal proceeding where a person is committed to a psych facility against their will, there is no disqualification from purchase/possession of a firearm. DOJ would have no way of knowing about anything else.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 13, 2011, 05:48:06 PM
Doug,

There is no easy answer. In the old days, state mental hospitals housed lots of seriously mentally ill people. They also housed people that might be eccentric or non-conformist or otherwise not deserving of being deprived of personal freedoms.

Now, even the seriously mentally ill get stabilized on meds and kicked out the door. Few mentally ill in the US stay in psych facilities long term, unless they have the financial ability to pay for long term inpatient care.

Keep in mind that lots of guns in the US trade hands while never getting near a licensed dealer with instacheck.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on January 14, 2011, 04:28:54 AM
Quote
author=G M link=topic=1447.msg44789#msg44789 date=1294969686]
Keep in mind that lots of guns in the US trade hands while never getting near a licensed dealer with instacheck.
Woof,
 Which brings us to citizens being responsible gun owners and sellers; I make sure I know the person I'm selling to or I sell it back to a dealer and I record their name and address and the serial number of the weapon. If anything comes back on that weapon it's still registered to me or in case of a dealer resale, the new owner. In any case the weapon can still be tracked down and this is why most guns used in crimes are tracked down. Even those sold at gun shows are tracked down because most sellers ask to see ID. The people who do sell guns in a irresponsible manner are crooks and it's up to law enforcement to catch them.
                               P.C.
                            
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on January 20, 2011, 10:16:19 AM
Woof,
 Have sword, will use. www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13863112

              P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on February 14, 2011, 03:27:36 AM
Woof,
 Well you certainly don't see that everyday....

     www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41573688/ns/world_news-asiapacific

                  P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JAK on February 17, 2011, 09:16:33 AM
Hey All,

Just wanted to share two stories with you all. 01NOV10 a man went to check an alarm coming from his neighbors apartment. When I arrived he met the BG in the driveway a scuffle ensued and he had his weapon taken from him and was shot three times and died. Second story. A few days before Xmas and families home was invaded by two scumbags. The Sb's took what they wanted and left. The father a Iraq war vet decided to go after them unarmed. He caught up with the two and was shot and killed for his trouble leaving his infant daughter fatherless.

Just something to think about.

JAK
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Vicbowling on February 18, 2011, 01:51:09 PM
WOW! I can't believe how detailed that was! I'm not sure if its always a good thing to release information like that - especially if someone actually died.

Long, but it has the 911 transcript

-------------

(CBS) The 911 call came from a Pasadena, Tex., resident, who alerted police to two burglary suspects on a neighbor's property. Before he hung up, two men were dead by his hand.

Joe Horn, 61, told the dispatcher what he intended to do: Walk out his front door with a shotgun.

"I've got a shotgun," Horn said, according to a tape of the 911 call. "Do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that - ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?" the dispatcher responded.

"Hurry up man, catch these guys, will you? 'Cause I'm ain't gonna let 'em go, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let 'em get away with this ----."

Shortly after, Horn said he sees one suspect was standing in front of his house, looking at it from the street.

"I don’t know if they’re armed or not. I know they got a crowbar 'cause that's what they broke the windows with. ... Man, this is scary, I can't believe this is happening in this neighborhood."

He gets more agitated. The dispatcher asks if he can see the suspects but they had retreated into the target's house, out of view: "I can go out the front [to look], but if I go out the front I'm bringing my shotgun with me, I swear to God. I am not gonna let 'em get away with this, I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm gonna shoot, I'm gonna shoot."

"Stay inside the house and don’t go out there, OK?" the dispatcher said. "I know you're pissed off, I know what you're feeling, but it's not worth shooting somebody over this, OK?"

"I don’t want to," Horn said, "but I mean if I go out there, you know, to see what the hell is going on, what choice am I gonna have?

"No, I don’t want you to go out there, I just asked if you could see anything out there."

The dispatcher asks if a vehicle could be seen; Horn said no. The dispatcher again says Horn should stay inside the house.

Almost five minutes into the call, police had not arrived.

"I can’t see if [the suspects are] getting away or not," Horn said.

Horn told the dispatcher that he doesn’t know the neighbors well, unlike those living on the other side of his home. "I can assure you if it had been their house, I would have already done something, because I know them very well," he said.
Dispatcher: "I want you to listen to me carefully, OK?"

Horn: "Yes?"

Dispatcher: "I got ultras coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house. And I don't want you to have that gun in your hand when those officers are poking around out there."

Horn: "I understand that, OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the First and you know it and I know it."

Dispatcher: "I understand."

Horn: "I have a right to protect myself ..."

Dispatcher: "I'm ..."

Horn: "And a shotgun is a legal weapon, it's not an illegal weapon."

Dispatcher: "No, it's not, I'm not saying that, I'm just not wanting you to ..."

Horn: "OK, he's coming out the window right now, I gotta go, buddy. I'm sorry, but he's coming out the window. "

Dispatcher: "No, don't, don't go out the door, Mister Horn. Mister Horn..."

Horn: "They just stole something, I'm going out to look for 'em, I'm sorry, I ain't letting them get away with this ----. They stole something, they got a bag of stuff. I'm doing it!"

Dispatcher: "Mister, do not go outside the house."

Horn: "I'm sorry, this ain't right, buddy."

Dispatcher: "You gonna get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun, I don't care what you think."

Horn: "You wanna make a bet?"

Dispatcher: "Stay in the house."

Horn: "There, one of them's getting away!

Dispatcher: "That's alright, property's not something worth killing someone over. OK? Don't go out the house, don't be shooting nobody. I know you're pissed and you're frustrated but don't do it."

Horn: "They got a bag of loot."

Dispatcher: "OK. How big is the bag?" He then talks off, relaying the information.

Dispatcher: "Which way are they going?"

Horn: "I can't ... I'm going outside. I'll find out."

Dispatcher: "I don't want you going outside, Mister..."

Horn: "Well, here it goes buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going."

Dispatcher: "Don't go outside."
On the tape of the 911 call, the shotgun can be heard being cocked and Horn can be heard going outside and confronting someone.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.

Then Horn is back on the phone:
"Get the law over here quick. I've now, get, one of them's in the front yard over there, he's down, he almost run down the street. I had no choice. They came in the front yard with me, man, I had no choice! ... Get somebody over here quick, man."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, are you out there right now?"

Horn: "No, I am inside the house, I went back in the house. Man, they come right in my yard, I didn't know what the --- they was gonna do, I shot 'em, OK?"

Dispatcher: "Did you shoot somebody?

Horn: "Yes, I did, the cops are here right now."

Dispatcher: "Where are you right now?"

Horn: "I'm inside the house. ..."

Dispatcher: "Mister Horn, put that gun down before you shoot an officer of mine. I've got several officers out there without uniforms on."

Horn: "I am in the front yard right now. I am ..."

Dispatcher: "Put that gun down! There's officers out there without uniforms on. Do not shoot anybody else, do you understand me? I've got police out there..."

Horn: "I understand, I understand. I am out in the front yard waving my hand right now."

Dispatcher: "You don't have a gun with you, do you?

Horn: "No, no, no."

Dispatcher: "You see a uniformed officer? Now lay down on the ground and don't do nothing else."

Yelling is heard.

Dispatcher: "Lay down on the ground, Mister Horn. Do what the officers tell you to do right now."
Two days later, Horn released a statement through an attorney.

“The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life," it said. "My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased.”

The identities of the men killed were released Friday.

They are Miguel Antonio Dejesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30. Official records show that each of them had a prior arrest in Harris County for drug offenses.

The men were reportedly shot at a distance of less than 15 feet.

A woman who lives nearby who asked not to be identified told CBS News affiliate KHOU correspondent Rucks Russell that she always saw Horn as a grandfather figure. "He is the guardian of the neighborhood," she said. "He takes care of all our kids. If we ever need anything, we call him.”

But according to Tom Lambright, Horn’s attorney and a friend for more than four decades, he’s the one in need now. “He just needs everyone to know he’s not a villain, he’s not a bad guy,” Lambright said.

He went on to say that Horn voluntarily gave an extensive video statement to police immediately following the shooting.

Horn was not taken into custody after the shooting. A Harris County grand jury will decide if charges are to be filed.

Lambright says Horn acted in complete and total self defense and has nothing to hide.

Local opinion has been passionate on both sides of the shooting.

One letter to the Houston Chronicle said, "He didn't shoot them in the legs, to make sure they did not run away, or hold them at gunpoint until police arrived. No, he was judge, jury and executioner."

Another letter writer praised Horn, saying, "Where does the line form to pin a medal on Joe Horn? I want to get in line." Another wrote, "Let's get rid of the police force and just hire Joe Horn!"

Support for Horn was also running about 2-1 in an online survey of readers on the KHOU Web site.

The incident may prove a test for a new law recently passed in Texas which expands the right of citizens to use deadly force.

Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

_________________________
park royal cozumel (http://"http://bookit.com/mexico/cozumel/hotels/park-royal-cozumel-all-inclusive-resort/")
Title: Man bites dog; burglar calls police
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 09, 2011, 12:51:42 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/08/oregon.intruder.911/index.html?iref=NS1
Title: 50 Japanese heros
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 16, 2011, 09:47:00 AM
RESPECT!!!
=====================

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/15/eveningnews/main20043554.shtml

The Fukushima 50: Not afraid to die
If the Fukushima nuclear plant's crisis is not calmed soon, Japan will need more brave volunteers to battle it


By Jim Axelrod


Since the disaster struck in Japan, about 800 workers have been evacuated from the damaged nuclear complex in Fukushima. The radiation danger is that great.

However, CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod reports that a handful have stayed on the job, risking their lives, to try to save the lives of countless people they don't even know.

Although communication with the workers inside the nuclear plant is nearly impossible, a CBS News consultant spoke to a Japanese official who made contact with one of the 50 inside the control center.

The official said that his friend, one of the Fukushima 50, told him that he was not afraid to die, that that was his job.
Title: Bones Jones & Friends part of the Unorganized Militia
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 20, 2011, 10:52:46 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Hours-before-biggest-fight-of-his-life-Jones-an?urn=mma-wp309

Bad luck for the wannabe car thief! :lol:
Title: Beauty Queen
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 22, 2011, 08:22:09 PM
Armed Beauty Queen Fatally Shoots Intruder in Florida Home Invasion
By Cristina Corbin

Published March 22, 2011

| FoxNews.com




Florida beauty queen Meghan Brown, right, shot and killed an intruder with her pink .38-caliber handgun during a home invasion March 12 (FoxNews.com).

When a burly ex-convict forced his way into a posh Florida home last week, he had no idea what awaited him -- a 25-year-old beauty queen with a pink .38-caliber handgun.

Meghan Brown, a former Florida pageant queen, shot and killed 42-year-old Albert Franklin Hill during a home invasion March 12 at the 2,732-square-foot house she shares with her fiance in Tierra Verde, Fla.

Hill barged into the home at around 3 a.m. after Brown responded to a knock at the front door, according to a police report. He allegedly grabbed the 110-pound Brown around her nose and mouth and dragged her to an upstairs bedroom.

The woman’s fiance, Robert Planthaber, said in an interview that he was quickly awakened by the altercation and ran to Brown’s side.

"I attacked him and took a severe beating to the head," Planthaber told FoxNews.com. "But I got him off of her long enough for her to scramble to the room where she keeps her pink .38 special.”

Brown, who reigned as the 2009 Miss Tierra Verde, snatched her gun from a nearby bedroom and shot the suspect several times – hitting him in the chest, groin, thigh and back, her fiance said. Hill was pronounced dead at the scene.

Panthaber, a 42-year-old arborist, said he believes he and his fiancee were targeted because of their wealth. He claimed a pizza delivery man and possible accomplice staked out the home for three months before Hill attempted to burglarize it.

“We live in a very prominent area and my fiancee wears a $60,000 engagement ring,” he said. “The pizza man knew we had money because sometimes we needed change for a $100 bill when he came to deliver pizza.”

Hill had a criminal record stretching back nearly three decades -- including arrests for burglary, battery, drug possession and grand theft. He reportedly served a 13-year prison term in 1987 and was released in September after serving a fourth term behind bars.

Detectives with the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Robbery/Homicide Unit are still investigating the crime but believe the motive was robbery, according to local press reports. They say they haven’t yet determined the relationship, if any, Hill had with the couple. A police report said the ex-convict demanded money before the altercation between Hill and Panthaber ensued.

Panthaber, meanwhile, said he and his fiancee are lucky to be alive. He said he purchased the pink handgun for Brown last Christmas and that the two had gone to target practice together.

“She was not a good shot at the range,” he quipped.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/22/armed-beauty-queen-fatally-shoots-intruder-florida-home-invasion/#ixzz1HNe89cvH
Title: BJJ teacher defends LEO
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 22, 2011, 08:21:39 AM


http://policelink.monster.com/news/articles/153440-video-jiu-jitsu-teacher-defends-officer-from-attacker?utm_source=nlet&utm_content=pl_c1_20110422_jiujitsu
Title: Kung fu for airline stewards?
Post by: ccp on May 04, 2011, 10:27:07 AM
I took martial arts lessons in the early 80's and the insturctor who taught a modified ishinru style thought Kung Fu was not "effective" at stopping people.  He said he only knew one perhaps tow Kung Fu experts he would feel confident could handle themselves in a real life situation.  I am no expert.  Just wondering if this would be the best style for airline employees to train in for self defense:

http://www.11alive.com/News/Odd/189551/186/Flight-attendants-learn-kung-fu-to-deal-with-unruly-passengers
Title: Brave Rabbi loses life in rescue effort
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 30, 2011, 01:09:16 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/selfless-rabbi-electrocuted-while-saving-8-year-old-boy-during-hurricane-irene/
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 09, 2011, 12:04:35 PM


A cowboy appeared before St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.

“Have you ever done anything of particular merit?” St. Peter asked.

“Well, I can think of one thing,” the cowboy offered.

“On a trip to the Big Horn Mountains out in Wyoming, I came upon a gang of bikers who were threatening a young woman. I directed them to leave her alone, but they wouldn’t listen. So, I approached the largest and most tattooed biker and smacked him in the face, kicked his bike over, ripped out his nose ring, and threw it on the ground. I yelled, “Now, back off or I’ll kick the crap out of all of you!”

St. Peter was impressed, “When did this happen?”

“Couple of minutes ago.”
Title: LA Times: Retaliation for good deed
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 14, 2011, 08:05:16 AM
Girl slain, 2 wounded in apparent retaliation for good deed
A Good Samaritan stops the beating of a woman down the street in San Bernardino only to have the attacker open fire on his house an hour later. The police chief vows to catch the killer.

 
Nylah Franco-Torres, 3, was shot in the head and pronounced dead at the hospital
By Phil Willon, Los Angeles Times
 
September 14, 2011
Fourteen-year-old Destiny Hull spent Tuesday morning mopping up dried blood from her grandmother's front porch, stains from an evening that began with an act of kindness and ended with an apparent act of vengeance that left a small girl dead and a pregnant woman and her young daughter seriously wounded.

The series of events in San Bernardino began Monday evening when a Good Samaritan who lived in the house — police won't say who for fear of tainting possible eyewitness accounts — saw a man beating a woman down the street, charged in and broke up the fight, allowing the woman to escape.

An hour later, the woman's attacker came to the male Good Samaritan's home and opened fire. Destiny's sister, who was five months pregnant, was shot in the jaw and neck, and bullets hit Destiny's two 3-year-old nieces in the head.

Destiny, overwhelmed by tears and fits of anger at the invading news cameras, stayed home from school to help clean up.

"I just can't believe this happened," she said, scrubbing the blood away from the porch, where the walls were pocked with bullet holes.

The shooting outraged residents of the working-class neighborhood. A large extended family lived in the home of Sophia Cardona, the matriarch who was inside cleaning and cooking tacos when she heard the shots.

Her grandson ran to the porch, scooped up the wounded children and drove them to the hospital.

"Whatever happened … was cowardice. He knew what he was doing and was trying to hurt someone. But he didn't have to hurt the children," Cardona said, breaking down in tears. "We lost one of our babies."

San Bernardino Police Chief Keith Kilmer called the shooting "tragic, senseless and despicable" and vowed to catch the killer.

"We will find you, we will seek you out and we will bring you to justice," Kilmer said at police headquarters, six blocks from where the shooting occurred.

The attack was the deadliest of four shootings overnight and through the morning in San Bernardino, a blue-collar town that for the last five years has worked feverishly to erase its image as a city with one of the state's highest levels of violence, attributed, in part, to an influx of L.A. gang members.

In the 1990s, the police officers association hawked "Murder City" T-shirts to raise money for a police memorial. But violent crime has dropped 40% since city voters approved a half-cent sales tax increase in 2006 for anti-crime programs.

"Just this week, I was talking to the police chief about the fact that we've had a remarkably peaceful summer in our fair city — 66 days of no homicides," Mayor Patrick Morris said. "And then the explosion came last night, and it was beyond tragic."

"Today, we'll come together as a city and find justice for this family," he added.

Cardona's neighborhood is one of many scarred by the crushing years of recession in the Inland Empire. The windows of the house next door are boarded up with plywood, and a "for sale" sign is posted on one. Empty shops dot the nearby retail strips.

"It's a bad area, it's a very bad area, and it's getting worse," said Janie Lopez, 58, who lives in an apartment across the street from the shooting site.

Lopez said Cardona's front patio is often crowded with family, and on occasion, she's seen police at the home.

Police spokeswoman Lt. Gwendolyn Waters confirmed that there have been "criminal issues at that house over the years," but emphasized that detectives believe this shooting was unrelated. "This was someone who was just trying to do a good deed," Waters said.

Police declined to release specifics about who they believe was the intended target of the attack other than to say that the gunman knew the Good Samaritan lived at the house.

The shooting happened about 7:45 p.m. Monday as the family was about to sit down for dinner and the kids were playing out front. The next morning, dolls were still lying on the concrete porch, along with three empty 40-ounce beer bottles.

Nylah Franco-Torres, 3, was shot in the head and pronounced dead at the hospital. Cardona said her great-granddaughter was a joyful child who didn't deserve such a violent fate.

"She was a sweet little girl. She loved going to the store. She was happy," Cardona said. "The first thing she did in the morning was turn on the TV and watch cartoons."

Cardona said her granddaughter La-Donna Howie, 21, and Howie's daughter Justine were the others wounded. Howie, who is five months pregnant, was listed in stable condition at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center in Colton. Her unborn child was unharmed and in good condition, police said. Justine was in extremely critical condition at Loma Linda University Medical Center with a head wound.

Police described the suspect as a black man in his early 20s, about 6 feet tall, weighing 160 to 170 pounds, with short dark hair.

"I'm concerned that maybe this man will not be found," Cardona said. "But we will keep going."

Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on September 14, 2011, 02:08:59 PM
"A man's attempt to stop an assault on a San Bernardino street led to a shooting that killed a 3-year-old girl and left a pregnant mother and her young daughter in critical condition, police said Tuesday."

"Officers urged the woman who was being beaten by the shooting suspect to contact police.
She has not reported the crime"


So one innocent 3 year old dead, two more in critical condition.  And the woman who was assaulted won't even report the assault or
identify the shooter.    :-(

Gee, I bet that Good Samaritan is happy he got involved....    :-(
And so is the dead little girl and two others critically injured.   :-( :-( :-(

We've had this discussion before on this forum, this is just another example of why it's better not to get involved unless
you or your immediate family are directly threatened.  Just call 911. 

http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_News_Local_D_webshootings14.150009f.html

Title: Heroic rescue of motorcyclist in UT
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 16, 2011, 10:59:23 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/sep/14/burning-car-rescue-motorcyclist-video
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on September 27, 2011, 07:50:55 AM
The only response is "We police ourselves"   :?

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fbi-jails-20110927,0,5914180.story
Title: This is worse than the Kitty Genovese case
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 18, 2011, 02:19:21 PM


Very disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVYUzHc5L8&feature=player_embedded#!
Title: Re: This is worse than the Kitty Genovese case
Post by: Hello Kitty on October 18, 2011, 04:22:49 PM


Very disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVYUzHc5L8&feature=player_embedded#!

That just pisses me off. WTF is wrong with people??:???
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: jcordova on October 18, 2011, 06:12:14 PM
My God!!! These people have no heart and soul :x...I felt so bad  for that little girl  :-(
Title: Re: This is worse than the Kitty Genovese case
Post by: bigdog on October 21, 2011, 03:22:02 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/asia/china-toddler-dead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 :cry: :cry: :cry:



Very disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVYUzHc5L8&feature=player_embedded#!
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 21, 2011, 02:38:36 PM
Indeed  :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: A trend that will continue
Post by: G M on October 25, 2011, 07:14:14 PM
http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs/articles/4540102-Justice-Dept-12k-cops-out-of-work-by-years-end/

Justice Dept: 12k cops out of work by year's end

Reductions will put law enforcement on pace for its first job decline in 25 years

By Kevin Johnson
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — By year's end, nearly 12,000 police officers will have lost their jobs, and 30,000 positions in county and municipal departments will go unfilled, both direct consequences of a faltering economy that has forced deep cuts in local government budgets.

The sweeping reductions, outlined in a Justice Department review to be delivered today to the nation's police chiefs meeting in Chicago, put law enforcement on pace for its first job decline in 25 years.

"The effects of the economic downturn on law enforcement agencies may be felt for the next five to 10 years, or worse, permanently,'' the report concluded, adding that the days when local governments allocated up to 50% of their budgets for public safety are "no longer a fiscal possibility.''
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on October 25, 2011, 09:47:09 PM
GM: "Justice Dept: 12k cops out of work by year's end"

The majority of public monies go to transfer payments.  Apply a little pressure on spending and they cut necessary services instead - the ones that hurt the people most in retaliation.  Don't let them do that.

My tenant last night had their house and persons ransacked while home in a brutal search for money they didn't have.  Response time from the police 1/2 block off the major nerve center in a volatile inner city neighborhood was 15 minutes after the fact, of absolutely no use.  2nd forceable entry in 2 weeks - while home!  The tornado of June was a walk in the park compared to human terror.  What do I tell them?  Good people should leave the city?  Then who is left?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 25, 2011, 09:54:45 PM
Doug,

Is there political gamesmanship in this? Yes, but there is also a real fiscal crisis. There will be less law enforcement in the future, prepare accordingly.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Hello Kitty on October 26, 2011, 11:55:31 AM
GM: "Justice Dept: 12k cops out of work by year's end"

The majority of public monies go to transfer payments.  Apply a little pressure on spending and they cut necessary services instead - the ones that hurt the people most in retaliation.  Don't let them do that.

My tenant last night had their house and persons ransacked while home in a brutal search for money they didn't have.  Response time from the police 1/2 block off the major nerve center in a volatile inner city neighborhood was 15 minutes after the fact, of absolutely no use.  2nd forceable entry in 2 weeks - while home!  The tornado of June was a walk in the park compared to human terror.  What do I tell them?  Good people should leave the city?  Then who is left?

I know of two forceable entries that would never happen again if the tenants had shot the perps.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on October 26, 2011, 02:29:20 PM
In the case of the first incident, they were unarmed crack fiends taking copper pipes, more scared than my tenant when they were caught.  Shoot 'em?  In the second case it was the perps who were armed and took full advantage of the element of surprise at 6:30pm on a week night.  Would you really be sitting there armed, loaded and waiting as they barge in?  If not, it is the perps who would have likely found and taken the weapon and ammo after they shot the dog and dragged the girlfriend around the house demanding to know where the money was.  How does that help prevent it from happening again?

I suppose you could shoot 'em before they enter but today it was me coming up to the door so I don't think I will recommend that.

Anyone else?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 26, 2011, 02:43:47 PM
Doug,

I'd point out states with "Make my day" laws, like Colorado have low rates of home invasions/occupied dwelling burglary calls.

Solid, secured doors and a plan to repel assaulters can make the difference.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on October 26, 2011, 03:28:28 PM
GM.  Thank you.  My understanding in our state unless laws have changed is that he would have been guilty of murder had he shot the first intruders.  In the second instance the tenants were totally overpowered.  They broke through a solid 2+ inch deadbolted door.  What then, more deadbolts, thicker chains?  Okay.  Most of the things I do to go further with extra security to windows and doors, metal caging over windows for example, are against city code because they also block easy exit in case of smoke and fire.  It was obvious from the outside the tenants had a dog and that meant nothing to them either.  They shot the dog.  I like motion lights and have posted a range of other steps I take, but intruders this determined would appear to stop at nothing.  They certainly didn't care if anyone was home.

It is our equivalent of illegal immigration, but the people who do this in our bad neighborhoods come here from some very worse areas of some much worse, midwestern cities.  Instead of putting up a fence, we pay them to come here.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 26, 2011, 03:35:10 PM
If someone is trying to breach your door, I'm assuming that there is a degree of delay, allowing for a response, yes?

Is it going to be enough time to allow law enforcement to respond? Probably not.

Enough time for the resident/s to arm themselves and move behind cover? Most likely yes.

Of course this requires a degree of training and planning. Something some are willing to do, and some are not.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 26, 2011, 03:41:23 PM
Shotguns have a great role in defending fixed positions at close ranges. Even birdshot from a 12 gauge is devistating within 15 feet or so. Most anyone can afford a shotgun and some training/range time with it.

If you live in a place with shall issue CCW laws, it's a serious mistake not to have one.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 26, 2011, 04:14:24 PM

Know the law in YOUR state!

http://dogbrothers.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=158
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on October 26, 2011, 10:16:45 PM
Thanks for those good replies and ideas. 

"If someone is trying to breach your door, I'm assuming that there is a degree of delay, allowing for a response, yes?" 

In this worst case scenario, no.  It was overwhelming force, door broken through, guns drawn, guns used - they shot the dog and held the gun to the woman, total surprise, no notice.

"Is it going to be enough time to allow law enforcement to respond? Probably not."

It was worse than that.  They didn't have a phone.  There wasn't going to be a call, much less a response, until going to a neighbor after the ordeal.  Very sad.
-----------
Offenses Recorded:  Burglary of Dwelling  -  Assault degree 2  -
Public Information:  Suspects kicked in the front door of the above address.  Suspects shot at V-1 and threatened V-2 with a gun.  Suspects are unknown.  Animal control responded.
Photos were taken and the memory card along with spent shell casings were property inventorie ...

Title: Hennepin County makes the right choice in Good Samaritan shooting
Post by: G M on October 29, 2011, 03:57:21 PM
**Ok, let's now unleash the ignorant assclowns to discuss how the poor felon shouldn't have died based on biased media reporting. Oh wait, the shooter wasn't a cop.


Nevermind.



http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/29/hennepin-county-makes-the-right-choice-in-good-samaritan-shooting/

Hennepin County makes the right choice in Good Samaritan shooting

posted at 1:15 pm on October 29, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

 
Give some credit to Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman, even if the outcome of the Evanovich case was nothing more than common sense. Darren Evanovich and his sister participated in an armed robbery outside of a grocery store in Minneapolis last week, which they concluded by pistol-whipping the middle-aged woman they robbed. A Good Samaritan chased after Evanovich, but Evanovich pulled the gun when he turned the corner. Unfortunately for Evanovich, the Good Samaritan had a carry permit and a handgun of his own — which he drew and fired after Evanovich drew first. Evanovich died almost immediately, and the question became whether the police and/or the DA would charge him with homicide.
 
Not only did Freeman decline to press charges, he commended the Good Samaritan for responding to “his fellow citizen in need”:


No charges will be filed against the “Good Samaritan” who shot and killed a robber two weeks ago in the parking lot of a Cub Foods store in Minneapolis.
 
That word today from the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office….
 
According to witnesses, the man drove up to the spot where he saw Evanovich going through the victim’s purse and asked him if he wanted to give the purse back.
 
Witnesses say that’s when it started to turn ugly–Evanovich pointed his gun at the “Good Samaritan,” and moved towards him.
 
The man in the vehicle pulled out his handgun and shot Evanovich.
 
Authorities say after they reviewed the circumstances, they determined that the man “acted in self-defense.”
 
Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said today in a press release, “While this man is to be commended for helping his fellow citizen in need, a note of caution is appropriate. We prefer that armed citizens do not chase after criminals. Too much can go wrong with deadly consequences.”
 
That’s actually good advice. As the late Joel Rosenberg wrote and taught, a carry permit is not a Junior G-Man badge. In those circumstances, people would be better advised to call 911 and let the police deal with the situation rather than confronting an assailant known to be armed. However, it was clear from the beginning that the Good Samaritan didn’t initiate the deadly threat, and that the perp was a dangerous person.

If all you knew about this case came from the local media, however, you’d never know that. My radio partner and carry-permit activist Mitch Berg has followed this case closely at Shot in the Dark, and has blasted the coverage this case received from local print and TV. That includes KSTP, which produced today’s much more balanced report, and WCCO, which gave Evanovich’s mother a sympathetic interview that made the claim that Evanovich was the victim. The Star Tribune printed a lengthy article that focused on Evanovich’s dedication to his community, which unsurprisingly left out a few details about Evanovich’s last few moments of life, and made it sound as if the Good Samaritan had just hunted Evanovich down like a dog.

In fact, here’s a great look at Matt McKinney’s “reporting” on this story:
 

The investigation ensnared Evanovich’s sister, Octavia Marberry, this week when she was jailed on allegations of fraud and aggravated robbery. She had been with Evanovich the night he died, and according to their mother, held him in her arms as he took his last breath.
 
She was “with Evanovich the night he died,” all right — she was an accomplice in the crime:
 

Authorities say they believe 20-year-old Octavia Marberry of Minneapolis has possibly been involved as an accomplice in this and two other store parking lot robberies.
 
According to the criminal complaint, on Thursday, October 20th, a 53-year-old woman was robbed just before 10:00 p.m. outside the Cub Foods on 26th Avenue and struck in the head by a gun held by the robber, 23-year-old Darren Evanovich.
 
Minneapolis Police say their investigation showed that at least two other people were with him and one of them was Marberry.

In fact, in the new KSTP report above, it sounds as though Octavia Marberry may have been the ringleader of this gang. The investigation didn’t “ensnare” her, as the Strib tries to frame it — Marberry was always at the center of it.

Given the kind of pressure that the local media tried to put on Freeman, his decision to do the right thing is all the more remarkable. Kudos to him, and jeers to the local media that tried to turn a victim into a criminal and the criminals into victims. They should be ashamed of themselves. They won’t be, but they should.
 
You can bet that Mitch and I will be discussing this on today’s NARN, so be sure to tune in.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DougMacG on October 30, 2011, 10:24:39 AM
Sounds to me like a simple case of self defense at the moment he made the shot.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/29/narn-the-self-defense-edition/

GM: "Ok, let's now unleash the ignorant assclowns to discuss how the poor felon shouldn't have died based on biased media reporting. Oh wait, the shooter wasn't a cop."

The local media ('ignorant assclowns') were in fact out drawing sympathy for the sister: "The investigation ensnared Evanovich's sister...She had been with Evanovich the night he died, and according to their mother, held him in her arms as he took his last breath."  http://m.startribune.com/news/?id=132754113&c=y

Very sad story except... she happened to be there as the accomplice, wielding the knife cutting the throat of robbery victim who also ended up with 2 black eyes. 

CBS affiliate draws more sympathy to the felon family, the deceased was the victim??

"MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — The mother of a robbery suspect who was shot and killed says her son was the victim.

A witness saw 23-year-old Darren Evanovich committing a robbery in south Minneapolis Thursday night. He chased Evanovich down and, after a confrontation, shot and killed him.

Evanovich’s family said the man who killed Darren was no hero.  “I was so scared,” said Mary Evanovich, the robbery suspect’s mother. “All I wanted was my baby, but I didn’t want it to be true.”

Evanovich is searching for answers as to why her son had to die.  “How can a person play judge, jury and executioner and God, who gave the person the right to be God,” Evanovich said.

Evanovich would not talk about the robbery or what role her son played in it.  “I can’t give no comments on that. I prefer not to actually talk about that part of it..."
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/dead-robbery-suspect%E2%80%99s-mom-%E2%80%98my-son-was-the-victim%E2%80%99/
-----------------
The deceased armed robber was talking 9 days earlier to troubled youth about taking a different route.  Great role model (sarc.) http://www.startribune.com/video/132756828.html
Title: Homeowner does what a taser can’t
Post by: G M on December 05, 2011, 04:28:37 PM
http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/47313

Homeowner does what a taser can’t
December 4, 2011 by Don Surber
 


A homeowner in Port Orchard, Washington, did what the police could not do: He shot and stopped a bad guy. Two police officers tried to stop the man with a taser. He managed to escape and they will spend 1-to-3 days off-duty recovering.
 
The 47-year-old man then entered the home of a man in his 20s, who fired one shot into the suspect’s belly and that ended that. The suspect was sent to St. Joseph’s Medical Center in Tacoma, where he is listed in stable condition.
 
The Kitsap Sun has the story.
 
Now I do not know all the details and the Washington State Police are investigating, but it seems to me that this may be another example of tasers being ineffective. They cannot subdue a criminal and if you use them on a protester, well, Don’t Tase Me, Bro, is a slogan on a T-short.
 
Maybe it is time to drop the taser in favor of the old-fashioned billy club. baton.
 
Pepper spray, too.
 
They don’t seem to be effective and they seem to get cops in trouble a lot. But I defer to the judgment of the guys on the line.
 
Linked by Glenn Reynolds. Thanks.
 
Changed billy club to baton out of respect to commenter Bill Gannon.
Title: Man tries to rob MMA fighter
Post by: JDN on December 07, 2011, 07:15:56 AM
It's nice to hear when the "victim" wins.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/12/chicago-man-beaten-when-he-tries-to-rob-mixed-martial-arts-expert.html
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: prentice crawford on December 08, 2011, 05:14:03 AM
Woof,
 Don't get me wrong, 911 is great and it's good to know that help is on the way. However, I would like to still be alive when they arrive.

            <iframe width="1280" height="720" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oTVX1b568cU?rel=0&amp;hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                                                P.C.
Title: Granny's go bang bang!
Post by: prentice crawford on December 08, 2011, 05:40:10 AM
Woof,
 Uh, bad guys, be aware that the cops might not get there in time to save your sorry ass.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/california-woman-shoots-intruder-911-call-15108694

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-5949873.html

 Oh, and a note to all those anti gun idiots out there that pretend that they are experts on self defense and who say that regular people, especially little old ladies with guns, will just be killed with their own weapon, well you're idiot's! :lol:

                                           P.C.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 08, 2011, 08:51:17 AM
As the saying goes "I carry a gun, because a policeman is too heavy to carry."
Title: 11 year old boy saves sister
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 09, 2011, 09:44:09 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIsOQ5_bPUQ&feature=share
Title: POTH: Costumed Crusaders
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 26, 2011, 08:45:04 AM
SALT LAKE CITY — Red Voltage and two of his masked crime-fighting colleagues were approaching an intersection here in Utah’s capital on a recent evening, walking night patrol on foot, when a car suddenly slowed next to them. The night was bitterly cold, laced with a wispy stew of fog that might or might not conceal a thousand dangers. The car’s window rolled down.

 “Hi, superheroes!” a woman shouted from within. “I’m in love with you guys!”
Eat your heart out, Batman. In a niche of urban life that has evolved in recent years somewhere between comic-book fantasy and the Boy Scout oath, a cadre of self-cast crusaders — some with capes, some without, all with something to prove — are on the march.
They prowl the night in Boston, in San Francisco, in Milwaukee, in Minneapolis, even as far away as Australia. Whether they are making the world safer or just weirder remains an open question.
Some go out armed with gear like mace, pepper spray or police batons; others say they carry only cellphones, aiming to be eyes and ears for the police, who in most cities, including Salt Lake City, are keeping a wary distance.
“We’re not endorsing them, supporting them, condemning them or anything else — we’re staying neutral and out of it,” said Detective Joshua Ashdown, a spokesman for the Salt Lake City Police Department. “The ones we endorse are the ones we have trained.”
Red Voltage, who in mild-mannered daytime life is a 23-year-old residential leasing manager named Roman Daniels, casually waved a gloved hand to his female drive-by fan. Clad head to toe in a red-and-black leather suit, his face covered by spandex, he is, he said, a different man when the mask goes on — a better man.
“But there are times when I’m putting the suit on, and I’m just like, ‘How crazy am I to do this?’ I do feel odd and out of the box,” said Mr. Daniels, who took over leadership of the group here, called the Black Monday Society, about six months ago, after two years of patrols. “But it’s good,” he added. “It feels really good — for the most part.”
Mike Gailey, a burly former bouncer at a strip club whose crime-fighting persona is called Asylum, said that for him, joining the Black Monday Society was partly about making amends for things in his past, like the time he spent collecting debts for drug dealers.
“I was a thug,” said Mr. Gailey, 31. “There are a lot of guys like me that have pasts they’re trying to make up for.”
Another Black Monday patroller described himself as a former gang member. The group’s co-founder, Dave Montgomery, a tattoo artist known in the street as the black-leather-clad Nihilist, said he was a former alcoholic who put on the mask when he stopped drinking.
That crime fighters would have issues is, of course, a time-honored tradition, too. Superman was sent to Earth by his parents. The X-Men are ostracized mutants. And let’s not even get started on the wealthy Bruce Wayne — he of the Bat Cave and Boy Wonder sidekick.
Some crime fighters have run afoul of authority. In Seattle, for example, a man in a muscle suit, Phoenix Jones, was arrested in October after the police said he pepper-sprayed some people while trying to break up a street fight.
Other masked avengers, past and present, have had very specific agendas in fighting societal ills. In the early 2000s, for example, a woman in New York, whose persona was Terrifica, took to patrolling pick-up bars in pink and purple spandex.
“She had apparently had some bad experiences with men,” said Tea Krulos, a writer in Milwaukee who is researching a book on what he and others call the “real-life superhero movement.” “Her mission was to warn drunk women that they might not be making good decisions.”
New attitudes about the police might also be affecting how the crime fighters are perceived. Here in Salt Lake City, for example, a Black Monday patrol going past the Occupy Salt Lake City encampment in a downtown plaza on a recent night was greeted very warmly. A nonpolice crime watch, several protesters said, is more than welcome these days.
“This is this exactly what needs to happen in the world — you know, why do we need police when we can help each other out?” said Poyce Denikma, 21, a former construction worker who is now a protester. “They’re setting an example, an amazing example, for what needs to happen.”
Other people who encountered the patrol were not so sure.
“I’m still thinking about it,” said Rebecca Vest, a Seattle resident who was in Salt Lake City for a friend’s wedding and had gone out for a walk. Ms. Vest said the incident in her city involving the superhero with the pepper spray had raised some worries.
“But I think sometimes just the presence of people helps, and they’re certainly not hiding in the woodwork,” she said, after posing for a photograph with the Black Monday patrol. “They’re right out there, going, ‘Hey, here we are.’ ”
Mr. Montgomery, or Nihilist, said masks were everywhere once you started to look. What is hidden and what is revealed by disguise, he said, is the basic psychology of a superhero’s life.
“It’s almost Freudian,” he said. “When you wear a mask, you’re actually able to become who you really are. It becomes kind of like a drug.”
He acknowledged that dressing up in what some might see as Halloween attire has at times made Black Monday patrollers a target for crime themselves, or at least abuse. But he said that intelligence and reason almost always defuse the occasional tension with drunks or other toughs who might see the patrollers as targets to be bullied.
“Once we start talking, they don’t really see us as chumps or dorks in suits,” he said.
Lately, though, Mr. Montgomery has been patrolling less and parenting more.
He has joint custody with his ex-wife of their 5-year-old daughter, Frankie, and Frankie stays with her father most nights. But on Thursdays and Fridays, she goes to her mother’s, leaving two nights off for suiting up and going on patrol.
“Got your blankey?” he asked her as they prepared to head to her kindergarten class on a recent morning. Inside, the children were preparing for a holiday party — each child assigned to prepare a secret gift for another student. Even before first grade, Frankie was working undercover.
“Remember, you’re a Secret Santa,” Mr. Montgomery whispered to her. “Don’t tell.”

Title: Re: POTH: Costumed Crusaders
Post by: G M on December 26, 2011, 09:11:38 AM
Other masked avengers, past and present, have had very specific agendas in fighting societal ills. In the early 2000s, for example, a woman in New York, whose persona was Terrifica, took to patrolling pick-up bars in pink and purple spandex.
“She had apparently had some bad experiences with men,” said Tea Krulos, a writer in Milwaukee who is researching a book on what he and others call the “real-life superhero movement.” “Her mission was to warn drunk women that they might not be making good decisions.”


**A-hem. Supervillain.
Title: Phoenix Jones!!!!!
Post by: dreatx on December 27, 2011, 04:23:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJQi7yYhVVA

Oh yeah, this whole thread seems to show that, at bare minimum, you gotta have a gun or 2 in your house.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: JDN on January 04, 2012, 06:35:29 PM
An Oklahoma 911 operator calmly advised a recently widowed mother who asked if it was permissible to shoot an intruder, officials said Wednesday.
"I've got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?" asked Sarah Dawn McKinley of Blanchard.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/04/justice/oklahoma-intruder-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on January 04, 2012, 07:19:12 PM
An Oklahoma 911 operator calmly advised a recently widowed mother who asked if it was permissible to shoot an intruder, officials said Wednesday.
"I've got two guns in my hand. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in this door?" asked Sarah Dawn McKinley of Blanchard.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/04/justice/oklahoma-intruder-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Nice she was in a state where self defense is respected.
Title: 90 year old badass
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 05, 2012, 08:42:31 AM

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/90-year-old-man-fends-attempted-burglary-during-sh/nGFxD/
90-year-old man, suspect injured in shootout during burglary attempt

KTVU.com
 
GREENBRAE, Calif. —
A Marin County burglar picked the wrong house to target late Wednesday morning when he ended up in a gun battle with a 90-year-old World War II-veteran that left both men hospitalized.
At around 10:45 a.m., police said the intruder -- 30-year-old Samuel Cutrufelli -- may have been trying to commit a burglary that turned into a shootout with elderly but well-armed property owner Jay Leone at the house on Via La Cumbre.
"He was home alone when his door was kicked open," Twin Cities Police Sgt. Mike Norton told KTVU. "The suspect entered and basically took him captive. The victim was able at one point to arm himself with a firearm and shoot the suspect three times. The suspect had his own fire arm. He was able to shoot the victim one time."
Police said Leone shots hit the intruder in the torso, arm and leg.
Friend and neighbor Scott Chalstrom told KTVU Leone is a former sheriff's deputy and physically fit.
"I'm shocked," said Chalstrom. "This is not the type of area you have this type of stuff going on in."
Police said the suspect fled, but called police himself less than a mile away, claiming to have shot himself accidentally.
KTVU spoke with a woman who was just steps away when the shooting started. Sara Navon rents a downstairs room in the house where the shooting took place.
She said she was not surprised that her landlord -- a former military man who also worked in law enforcement -- fought off the suspected intruder with deadly force.
Navon didn't know it at first, but her 90-year-old landlord was in a fight for his life just one floor above her in the Greenbrae home where they both live.
"I shouted for him 'Jay! Jay!'" said Navon. She also called 911.
Leone had been shot in the face, but Navon said his act of bravery made good on a promise he made to her years ago.
"He always told me," remembered Navon. "Sometimes I would be scared. He said 'Don't worry. I'm above and I have a weapon. I was the best sniper.  I'm good.' And I said 'Ok!'"
Police said both men are in stable condition at Marin General Hospital.
On Wednesday night, Navon was staying with friends. She spoke with KTVU by phone after she visited Leone in the hospital. She said the bullet went through his cheek, but surprisingly did not break any bones.
"It was very difficult for him to talk," said Navon. "He was in good spirits."
Sgt. Norton told KTVU he was very impressed with Leone, saying that the 90-year-old was able to tell police what happened while he was in the ambulance.
The suspect Cutrufelli will be charged with burglary and attempted murder.
Title: College student shotts home invader, saves ten lives
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 07, 2012, 10:08:05 AM
College student shoots home invader, saves 10 lives

Yet another reason to keep a gun in the house . . .

In the first days of May, 2009, in the notoriously dangerous neighborhood of College Park in Atlanta, Georgia, two armed criminals broke into a house party of students.

After confiscating the group's valuables, the invaders split the men and women up into different rooms.

Witnesses say the perpetrators then counted their rounds and discussed if they had "enough" ammunition.

The students believed the gunmen were going to rape and murder the entire group of students, who were celebrating a birthday at the end of the semester.

However, one male student, whose identity is being protected by police and local media, retrieved a handgun from his backpack and fired at the thug who was detaining the men.

(That is: One smart student had prepared for a night in College Park, Atlanta.)

The criminal fled the apartment under the threat of injury and never returned.

The student continued on into the girls' room, found the other thug, 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, preparing to rape his first victim.

The student exchanged gunfire with Lavant, lethally wounding him in the process.  Lavant fled through a window and died in front of his apartment, only one building away.

One of the female students was injured during the exchange, but doctors expect a full and complete recovery.

So what's the point?

A student saved the girls from rape, and saved the whole group of 10 people (including himself) from murder . . . and he did it with a handgun.

This is a perfect example of how ludicrous "big city gun laws" are.  What if this had happened in New York, Chicago, or any of the other big cities that criminalize their citizens' self defense?

Yes, we would be reading an entirely different story -- one so horrendous that we would shudder at the very words.

Either this whole group of friends would have been raped and murdered by these two sorry excuses for human beings . . . or the hero of this story would be facing prison time for firearm possession and murder.

And that's exactly how gun-grabber Michael Bloomberg and his Mayors Against Illegal Guns want it.

Thankfully, however, Atlanta hasn't outlawed self-defense yet.  And since someone had a gun and was willing to use it, innocent life was preserved.

Congratulations to the unnamed hero of this story.  You saved your friends' lives.

In Liberty,



Dudley Brown
Executive Director
National Association for Gun Rights
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: dreatx on January 07, 2012, 12:17:30 PM
I did not want to start a new post for this and this one talks about defense...sooo is the use of the palm/koppo/yawara stick covered in any of the dvds?

Thanks.

(Please move if this is badly placed)
Title: try this thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 07, 2012, 04:42:20 PM
Woof dreatx:

Try this thread for starters:  http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=1833.msg28792;topicseen#msg28792

Crafty Dog
Title: Wheel Chair hero
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 11, 2012, 08:00:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMyjVpag8os&feature=youtube_gdata_player&noredirect=1
Title: Football Coach hero at Ohio Shooting
Post by: JDN on February 29, 2012, 07:23:35 AM
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/29/frank-hall-coach-who-chased-the-chardon-high-school-gunman-is-a-hero.html
Title: NW Burglars Continue To Not Get It: Another Burglar Killed, More Flee
Post by: G M on April 07, 2012, 04:00:26 PM

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/chris-dumm/nw-burglars-continue-to-not-get-it-another-burglar-killed-more-flee/

 

NW Burglars Continue To Not Get It: Another Burglar Killed, More Flee

Posted on April 6, 2012 by Chris Dumm




While the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin saga unfolds in Florida amid protests and death threats, a different story is quietly playing itself out in the opposite corner of the country. But you might not know much about it, because this Northwest self-defense story isn’t getting much airplay on network news. Maybe because it doesn’t play into their race-baiting, anti-gun narrative.

This story just keeps going and going, because NW burglars continue to practically beg to be shot by breaking into other people’s homes. And NW homeowners keep obliging them by shooting them.

Four days ago we reported on a North Bend, WA homeowner who shot and killed the cocaine and alcohol-fueled madman who broke into his home and kicked down his bedroom door.

That followed a fatal shotgun home-defense shooting in La Center, Washington (also involving a heavily-intoxicated burglar) and a nonfatal rubber buckshot home-defense shooting in Portland, Oregon in January, where the wounded burglar tried to escape on his bicycle.

And another nonfatal home-defense shotgun blast in Seattle in February, where the wounded burglar hopped on a city bus to make his getaway. If you’re familiar with Portland or Seattle, you won’t think it unusual that wounded home-invasion burglars would try to escape on bicycles or public buses: it’s all about the carbon footprint after all.

And two days ago another home invader made an abrupt career change (from burglar to corpse) when he attacked a retired Puyallup, WA police officer. KING5.com reports:


PUYALLUP, Wash. — A retired Puyallup police officer shot and killed a man who was attempting to break into his home Wednesday afternoon.

Pierce County sheriff’s deputies said just before 4:30 p.m., a man who lives at a home in the 14300 block of 134th Avenue East was sleeping when people tried to break in. The owner grabbed his gun and fired, hitting one of the intruders. The group then fled.

Their next stop was the emergency room. According to deputies, the injured man was dropped off at Good Samaritan Hospital in Puyallup, where he later died.

That person has been identified as Kevin Fernandes, 21, of Spanaway.

That’s pronounced ‘Pew-allup’ if you’re wondering, but there’s more.

AND just yesterday there were two more home-defense DGUs, in which several would-be burglars ran for their lives at the sight of a homeowner’s firearm. One of those homeowners violated a cardinal rule of self-defense and fired his shotgun at the fleeing felon after the threat had ended, but no charges against him have been announced.

I’m almost embarrassed to live in a part of the country with so many lunatic, intoxicated or just plain stupid burglars, but at least at this rate most of them will be dead in a few decades if they don’t breed too fast. And I’m proud to live in a part of the country where homeowners are willing and ready to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 07, 2012, 10:45:40 PM
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2012/04/08/
Title: CCW in UT stops mad stabber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 01, 2012, 11:28:02 AM
Stabbing suspect has long criminal history
By Pat Reavy


SALT LAKE CITY — A man accused of stabbing people at random at a downtown Smith's Marketplace Thursday has a long criminal history.

Kiet Thanh Ly, 34, was booked into the Salt Lake County Jail for investigation of attempted murder and aggravated assault. Two victims remained in very critical but stable condition Friday at a local hospital, according to Salt Lake police.

But investigators said Friday they still don't know what caused Ly — a South Vietnamese national — to "snap" Thursday afternoon.

Just before 5:30 p.m., police say Ly purchased a knife at Smith's Marketplace, 455 S. 500 East. He then walked into the parking lot and stabbed a 30-year-old man several times in the abdomen, according to a police report. He then allegedly attempted to stab several other people who were able to get away.

A second victim, a 45-year-old man, was cut several times on his arm and received a stab would to his head, said Salt Lake Police Lt. Brian Purvis.

That's when a 47-year-old man, who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, took action.

"(The bystander) was suspicious of what might be going on, and when he saw the stabbing, he just drew his pistol and challenged the individual," Purvis said.

Ly was held on the ground until police arrived.

Friday, police released a statement from the concealed weapons holder who told them he wished to remain anonymous.

"I was in the right place at the right time and I did what I had to do," he told police.

Utah court records show Ly has had many run-ins with police dating back to 1997, and his behavior seemed to be more erratic and violent in recent years.

On Monday, he was convicted of joyriding and possessing another person's identification. He is scheduled to be sentenced on those charges in June. He was also convicted in March of misdemeanor theft and placed on probation.

Ly was charged in March in a separate case with sexual battery and two counts of lewdness stemming from incidents that allegedly occurred while he was a patient at St. Mark's Hospital, according to court records. On April 16, Ly submitted a letter to Judge Judith Atherton without advising his own attorneys about it. In the letter, Ly questions why actions he's charged with committing were such a big deal. That case was still pending as of Friday.

In 2011, Ly was convicted on an amended charge of attempted assault on a police officer. In that incident, Ly refused to leave an acquaintance's house, claiming he was homeless, according to court records. When police arrived, Ly took a stance as if he was going to throw punches, charging documents state. He then damaged a police car while being transported to jail.

Also in 2011, Ly was convicted on an amended charge of attempted aggravated assault for threatening a Department of Workforce Services employee with a knife, according to court records.
Title: Surprise man uses martial arts on intruder
Post by: Mick C. on May 06, 2012, 01:32:04 PM
(BTW, that caption isn't a typo for "Surprise! Man uses martial arts on intruder!"  Surprise, Arizona is a city on the western edge of the Phoenix metro area.)

From the Arizona Republic May 6 2012:

by D.S. Woodfill - May. 5, 2012 08:51 PM
The Republic | azcentral.com

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/04/26/20120426surprise-martial-arts-intruder.html#ixzz1u7e9j2iu

David Jennings slowly emerged from a deep sleep, sensing that someone was standing by his bed.

In the dark room, the blue glow of the television illuminated a man's silhouette. The stranger was pointing a gun at Jennings' head.

"Don't move," the stranger said.


Crime victims often have just moments to react, as they decide how best to keep alive and protect loved ones. With his three children sleeping down the hall and his wife lying next to him, Jennings had a second to decide.

He moved.

2:50 A.M.

Jennings would later say it was almost as if he weren't directing his own actions.

Protect the family.

Jennings, who was lying on his stomach, reached around behind his back with his left arm and grabbed the intruder's hand that was holding the gun -- the same gun Jennings kept by his bed for protection, a Bersa .380 semiautomatic.

Jennings used his free hand to push himself off his bed and swung his left leg off the edge. Turning toward the intruder, Jennings lunged. He slammed his shoulder into the man's midsection, and with his arms wrapped around the stranger's torso, lifted him off the ground to take him off balance. With the stranger digging his fingernails into Jennings' back, the two crashed to the floor, about six feet from the foot of the bed.

Sitting on the stranger's torso, Jennings wrapped his leg around him to constrict his breathing.

"I was smashing his head into the ground, trying to keep him disoriented," Jennings said.

He shouted for his wife to call 911. Jennifer Jennings grabbed the phone and dialed but couldn't remember her own address. She composed herself enough to spit the words out and then ran from the room, jumping over the two men who were blocking the door. She took the children downstairs to the family room.

The intruder stopped struggling when the two hit the ground.

That's when he said something totally unexpected.

"He was just saying, 'I'm sorry. I'm sorry,' as he lay on his stomach," Jennings said. "He wasn't doing anything else. He was just laying there, his arms out to the side."

The gun was a few feet away, dropped during the struggle.

Jennifer unlocked the front door for the police.

Upstairs, she told them.

As two Surprise police officers charged into the room, guns drawn, they grabbed the aggressor, the one who had a man pinned to the bedroom floor on his stomach.

Jennifer, just behind them, saw the mistake.

"Wait, that's my husband."

They handcuffed the intruder and took him away.

David Jennings' hands shook for five hours.

Reaction

Whether Jennings reacted to the situation appropriately depends on who's doing the talking.

Surprise police Sgt. Bert Anzini praised Jennings for his quick action but stopped short of saying that everyone in that situation should react in the same way.

"It's the person -- the victim who's in this situation -- that has to make that choice of whether they're going to submit to the demands of the criminal and hope that there's no type of violence," Anzini said.

Michael Foley, who teaches self-defense, said victims in a similar situation as Jennings should definitely take action. Foley said when someone breaks into an occupied home and has a gun, "they're probably going to do something to you no matter if you comply or not."

"Your best bet is to fight with everything you've got," he said.

James Gierke, director of victims services for the National Organization for Victim Assistance, said taking on a criminal suspect is not always the right thing to do.

"I think (that's) way too black and white," he said. "There's a huge potential for you to escalate a situation. Sometimes compliance is the best approach.

"I cannot and I would not absolutely recommend that in every single situation the appropriate response is to fight. I think in certain situations compliance makes sense."

The aftermath

The man who broke into the Jenningses' home in the middle of the night had the misfortune to run into someone with some experience with fighting.

David Jennings said he briefly studied mixed martial arts five years ago, training that kicked in when he came under threat that night in his room. Mixed martial arts is a combat sport that uses techniques from wrestling, boxing and kickboxing as well as judo, Brazilian jujitsu and other fighting styles. Using his legs to constrict the intruder's breathing, which is known as a body lock, is one of the moves he learned.

The quick reaction came partly from his experience as a bouncer. But it was his life as a husband and father that led the 29-year-old to battle that weekend night in March.

"All those what-ifs -- like if he would have grabbed one of my sons or daughter," he said.

Surprise police arrested Ivan Sanchez, 18, who has a juvenile record for armed robbery and burglary.

Sanchez, accused of entering the Jennings house through an unlocked sliding-glass door, faces charges of aggravated assault and burglary.

Six weeks after the Jenningses awoke to the stranger beside their bed, David Jennings is thinking of putting in an alarm system. He double-checks the door locks every night. He still keeps the gun by his bed at night but started using a trigger lock.

Jennifer still sleeps with the lights on in the hallway and stairs outside their room. She makes her husband investigate every noise, no matter how minor. She is thinking about carrying a gun with her everywhere. She remembers how the intruder looked at them.

"That's what I see every night when I close my eyes."



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2012/04/26/20120426surprise-martial-arts-intruder.html#ixzz1u7dlfbsx

A couple of interesting tactical issues come to mind from the article, including doing the evening routine of checking every door and window before going to bed (currently in Arizona, the weather is hot during the day but cools off at night, so a lot of people leave doors and windows open at night to cool the house...which is why burglaries and sexual assaults increase at this time of year, especially around apartments and dorm rooms), and, assuming events happened as described in the article (always an iffy proposition), the wisdom of keeping a (presumably loaded) firearm on the nightstand with children in the house. (Possibly the homeowner took it out at night.)

I can understand why some of the people quoted may not want the legal liability for saying you should always fight with someone who enters your home at night, but generally, that may well be a do-or-die situation, in my opinion. Most burglars statistically hit a house during the day, when they presume no one is home, as they are usually teenagers and/or junkies who just want to grab something they can quickly pawn or fence to support a drug habit, and enter through a broken back window or unlocked door. They generally do not seek confrontation (but can turn dangerous if confronted or trapped).  Cat-burglars, who enter a house at night when they believe someone is at home, are much more dangerous, often derive sexual satisfaction from entering a house when people are asleep, and are more likely to escalate to sexual assault or homicide during their criminal careers.  As the most likely next step in a home invasion scenario would have been binding the residents, resisting early was probably a good idea, IMO. If in an area where home invasions happen regularly, I've heard it suggested that the family have a plan that if someone yells a codeword ("RUN"! or "INTRUDER!" or whatever), everyone runs and separates and gets out any exit they can and seeks help, disrupting the attackers' game plan before it can coalesce.  It's probably better to resist early rather than when it is too late in this situation.
Title: Lifeguard fired for saving a drowning man's life
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 05, 2012, 02:03:22 PM


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/lifeguard-fired-after-violating-policy-to-save-a-drowning-mans-life/
Title: Iraqi vet on the bus
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 09, 2012, 01:30:39 PM

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Iraq-war-vet-stands-up-to-bullies-on-Lacey-bus-136487923.html
Title: Good samaritan in drive thru
Post by: bigdog on July 19, 2012, 04:48:07 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkj9E1w5EvE&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Good thing he had his knife!
Title: Soldier gives life saving girlfriend during CO massacre
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 22, 2012, 07:04:22 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/he-provided-me-the-opportunity-to-survive-woman-describes-how-military-boyfriend-took-a-bullet-for-her-during-shooting/
Title: SCOTUS: Police have no duty to protect
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 28, 2012, 07:44:54 AM
NYTimes

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
By LINDA GREENHOUSEPublished: June 28, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.

For hours on the night of June 22, 1999, Jessica Gonzales tried to get the Castle Rock police to find and arrest her estranged husband, Simon Gonzales, who was under a court order to stay 100 yards away from the house. He had taken the children, ages 7, 9 and 10, as they played outside, and he later called his wife to tell her that he had the girls at an amusement park in Denver.

Ms. Gonzales conveyed the information to the police, but they failed to act before Mr. Gonzales arrived at the police station hours later, firing a gun, with the bodies of the girls in the back of his truck. The police killed him at the scene.

The theory of the lawsuit Ms. Gonzales filed in federal district court in Denver was that Colorado law had given her an enforceable right to protection by instructing the police, on the court order, that "you shall arrest" or issue a warrant for the arrest of a violator. She argued that the order gave her a "property interest" within the meaning of the 14th Amendment's due process guarantee, which prohibits the deprivation of property without due process.

The district court and a panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit dismissed the suit, but the full appeals court reinstated it and the town appealed. The Supreme Court's precedents made the appellate ruling a challenging one for Ms. Gonzales and her lawyers to sustain.

A 1989 decision, DeShaney v. Winnebago County, held that the failure by county social service workers to protect a young boy from a beating by his father did not breach any substantive constitutional duty. By framing her case as one of process rather than substance, Ms. Gonzales and her lawyers hoped to find a way around that precedent.

But the majority on Monday saw little difference between the earlier case and this one, Castle Rock v. Gonzales, No. 04-278. Ms. Gonzales did not have a "property interest" in enforcing the restraining order, Justice Scalia said, adding that "such a right would not, of course, resemble any traditional conception of property."

Although the protective order did mandate an arrest, or an arrest warrant, in so many words, Justice Scalia said, "a well-established tradition of police discretion has long coexisted with apparently mandatory arrest statutes."

But Justices Stevens and Ginsburg, in their dissenting opinion, said "it is clear that the elimination of police discretion was integral to Colorado and its fellow states' solution to the problem of underenforcement in domestic violence cases." Colorado was one of two dozen states that, in response to increased attention to the problem of domestic violence during the 1990's, made arrest mandatory for violating protective orders.

"The court fails to come to terms with the wave of domestic violence statutes that provides the crucial context for understanding Colorado's law," the dissenting justices said.

Organizations concerned with domestic violence had watched the case closely and expressed disappointment at the outcome. Fernando LaGuarda, counsel for the National Network to End Domestic Violence, said in a statement that Congress and the states should now act to give greater protection.

Title: witnesses lead to arrest of three
Post by: bigdog on August 01, 2012, 03:56:42 AM
http://www.examiner.com/article/3-arrested-after-robbing-and-beating-87-year-old-veteran
Title: woman lifts car off of father
Post by: bigdog on August 02, 2012, 06:18:32 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/01/lauren-kornacki-lifts-bmw_n_1728396.html
Title: 60 year old disarms robber twice
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 08, 2012, 08:52:02 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2184465/Heroic-Civil-War-buff-uses-400-year-old-Cavalier-fighting-skills-disarm-knife-wielding-robber-attacked-shop-worker.html#ixzz22rbuK4QB
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: bigdog on August 14, 2012, 06:16:21 PM
Decent, short video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VcSwejU2D0&feature=share[/youtube]
Title: CCW stops rampaging knife whacko
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 25, 2012, 07:17:28 AM
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx
Title: Don't f&%# with the mom
Post by: bigdog on August 28, 2012, 06:05:17 AM
http://www.nwcn.com/home/?fId=167589755&fPath=/news/local&fDomain=10202
 
"I got out with a 2x4 and I broke it over him... I'm not gonna lie, I just went over there and I just stomped him in his face and mouth," Robinson said.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 28, 2012, 07:50:40 PM
 :-D
Title: 66 yr old Texan saves cop with his .357
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 30, 2012, 08:06:34 AM


http://digitaltexan.net/2012/state/texas-gunslinger-vic-stacy-wins-shootout-killer/article38007/#.UD9o9Yl5mc0
Title: LA bills dead good samaritans
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 31, 2012, 06:14:27 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/los-angeles-plans-charge-family-electrocuted-good-samaritans-174537361.html
Title: MMA man killed by knife
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 05, 2012, 06:23:56 AM
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/expert+Wyatt+Lewis+fatally+stabbed+protecting+friend/7183999/story.html
Title: Fire Department App PSA
Post by: bigdog on September 06, 2012, 11:19:54 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPXyxQUbZ4I[/youtube]

App for giving assistance.
Title: Dads take matters into their own hands
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 01, 2012, 08:11:50 AM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fa9_1351626975
Title: Store owner shoots rampaging knifer
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 03, 2012, 04:03:14 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J6gcFPjdwiI

Also, some remarkably stupid comments from the news folks.
Title: Female Store Clerk Gets in Gun Fight With 3 Armed Robbers and Wins
Post by: G M on November 29, 2012, 04:26:53 PM
http://gunssavelives.net/self-defense/female-store-clerk-gets-in-gun-fight-with-3-armed-robbers-and-wins/

Female Store Clerk Gets in Gun Fight With 3 Armed Robbers and Wins


A store clerk in Columbia, SC was facing three armed robbers during her night shift.

When the three men began firing their guns in the air, the clerk grabbed her own weapon and opened fire on the suspects.

One of the would be robbers was shot in the chest, caught by police and is being treated at an area hospital.

The other two suspects escaped, but police believe one of them may have also been shot.

The clerk was not harmed.

Title: Homeowner stabs gun-wielding intruder
Post by: Karunamama on November 30, 2012, 09:04:30 AM
This happened at a nearby town:

Police took a suspect into custody Wednesday on suspicion of home invasion after he was released from Heartland Regional Medical Center, where he had been treated for stab wounds to his legs and arms.

Marcus Bell, 22, of Marion was stabbed by a homeowner who managed to obtain a knife during an altercation. Bell reportedly was armed with a gun.

“There was a gun and knife involved and the knife won,” said Detective T.J. Warren of the Marion Police Department.

Police got an emergency call shortly before 8 p.m. from a house in the 1700 block of Faust Street.

Bell had apparently made forcible entry into the house and confronted the homeowner. They got into altercation. The homeowner was able to defend himself with a knife, stabbing Bell multiple times before he (Bell) fled the scene.

Officers trailed Bell to a Marion motel where he was arrested. He was  taken to Heartland before being booked into Williamson County jail, Warren said.

scott.fitzgerald@thesouthern.com
Title: San Fran woman chases away burgler with bear spray & bokken
Post by: Guide Dog on November 30, 2012, 02:26:24 PM
http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/san-francisco-woman-apprehends-burglar-bear-spray-live-184900837.html
Title: George Zimmerman Photograph
Post by: G M on December 04, 2012, 10:40:25 AM
George Zimmerman Photograph
on 03 December 2012.

This is a photo of George Zimmerman taken by a police officer on the night of February 26, 2012. A black and white photocopy of this image was provided by the State in the first Discovery. This high-resolution digital file was finally provided to the defense on October 29, 2012. This image was disclosed in the State's 9th Supplemental Discovery.  In accordance with the updates to our media policy that we published on November 13, we will be making all public documents related to the case available on our website, including the rest of the State's 9th Supplemental Discovery as soon as we are sure it has been properly redacted according to the Court's stipulations on protecting information regarding specific witnesses.


(http://gzlegalcase.com/images/zimmerman_scene_photo.jpg)
Title: Guns save lives; FBI justifiable homicide data; Jonh Lott
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 17, 2012, 08:34:08 PM

http://gunssavelives.net/

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/
www.thevrwc.org/JohnLott.pdf
http://www.johnlott.org/
__________________
Title: POTH: What drives suicidal mass killers?
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 18, 2012, 09:14:29 AM
WHAT do Mir Aimal Kansi, Ali Abu Kamal, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet and Nidal Malik Hasan have in common with Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho and Adam Lanza? The first four claimed to be fighting the American government’s unholy oppression of Muslims; they struck the C.I.A. headquarters, the Empire State Building, Los Angeles International Airport and the Army base at Fort Hood, Tex., respectively. The last four seemed to be driven by personal motives; they shot up a high school, a university and an elementary school.

For years, the conventional wisdom has been that suicide terrorists are rational political actors, while suicidal rampage shooters are mentally disturbed loners. But the two groups have far more in common than has been recognized.

Over the last three years, I have examined interviews, case studies, suicide notes, martyrdom videos and witness statements and found that suicide terrorists are indeed suicidal in the clinical sense — which contradicts what many psychologists and political scientists have long asserted. Although suicide terrorists may share the same beliefs as the organizations whose propaganda they spout, they are primarily motivated by the desire to kill and be killed — just like most rampage shooters.

In fact, we should think of many rampage shooters as nonideological suicide terrorists. In some cases, they claim to be fighting for a cause — neo-Nazism, eugenics, masculine supremacy or an antigovernment revolution — but, as with suicide terrorists, their actions usually stem from something much deeper and more personal.

There appears to be a triad of factors that sets these killers apart. The first is that they are generally struggling with mental health problems that have produced their desire to die. The specific psychiatric diagnoses vary widely, and include everything from clinical depression and post-traumatic stress disorder to schizophrenia and others forms of psychosis. The suicide rate was 12.4 per 100,000 people in the United States in 2010 (the highest in 15 years). Suicide is relatively rare, but it is rarer still in most Muslim countries. This is a very limited pool from which most suicide terrorists and rampage shooters come.

The second factor is a deep sense of victimization and belief that the killer’s life has been ruined by someone else, who has bullied, oppressed or persecuted him. Not surprisingly, the presence of mental illness can inflame these beliefs, leading perpetrators to have irrational and exaggerated perceptions of their own victimization. It makes little difference whether the perceived victimizer is an enemy government (in the case of suicide terrorists) or their boss, co-workers, fellow students or family members (in the case of rampage shooters).

The key is that the aggrieved individual feels that he has been terribly mistreated and that violent vengeance is justified. In many cases, the target for revenge becomes broader and more symbolic than a single person, so that an entire type or category of people is deemed responsible for the attacker’s pain and suffering. Then, the urge to commit suicide becomes a desire for murder-suicide, which is even rarer; a recent meta-analysis of 16 studies suggests that only two to three of every one million Americans commit murder-suicide each year.

The third factor is the desire to acquire fame and glory through killing. More than 70 percent of murder-suicides are between spouses or romantic or sexual partners, and these crimes usually take place at home. Attackers who commit murder-suicide in public are far more brazen and unusual. Most suicide terrorists believe they will be honored and celebrated as “martyrs” after their deaths and, sure enough, terrorist organizations produce martyrdom videos and memorabilia so that other desperate souls will volunteer to blow themselves up.

Similarly, rampage shooters have often been captivated by the idea that they will become posthumously famous. “Isn’t it fun to get the respect that we’re going to deserve?” the Columbine shooter Eric Harris remarked. He had fantasized with his fellow attacker, Dylan Klebold, that the filmmakers Steven Spielberg and Quentin Tarantino would fight over the rights to their life story.

Although we can only speculate, Adam Lanza’s decision to target elementary school children in Newtown, Conn., may have been a calculated attempt to get as much attention as possible. Despite misconceptions to the contrary, many mentally ill people are quite capable of staging their attacks for symbolic effect. In 2002, the Washington-area snipers John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo shot a middle schooler, then taunted the police with a note that said “Your children are not safe anywhere at any time.” Mr. Lanza may have realized that the only thing that generates more attention than killing random innocent adults is killing random innocent children.

It is tempting to look back at recent history and wonder what’s wrong with America — our culture and our policies. But underneath the pain, the rage and the desire to die, rampage shooters like Mr. Lanza are remarkably similar to aberrant mass killers — including suicide terrorists — in other countries. The difference rests in how they are shaped by cultural forces and which destructive behaviors they seek to copy. The United States has had more than its share of rampage shootings, but only a few suicide attacks. Other countries are regularly plagued by suicidal explosions, but rarely experience a school shooting.

I can’t help but wonder about Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Seung-Hui Cho and Adam Lanza. If they had been born in Gaza or the West Bank, shaped by terrorist organizations’ hateful propaganda, would they have strapped bombs around their waists and blown themselves up? I’m afraid the answer is yes.


Adam Lankford, an assistant professor of criminal justice at the University of Alabama, is the author of the forthcoming book “The Myth of Martyrdom: What Really Drives Suicide Bombers, Rampage Shooters, and Other Self-Destructive Killers.”
Title: Off-duty cop shoots movie theater killer wannabe
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 18, 2012, 11:39:39 AM
Though the hero here was a LEO, the principal of CCW applies, thus I post it here:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-attempts-to-open-fire-on-crowd-at-movie-theater-armed-off-duty-sheriffs-deputy-drops-him-with-one-bullet/
Title: TX man saves cop
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 21, 2012, 01:40:34 PM
http://godfatherpolitics.com/8635/armed-citizen-saves-cops-life/
Title: Good thing he had an assault rifle!
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 24, 2012, 09:55:07 AM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMg0FQS6Fqo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Title: Wife backs up husband in capturing suspect
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 07, 2013, 11:06:40 AM
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/woman-holds-suspect-at-gunpoint-after-husband-attacked/article_e601ca4c-56b2-11e2-9a56-0019bb2963f4.html
Title: Ho hum, just another successful use of gun for defense
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 12, 2013, 10:49:21 PM


http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20130112/NEWS/13011200...
Title: Anyone expect the MSM to pick this up?
Post by: G M on January 19, 2013, 02:26:12 PM
http://www.kten.com/story/19848350/12-year-old-shoots-home-intruder

12 Year Old Shoots Home Intruder
Posted: Oct 17, 2012 5:29 PM MDT
By Alex Belser, Reporter

 BRYAN COUNTY, OK--A day off for fall break was anything but relaxing for a 12-year old Bryan County girl, when an intruder broke into her home on Michael Avenue.

Deputies say, the girl was home alone when a man she'd never seen before, rang the front doorbell. They say when no one answered the door, the man went around to the back of the house and kicked a door open. That's when authorities say, the girl grabbed a gun and hid in a bathroom closet.

"He had worked his way all the way through the house and into the bathroom. And from what we understand, he was turning the doorknob when she fired through the door." Says Bryan County Under sheriff, Ken Golden.

After the man was shot, The 12- year old ran out of the closet and called for help.
Authorities say she kept her cool despite the potential danger. "She was very brave, she stayed on the phone with the dispatcher the whole time - talked all the way through it and was still on the phone with dispatch when we got into the house." Says Golden.

Deputies tell KTEN, the man was taken by helicopter to a hospital in Plano, Texas and he's expected to survive.

Under sheriff Ken Golden says the girl is a hero and that under the circumstances, she did everything right to protect herself ."She did everything she was supposed to do and as a last resort, she did what she had to do to protect herself."

The Home intruder has been identified as Stacy Jones of Texarkana. So far no charges have been filed. The girl's name has not been released.

Title: two out of five burglars shot
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 21, 2013, 04:36:12 PM
Would you want to have to give this a try with NY's 7 shots? or even the 10 of elsewhere?

http://newsok.com/burglars-shot-in-southeast-oklahoma-city-police-said/article/3747217
Title: Glock ad
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 24, 2013, 11:02:15 AM
Just an ad from Glock, but good fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gCFOtaZPo&feature=player_embedded
Title: Duct tape
Post by: G M on February 01, 2013, 03:39:24 PM
http://www.click2houston.com/news/Home-invasion-suspect-arrested-after-woman-opens-fire/-/1735978/18331728/-/format/rss_2.0/-/s329rz/-/index.html

Home invasion suspect arrested after woman opens fire

Suspect arrested at hospital

 Author: Camille Williams, Reporter, cwilliams@kprc.com

Published On: Jan 29 2013 10:18:36 PM CST Updated On: Jan 30 2013 08:27:52 AM CST

Mother distracts, shoots home invader

MAGNOLIA, Texas -
A home invasion suspect was arrested at a hospital after a mother shot him during the crime at a Montgomery County home, deputies said Wednesday.

Erin, who asked to be identified only by her first name, told Local 2 she was putting her 6-year-old son to bed when she heard a loud noise coming from her bedroom on Mink Lake Drive Friday night.

"I threw the cover over my son and I took off running, screaming to the living room to let my dogs out," she said.



Quick Clicks
Deputies: Mom surprises home invaders with gun

Erin said she turned around and saw three masked men, pointing a gun right at her.

"When I saw three of them, I knew I was in a lot of trouble. I said, 'The TV is the most expensive thing I own. You could take that through the front door and go with it,' and they said, 'No, the money, the money,'" said Erin.

Erin said she had to think fast as the men headed towards her son's room. The mom said she distracted the men as she rushed to get her gun.

"Somehow the way it happened, as they were going down the hallway, I told them sometimes I keep money under the mattress, which is not true. But I needed to get to where my gun was," she said.

The men followed her to her bedroom.

"I was pretending to move the mattress. It's really heavy, so I was trying to move their attention to the mattress because they wouldn't take their eyes off of me. I needed a split second for them to take their eyes off of me. I said, 'It might be under here.' They started talking to each other in Spanish and then a roll of duct tape came out," said Erin.

At this point, Erin said she prayed for something to distract them so she could grab her gun. She said her prayers were answered when her dogs ran in and started barking.

"They all turned around and looked. I grabbed my gun, cocked it, I turned and shot him right in the stomach," said Erin.

Two of the men escaped. Erin said she pointed a gun at a third suspect, but he went after her before she could shoot.

"We wrestled around in my bedroom and he came after me. I had my gun like this. He kneed me in the face. He just jerked the gun right out of my hand and took off," she said.

Next, Erin rushed to her son's room.

"I looked and saw Kaden and he had the covers up to his eyes," said Erin.

She grabbed her son, got another gun and called 911. The mother said her story would have ended much differently if she didn't have her pistol.

"Protecting yourself goes into our Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. And thousands of people died to give me the right that saved my life," said Erin.

The Montgomery County Sheriff's Office said Adrian Granados-Yepez, 27, of Tomball, was arrested at Memorial Hermann Hospital Monday night, where he was being treated for a gunshot wound.

Anyone with information on the other suspects is asked to call Montgomery County Crime Stoppers at 800-392-STOP.

Probably some poor undocumented Americans just wanting to help her with home repairs.
Title: Heroic Hippie
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 04, 2013, 01:46:30 PM
Definitely NSFW:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/trending/189682131.html?fb_action_ids=10200704853290041&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210200704853290041%22%3A123274764514999%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210200704853290041%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 08, 2013, 05:32:41 PM
Hippie Hero, the musical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wDQTvuP1Dgs#!
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on February 08, 2013, 05:37:12 PM
Only in California would the stoner with the bloody axe be the sanest person involved in an incident.
Title: CCW to the rescue in Detroit , , , again.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 10, 2013, 07:43:11 AM


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/08/its-been-a-bad-week-for-robbers-in-detroit-concealed-carry-holders-fight-back-and-open-fire/
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: DDF on February 14, 2013, 08:40:27 PM
Hippie Hero, the musical

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wDQTvuP1Dgs#!

What the hell? Is this one of the same people that shout that people that voted for the Tea Party should die?

Thanks for the laugh.
Title: Dog poo leads to TX firefight
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 08, 2013, 06:49:39 PM


http://www.guns.com/2012/08/01/texas-gun-owner-shoot-out/
Title: Re: Dog poo leads to TX firefight
Post by: G M on March 09, 2013, 06:39:41 AM


http://www.guns.com/2012/08/01/texas-gun-owner-shoot-out/

165 yards hits with a handgun is very impressive!
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 09, 2013, 07:09:57 PM
I caught that too! 

Perhaps a bit of a Texas tall tale?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on March 09, 2013, 07:21:45 PM
Well, I have put rounds on steel IPSC type targets  at 100 yards in a class. I was prone and had no time pressure though.
Title: Hero student suspended
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 16, 2013, 06:43:53 AM


http://www.blackenterprise.com/news/student-suspended-disarm-gunman-on-bus/#.UW0Y7DdagQQ.facebook
Title: I'm guessing he needed more than seven shots , , ,
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 23, 2013, 06:42:13 AM
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2013/04/16/4-man-home-invasion-successfully-defended-by-armed-homeowner-two-assailants-dead-in-nc
Title: Charles Ramsey: hero
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 06, 2013, 11:00:38 PM
http://guyism.com/humor/charles-ramsey-rescues-three-women-gives-greatest-interview-in-the-history-of-television.html
Title: Re: Charles Ramsey: hero
Post by: bigdog on May 07, 2013, 05:24:17 AM
This is an AMAZING story.  8-)

http://guyism.com/humor/charles-ramsey-rescues-three-women-gives-greatest-interview-in-the-history-of-television.html
Title: More from Charles Ramsey!
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 08, 2013, 08:13:42 AM
Seven minutes with Anderson Cooper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5elloa4kOc&feature=player_embedded
Title: Wife kills intruder fighting her husband with a knife
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 14, 2013, 12:45:32 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324142/Heroic-wife-stabs-home-invader-death-kitchen-knife-Crossfit-gym-owner-fatally-knifes-intruder-tries-strangle-husband-bursting-Mothers-Day.html
Title: Burglars lock child in closet , , , the gun closet
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 15, 2013, 12:54:22 PM
http://gunsnfreedom.com/3-men-break-into-house-and-put-son-in-his-dads-closet/
Title: Kai the hippie hatchet hero hacks attorney to death?
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 17, 2013, 08:29:53 AM
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/famed-hatchet-hitchhiker-hero-arrested-in-nj-homicide/article_a0d0af59-354e-53c9-ba78-970fbecc6e83.html
Title: MMA by osmosis.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 01, 2013, 02:46:57 AM

http://www.news10.net/news/article/2...acking-suspect

STOCKTON, CA - Abel Simmons has been a huge fan of the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) for years. But never did he imagine that he would be using the moves to defend himself or his family from a carjacking suspect.

Simmons, 29, was able to stop and hold down his attacker until police came.

Simmons says his family was pulling up to their home on E. Jefferson Street Saturday night. They had just returned from watching a UFC fight.

They were in the driveway when a man came up and started pounding on the back window of their SUV. Then, the man tried opening the back door where Simmon's sons - a newborn and a 2 year old - were sleeping. Fortunately, the door was locked.

Simmons, who was sitting in the passenger seat, jumped out out and tried to stop the man. His wife, who was driving, called 911.

The guy punched Simmons in the face. That was when Simmons tried several mixed martial arts moves. He wasn't able to restrain the assailant right away.

"I just snatched his legs and took him down. I had just put him in an arm bar, he slipped right out of it. So then I got him in a rear naked choke and started rolling and squirming around. He got out of that as well," said Simmons.

But the last move he tried worked.

"I had him in a guillotine choke. And he wasn't getting out of that. I had that lock really tight," said Simmons. "I just held him in place and said, 'Well, guess you are going to jail tonight buddy.'"

A neighbor came out to help, but he didn't' have to do much because Simmons had the man in a compromising position.

"It's impressive," said the neighbor. "He just had him in like a chokehold, had him really good, really tight."

Simmons held the man until police arrived several minutes later. According to police, the man fought with officers before being taken into custody.

The suspect, 32-year-old Shron Antoine Jones is now behind bars, booked on attempted carjacking, battery and resisting arrest.
Title: EMT saves cop
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 19, 2013, 05:43:48 PM
http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Channel/Hospital-Security/News/2013/06/11/EMT-Tackles-Gunman-Saves-NYPD-Cop.aspx
Title: No, you can't have my $ for my LeBron James shoes
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 24, 2013, 03:06:29 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/24/atlanta-crook-makes-fatal-mistake-by-thinking-patrons-in-line-for-180-shoes-wont-exercise-2nd-amendment-right/
Title: Re: No, you can't have my $ for my LeBron James shoes
Post by: G M on June 24, 2013, 04:49:13 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/24/atlanta-crook-makes-fatal-mistake-by-thinking-patrons-in-line-for-180-shoes-wont-exercise-2nd-amendment-right/

This does tend to discourage others from trying this again.
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 24, 2013, 06:39:52 PM
I love that the CCW guy stayed on line to get his shoes  :lol:
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: jcordova on June 24, 2013, 10:35:52 PM
Nice!!! Hopefully this would make these idiots think twice.
Title: CA LE considers being particularly stupid
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 25, 2013, 02:02:01 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/24/man-shoots-kills-drunk-intruder-who-broke-into-his-home-and-attacked-his-son-so-why-are-police-investigating-case-as-a-homicide/
Title: Re: CA LE considers being particularly stupid
Post by: G M on June 25, 2013, 02:43:51 PM


Heinlein foresaw all of this.

quote author=Crafty_Dog link=topic=1447.msg73298#msg73298 date=1372194121]
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/24/man-shoots-kills-drunk-intruder-who-broke-into-his-home-and-attacked-his-son-so-why-are-police-investigating-case-as-a-homicide/
[/quote]

Why are you still living in such a crazy state?
Title: Re: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 25, 2013, 03:51:18 PM
a) LA is one of the best cities on the planet when it comes to martial arts- it definitely would hurt my business efforts for me to be elsewhere

b) It's nice to see the dolphins play in the waves when I go hiking at Bluff Cove

c) Granted it is an exception, but my children's schools are rather good

d) my daughter is horse-crazy and can go riding at a stable 15 minutes away where my wife is the "barn manager" so we can afford it

e) It's nice being able to walk to the beach and that the summers are so long and so pleasant

f)
Title: Would be victim kicks drops two would be robbers
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 27, 2013, 06:46:43 PM
http://www.kobi5.com/news/local-news/item/victim-turns-tables-on-would-be-robbers.html
Title: Esquire argues for conviction of Zimmerman
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 28, 2013, 02:13:24 PM
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/trayvon-martin-trial-quote-police-interview
Title: Re: Esquire argues for conviction of Zimmerman
Post by: DougMacG on June 28, 2013, 04:33:25 PM
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/trayvon-martin-trial-quote-police-interview

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed 2nd degree murder?  I don't see it.  Others may be following this a lot closer than me, I look forward to comments and observations.

My thoughts:  Let's assume the deceased, Trayvon, was up to nothing sinister.  Even if he was scoping out homes for invasion, that doesn't warrant anyone shooting him.  Zimmerman I think is a self appointed neighborhood watch volunteer with a chip on his shoulder, a wannabe cop without the training or disposition for it, upset about what isn't being done to stop the problems, even though there was a recent arrest.

Zimmerman was sick of people like Trayvon before he met him.  By the time they were fighting, Trayvon no doubt was not liking Zimmerman either, or his attitude. I assume we don't get to know exactly how the fight started, but at some point it was Trayvon on top of Zimmerman pummeling him.  Zimmerman had plenty of injuries to corroborate that part, even if he was the one who provoked the fight.

Two guys are fighting and the one who is inflicting injuries at the end, ends up getting shot.  I see stupidity,  but I don't see murder.  2nd degree murder is the crime if Zimmerman had just shot him in the first place.  This was a fight with no proof of who struck first.  The injuries make self defense look plausible, even if he had foot in mouth, tough guy rhetoric in police interviews.  The legal question is whether Zimmerman waived his right of self defense when he chose to follow, and perhaps provoke a fight.  I would say he didn't.

If just shooting is what he was intending, why did he call the police?  If he intended to shoot, why would he have gotten engaged in a fist fight first while carrying a loaded gun?  Why get your nose broken if you are carrying a gun intending to kill.  Seems to me that by fighting, he was trying not to kill him with a gun, at least part way through the encounter. This was a stupid, avoidable fight that ended badly.  I don't take Zimmerman's side at all.  But I don't see this as murder beyond reasonable doubt.

What say others?
Title: 2 out of 3 is good enough for hero dad
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 02, 2013, 02:04:27 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/01/dont-mess-with-a-mans-family-armed-texas-dad-takes-on-three-home-intruders/
Title: Re: 2 out of 3 is good enough for hero dad
Post by: G M on July 02, 2013, 02:09:52 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/01/dont-mess-with-a-mans-family-armed-texas-dad-takes-on-three-home-intruders/
Nice!
Title: Trayvon Martin, burglar
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 03, 2013, 09:38:54 AM
http://patdollard.com/2013/06/trayvon-martins-involvement-in-local-burglaries-covered-up-by-media-school-police/
Title: Re: Trayvon Martin, burglar
Post by: G M on July 03, 2013, 11:45:35 AM
http://patdollard.com/2013/06/trayvon-martins-involvement-in-local-burglaries-covered-up-by-media-school-police/

St. Trayvon? GTFO!  :-o
Title: Hogties burglar, leaves for work.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 04, 2013, 10:28:42 AM
http://www.news9.com/story/22751588/tulsa-homeowner-ties-up-man-attempting-to-break-into-his-home
Title: POTH: In Oregon, a demand for safety, but not on their dime
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 06, 2013, 09:06:55 AM


In Oregon, a Demand for Safety, but Not on Their Dime
Thomas Patterson for The New York Times

Because of cuts to law enforcement in Josephine County, Ore., volunteers like Glenn Woodbury of Citizens Against Crime have taken up patrols. More Photos »
By KIRK JOHNSON
Published: July 5, 2013

GRANTS PASS, Ore. — It might be well established by now that money cannot buy happiness. But can it buy public safety?


A meeting for the citizen group Secure Our Safety. More Photos »

If you ask Sgt. Todd Moran of the Grants Pass police, the answer is unquestionably yes. Burglaries were up almost 70 percent last year in his city of 35,000 about an hour north of the California border. Theft cases, up almost 80 percent. And at least part of the reason, he said, is an awareness by criminals that their actions are increasingly without consequences in cash-starved Josephine County, where the jail the city depends on is mostly closed for lack of money.

Even a felony suspect arrested with stolen goods or drugs in hand is usually just given a citation and released. Better financing for the county’s jails and prosecutors is the only way forward, Sergeant Moran said.

“It’s just broken,” he said as he drove through town on a recent afternoon patrol.

Now drive an hour south and meet Sam Nichols and Glenn Woodbury, who volunteer with a group called Citizens Against Crime. They say that financial troubles are in fact strengthening the community and that citizen crime patrols like theirs are proving that money — meaning higher taxes — is not the solution.

They began patrolling the back roads of the county last summer after staffing at the sheriff’s office was gutted by budget cuts. With local residents on watch, crime rates in their area have fallen to near zero, said Mr. Nichols, a retired marina manager, as he drove on a recent evening, with Mr. Woodbury in the passenger seat shining a spotlight into the woods and winding dark driveways.

“Eleven months without a reported theft,” Mr. Nichols said, a handgun strapped to his hip, as an orange light flashed on the roof.

Concerns about crime and taxes are civic constants in America. And questions about the limits of citizen response have come under intense focus this summer during the trial of George Zimmerman, accused of murdering an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, while on volunteer patrol last year at a housing complex in Florida.

But the debate here goes much deeper, to the question of what government is for and how community is to be defined.

With the fiscal year that started on July 1, the Josephine County Sheriff’s Office now has exactly one deputy left available for general calls in a county of 83,000 people — down from a high of 22 at full staffing a few years ago. Citizen applications to carry a concealed weapon, meanwhile, rose 49 percent last year, according to county records.

At grocery stores in Grants Pass, stopping and citing shoplifters — sometimes with whole carts of beer or food in tow — have become part of the daily law enforcement routine.

“I hold my breath, every day, for everything,” said Sheriff Gil Gilbertson in an interview in his office, where images of John Wayne lined the walls.

The causes of Josephine County’s plight are convoluted and complex, and echoed in varying degrees across a swath of Oregon timber country that was scarred a century ago by a weird historical wrinkle: the collapse of the Oregon and California, or O&C, Railroad. Around World War I, the railroad’s lands were taken over by the federal government, leaving almost two-thirds of Josephine County, which is about the size of Rhode Island, in federal ownership. And since the federal government pays no property taxes, Congress established a system channeling revenues from the sale of timber, which the county has in abundance.

But as federal timber harvests have been reduced, the lush payments that kept property taxes low have fallen to a trickle. And a federal stopgap payment measure to make up for the timber money was phased out last year. County residents, meanwhile, have voted multiple times, most recently in May, against raising their property taxes to resolve the shortfall.

“It’s a slow-motion disaster,” said Bruce A. Weber, a professor of agricultural and resource economics at Oregon State University and the director of the Rural Studies Program. And with federal spending programs in retreat and the state budget under continued stress, he said, no fix is easy.
==============================

(Page 2 of 2)

Senator Ron Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon, is working on a package of bills that would expand what he called “sustainable” levels of timber cutting — and thus tax revenue — to Josephine and the other O&C counties. But that long-term relief would be years away. In the meantime, he said in an interview, he hopes to get a temporary financing package through the House and Senate by the end of this year. The State Legislature in Salem is also considering emergency rescue plans.


Sheriff Gil Gilbertson’s office has one deputy available for calls in a county of 83,000 people.  More Photos »


Josephine County has struggled financially as federal timber money has been reduced. More Photos »

Keith O. Heck, a county commissioner, said he fears that the county could break apart into balkanized camps of self-government, each on its own lookout, if a fix to the problem is not found soon.

“Freedom demands structure,” he said. “If you don’t have some structure to that freedom, there’s nothing that is free — everything just becomes a crapshoot and it’s just who’s got the biggest dice.”

At the Grants Pass Liquor Store, it all comes down to whether customers feel safe, said Jack Ingvaldson, the owner. Lately, he said, some do not.

“We have homeless people sitting in the alleyway — they drink, urinate, defecate, fornicate — whatever they can get away with,” he said. And a ticket or citation from a police officer? They laugh and stay put. “They don’t care — they know there’s nowhere to put them,” he said.

Some residents said they believe the crime statistics and stories are being exaggerated, or used for political effect, if and when another property tax increase is proposed on the ballot. Mr. Woodbury of the Citizens Against Crime group, for one, said he thinks it will not work.

“We’re among thousands of people in the country that are just to the point of not ever voting for another tax, whether it be public safety, or any type of an increase,” he said.

Even without a resurgent timber-cutting plan, there are already worries that balkanized camps of armed residents could create new tensions. On a recent morning, for example, Sheriff Gilbertson was called to investigate a complaint that someone had fired shots at a crew of loggers. The gunman was gone by the time the sheriff arrived. But the encounter, he said, gave him another reason to worry. The loggers said they planned to return to the job armed next time, ready for self-defense.
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 11, 2013, 04:39:57 PM
http://gunsnfreedom.com/armed-marine-stops-carjacker-who-had-knife-to-womans-throat/

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/10/awesome-video-general-store-customers-take-down-tie-up-escaped-rapist/
Title: Man saves drowning women, then drowns
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 12, 2013, 06:34:27 PM
http://www.local10.com/news/man-drowned-helping-woman-caught-in-rip-current/-/1717324/20956812/-/102v6acz/-/index.html
Title: Video: Teen saves 5-year-old from abduction
Post by: G M on July 15, 2013, 01:45:41 PM
http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/15/video-teen-saves-5-year-old-from-abduction/

Video: Teen saves 5-year-old from abduction


posted at 12:41 pm on July 15, 2013 by Ed Morrissey


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Fd31e02l3jk&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Fd31e02l3jk&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active



It’s midday on Monday, but it’s a good moment for a feel-good palate cleanser already on the main page (Allahpundit linked it in the Green Room earlier). We’ve received a few e-mails about Temar Boggs, who rescued a girl from an abductor and returned her to her family this weekend.  The teen got a feeling he was supposed to find the missing five-year-old, and his presence turned out to be the key:
 



That’s when, Boggs said, “I had the gut feeling that I was going to find the little girl.”
 
Read more: http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/872026_Lancaster-teen-Temar-Boggs-hailed-as-a-hero-in-5-year-old-s-abduction.html
 
A friend asked Boggs to hold his bike. Boggs figured the bike would help him search for the girl.
 
So he and another friend, Chris Garcia, rode on area streets — Michelle Drive, St. Phillips Drive, Gable Park Road — looking for her.
 
That’s when a maroon car caught his eye. (He had gotten a bit ahead of Garcia.)
 
The car was on Gable Park and turned around when it got near the top of a hill toward Millersville Pike, where Boggs said several police officers were gathered with the kind of cart used to carry an injured football player off the field.
 
The driver, an older white man, then began quickly turning onto and out of side streets connecting to Gable Park, Boggs said.
 
The neighborhood is something of a maze; many of its streets are cul-de-sacs.
 
Boggs got close enough to the car to see a little girl inside. Garcia was nearby.
 
The driver looked at Boggs and Garcia, then stopped the car at Gable Park and Betz Farm Road and pushed the girl out of the car. The driver then drove off, Boggs said.
 
Police are still looking for the suspect:
 

Police are still looking for the alleged kidnapper. Cops described him as a white man, between 50 and 70 years old, who walks with a limp. The car was described as a red or maroon-purple Chevy.
 
The girl’s family calls Boggs a hero, but Boggs himself demurs:
 

Boggs, meanwhile, said he doesn’t consider himself a hero.
 
“I’m just a normal person who did a thing that anybody else would do,” he said.
 
Both Boggs and Garcia are heroes for getting involved and helping to rescue the little girl.  These days, it’s too easy to remain passive in the face of evil.  We are fortunate that we still have young men willing to step up and act in a responsible manner to protect their communities.
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 15, 2013, 03:42:40 PM
Alert boy with initiative.  Respect.
Title: Alert 15 year old saves 5 year old girl.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 15, 2013, 09:50:42 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/justice/pennsylvania-teen-heroes/?iref=obinsite
Title: Cleveland man defends his family with his gun
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 21, 2013, 08:24:16 AM
http://bearingarms.com/ohio-man-shoots-gunmen-holding-his-fiance-at-gunpoint-and-earns-praise-from-city-councilman/
Title: French hero chokes out shotgun BG
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 26, 2013, 01:42:44 PM
http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/man-subdues-gunman-using-jiu-jitsu-choke-technique-avoids-shooting-massacre-in-a-french-cinema/
Title: 14 year old shoots armed intruder to defend his younger siblings
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 26, 2013, 01:44:55 PM
seconod post

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06/23/14-year-old-shoots-armed-intruder-while-babysitting-his-younger-siblings-in-phoenix/
Title: No waffling in Waffle House robbery attempt
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 29, 2013, 12:05:12 PM
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/police-would-be-waffle-house-bandit-shot-by-custom/nY6ny/
Title: 72 year f-ups knife wielding burglar
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 05, 2013, 08:07:58 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196479/Pictured-The-battered-bruised-face-burglar-got-wrong-72-year-old-boxer.html
Title: College students jack up armed robbers and capture them for arrest
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 30, 2013, 05:43:24 AM
http://www.nbc29.com/story/23292478/tables-turn-on-fontaine-avenue-robbery-suspects
Title: Teens Save Alleged Kidnap Victim
Post by: bigdog on September 06, 2013, 06:38:29 AM
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/texas-teens-save-alleged-kidnap-victim-mouthed-help-203006983--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
Title: Kenya: Hero ex-Royal Marine saves 100 from AQ
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 24, 2013, 07:43:20 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/24/armed-ex-royal-marine-saved-100-during-al-qaeda-ma/
Title: Re: Kenya: Hero ex-Royal Marine saves 100 from AQ
Post by: G M on September 24, 2013, 07:54:12 PM
.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/24/armed-ex-royal-marine-saved-100-during-al-qaeda-ma/

I wonder if he isn't still somehow in the service of her majesty
Title: Fencing Coach
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 01, 2013, 05:19:03 PM
http://www.newser.com/story/175160/fencing-coach-foils-crime-as-only-a-fencing-coach-can.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=inbox&utm_campaign=newser
Title: Women fired for helping catch shop-lifter
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 14, 2013, 09:59:05 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/14/hep-catch-a-robber-and-then-get-fired-for-it-thats-what-happened-to-an-18-year-employee-of-lowes/
Title: Man fired for defending self about knife wielding robber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 19, 2013, 09:11:25 AM
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2013/10/new-hampshire-clerk-fired-for-defending-himself-against-knife-wielding-robber.aspx
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 20, 2013, 09:33:35 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/19/walmart-offers-job-back-to-employee-fired-after-he-tried-to-help-assault-victim-in-parking-lot/
Title: What a great idea!
Post by: G M on October 23, 2013, 03:37:10 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive-westgate-interpol-chief-ponders-armed-citizenry/story?id=20637341

Exclusive: After Westgate, Interpol Chief Ponders 'Armed Citizenry'



Oct. 21, 2013

By JOSH MARGOLIN


Kenya Civilians who had been hiding during a gun battle hold their hands in the air as a precautionary measure before being searched by armed police leading them to safety, inside the Westgate Mall, Sept. 21, 2013.
Jonathan Kalan/AP Photo






 Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said today the U.S. and the rest of the democratic world is at a security crossroads in the wake of last month's deadly al-Shabab attack at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya – and suggested an answer could be in arming civilians.
 
In an exclusive interview with ABC News, Noble said there are really only two choices for protecting open societies from attacks like the one on Westgate mall where so-called "soft targets" are hit: either create secure perimeters around the locations or allow civilians to carry their own guns to protect themselves.
 
"Societies have to think about how they're going to approach the problem," Noble said. "One is to say we want an armed citizenry; you can see the reason for that. Another is to say the enclaves are so secure that in order to get into the soft target you're going to have to pass through extraordinary security."
 
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: bigdog on October 23, 2013, 06:36:00 PM
On that note, GM: did you see this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/africa/during-siege-at-kenyan-mall-government-forces-seemed-slow-to-respond.html?_r=0

From the article:

When the first shots of automatic gunfire burst out, Raju, a member of a local gun club, was waiting in line in a bank at the Westgate shopping mall. He crouched down, pulled out his phone and feverishly pecked out a text message: “I am inside and I can confirm this is not a robbery.”

Within minutes, his fellow gun club members, neighborhood watch volunteers, off-duty police officers and other armed Samaritans rushed to the mall. They found no command center, no SWAT team — in short, no coordinated government response as heavily armed Islamist militants shot civilians at will
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on October 23, 2013, 06:44:27 PM

Good info there. Thanks BD.

On that note, GM: did you see this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/world/africa/during-siege-at-kenyan-mall-government-forces-seemed-slow-to-respond.html?_r=0

From the article:

When the first shots of automatic gunfire burst out, Raju, a member of a local gun club, was waiting in line in a bank at the Westgate shopping mall. He crouched down, pulled out his phone and feverishly pecked out a text message: “I am inside and I can confirm this is not a robbery.”

Within minutes, his fellow gun club members, neighborhood watch volunteers, off-duty police officers and other armed Samaritans rushed to the mall. They found no command center, no SWAT team — in short, no coordinated government response as heavily armed Islamist militants shot civilians at will

Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: bigdog on October 23, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
You are quite welcome, GM. Thanks for the first article.
Title: Woman tomahawk champ vs. burglar
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 05, 2013, 10:33:42 AM
http://www.stickgrappler.net/2013/11/tomahawk-throwing-champ-scares-off.html
Title: Criminals' family wants to sue hero
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 12, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
http://eaglerising.com/2835/family-criminals-want-sue-hero-stopped/#IiBDI0vwMWpf1Jl1.01
Title: Stage 4 cancer survivor captures thief
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 13, 2013, 02:17:20 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2504931/Stage-4-Cancer-surviving-restaurant-owner-uses-martial-arts-combative-thief-stole-patrons-I-Phone-5.html
Title: bus driver is 'selfless heroine'
Post by: bigdog on November 21, 2013, 07:44:03 AM
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/21/derry-bus-driver-bomb-selfless-heroine?CMP=fb_gu
Title: Brave 76 yr old woman dies in shootout with three robbers, but gets one of them
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 02, 2013, 02:21:48 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516263/Defiant-76-year-old-woman-dies-shootout-gang-tried-rob-bingo-money.html
Title: biker gang protection, seriously
Post by: bigdog on December 02, 2013, 02:22:53 PM
http://distractify.com/people/bikers/

I love this. Verily.
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Quiet Dog on December 19, 2013, 10:17:33 AM
A little bus takedown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP6gGjuNRnc#!
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 19, 2013, 01:00:07 PM
Surprisingly fast reaction by the intended victim.
Title: Hero would not do it again
Post by: Karunamama on December 20, 2013, 09:54:38 AM
He says he wouldn't repeat his actions if he had the chance to do it again:

http://www.today.com/news/bus-rider-who-jumped-armed-robber-it-was-pure-instinct-2D11783266

In hindsight, Casey Borgen says he wouldn’t have confronted the armed thief. In reality, the hero jumped the gunman who had already taken several cell phones by the time he got to Borgen.

In a widely seen surveillance video from a Seattle city bus, the robber is seen walking up to his seated victim and pointing a gun at his face. Borgen immediately pulled the pistol out of the way and tackled the guy before other bus passengers helped subdue the suspect.

“From my perspective, I just looked up and saw the gun. A lot of people thought that it was a conscious action to try and take him down but it was something that was pure instinct,” he told TODAY on Friday in an exclusive interview. “I recall thinking as it was happening, it was a bad idea. Once that happened, it was one of those things where it had to be carried to its logical (end).”

The gunman, 19-year-old Trevonnte Brown, faces two counts of first-degree robbery, one count of attempted first-degree robbery and a second-degree robbery charge. He is being held on bond in King County jail.

Authorities released the surveillance video this week, although the incident occurred on Nov. 25. The video shows Borgen with his headphones on, lost in his thoughts listening to music when the gunman approached him.

“It was on shuffle. I honestly couldn’t tell you what I was listening to,” he said.

Borgen said he has thought a lot about that moment, and the idea of being mugged for a smart phone.

“It’s so preposterous, like, ‘You can take my phone,’” he said. He definitely wouldn’t repeat his actions if he had a chance to revisit the instant.

“But in the moment, with no real understanding about why a gun was being pointed at me, something came over me,” he said. “I didn’t have any sorts of thoughts about doing a good deed or anything. But the people who did, who jumped in, I think those are the people — they had the choice, and they chose to help.”

Borgen admitted his response amazed his friends and family, especially his wife. But it also surprised himself.

“I’m fairly mild-mannered, no martial arts training or anything like that. When I think about it rationally, I definitely wouldn’t have taken those actions but one thing led to another,” he said.

Borgen said he still commutes on the same Seattle bus and nothing about his daily routine has changed since that fateful day.

“It’s something that doesn’t happen very often,” he said. “I don’t think that not riding the bus is the answer.”
Title: Hero 14 year old Pakistani boy
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 11, 2014, 11:36:15 AM


http://abcnews.go.com/International/teen-dies-saving-classmates-suicide-bomber/story?id=21491486
Title: Re: Hero 14 year old Pakistani boy
Post by: G M on January 12, 2014, 06:09:06 AM


http://abcnews.go.com/International/teen-dies-saving-classmates-suicide-bomber/story?id=21491486

Heroic.
Title: The well armed unorganized militia to the rescue once again
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 01, 2014, 10:42:28 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/31/he-burst-into-the-restaurant-with-a-gun-and-tried-to-rob-the-place-then-things-went-almost-as-wrong-as-they-could-for-him/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=ShareButtons
Title: Teenager suspended for doing the right thing.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 14, 2014, 11:57:46 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/13/teenager-gets-suspended-from-school-for-doing-something-awesome-and-hes-not-even-upset/
Title: Are you the one harassing my little girl?
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 14, 2014, 12:00:04 PM
second post

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/13/are-you-the-one-harassing-my-little-girl-thats-what-a-father-asked-right-before-things-spun-out-of-control/
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 20, 2014, 10:40:53 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/19/crooks-bust-into-house-mom-warns-she-has-a-gun-they-say-no-you-dont-she-changes-their-minds/
Title: Re: The Unorganzied Militia: Citizens defend themselves/others.
Post by: G M on February 20, 2014, 10:50:55 AM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02/19/crooks-bust-into-house-mom-warns-she-has-a-gun-they-say-no-you-dont-she-changes-their-minds/


As usual, the media fcuks everything up. That's not a shotgun pictured in the article.
Title: Armed woman saves woman from armed robber
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 02, 2014, 09:01:11 PM


http://readychimp.com/2014/04/01/video-woman-with-gun-saves-another-woman-from-armed-robber/
Title: Armed damsel saves man in distress; first CCW event in Chicago
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 10, 2014, 11:10:17 AM
care1st.com/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cops-no-charges-for-man-with-concealed-carry-permit-who-fired-at-armed-male-20140405,0,2472485.story
Title: Citizen saves LEO
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 17, 2014, 09:18:28 AM
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/13/man-who-saved-cops-life/

I note that considerable care is given in sentence structure so as to leave the gender of the officer unmentioned, , , Nonetheless, a good and happy story.  This is the way it should be and is for most of us most of the time.
Title: Pizzaman shoots attackers in NY
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 19, 2014, 02:39:26 PM
http://wivb.com/2014/04/15/pizza-deliveryman-opens-fire-to-fend-off-attackers/
Title: CCW in action in Texas
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 29, 2014, 04:03:46 PM


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/29/two-suspects-who-dragged-mom-across-a-parking-lot-get-a-swift-lesson-in-texas-concealed-carry-law/
Title: Jogger finds meth lab, is attacked, fights back
Post by: Karunamama on May 08, 2014, 10:16:06 AM
http://thesouthern.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/jogger-discovers-meth-lab-attacked-fights-off-assailants/article_982f363b-07e8-5c2e-b0ed-d25ac33af258.html


BENTON — No charges are anticipated against a man who confronted two men accused of making methamphetamine on his property, leaving one of the men hospitalized and the other in jail, Franklin County Sheriff Don Jones said.

The man, whose name was not released, told deputies he was jogging in rural Royalton about 8 p.m. Tuesday when he spotted a vehicle on property owned by his family. The jogger called 911 after he approached the vehicle and saw two men with a methamphetamine lab cooking in the back seat of the car.

The jogger told deputies the two men attacked him, prompting him to pick up a 2x4 to protect himself, Jones said. He struck one man on the head and hit the other on the arm.

The man with head injuries, whose name was not released, was taken to Herrin Hospital and subsequently airlifted to a St. Louis hospital for medical treatment.

The second suspect, identified as Johnny M. Doerflein, 39, Du Quoin, ran from the property but was later taken into custody. He is charged with a number of drug-related offenses including possession of methamphetamine, over 400 grams but less than 900, a class X felony.

Doerflein suffered only minor injuries and was taken to Franklin County Jail.

Charges are pending against the second suspect.
Title: Homeowner with AR 15 wins against burglar w 9mm
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 14, 2014, 01:58:19 PM


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/13/this-armed-home-invasion-couldve-ended-tragically-but-under-homeowners-bed-was-an-item-that-gives-the-anti-gun-crowd-nightmares/
Title: Re: Homeowner with AR 15 wins against burglar w 9mm
Post by: G M on May 14, 2014, 01:59:21 PM


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/13/this-armed-home-invasion-couldve-ended-tragically-but-under-homeowners-bed-was-an-item-that-gives-the-anti-gun-crowd-nightmares/

Handguns poke holes, rifles and shotguns tear things apart.
Title: Conceal Carry permits
Post by: prentice crawford on May 26, 2014, 08:17:54 PM
Kentucky legislature clearing way for more gun permits.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-general-assembly/2014/05/23/ky-legislature-clearing-way-gun-permits/9489225/

 Story Highlights
State police issued 59,530 concealed-carry licenses in 2013, a 447 percent increase since 2004.
The legislature has passed at least a dozen measures over the past decade to give permit-holders more flexibility


FRANKFORT, Ky. –  The number of gun permits issued in Kentucky has quadrupled over the past 10 years, thanks in part to at least a dozen measures the General Assembly has passed to ease restrictions in the state's concealed carry law.

State police issued 59,530 concealed-carry licenses in 2013, a 447 percent increase from the 10,884 that were given out in 2004. More than twice as many people received a permit last year as compared to 2012, when a school shooting in Newtown, Conn., raised fears of tightened gun laws.

Meanwhile, the state legislature has passed at least a dozen measures over the past decade — often with support from the National Rifle Association — to speed up the application process and gradually give permit-holders more flexibility.

RELATED: Changes to Kentucky gun laws

A review of the legislative record dating back to 2004 shows that statutes on concealed weapons have been amended in the following ways:

• Active and honorably discharged military personnel who apply for licenses are no longer required to undergo training on state laws related to legal liability and the use of deadly force, if they received firearms training in the service.

• Domestic violence victims can receive a temporary, 45-day permit without completing the normally required training on firearms safety and state law.

• Firearms, loaded or unloaded, may be stored in more places about a vehicle — including center consoles and seat pockets — without being considered concealed. And employers cannot prevent employees from keeping guns in their car while at work.

• Officials are required to process applications at a faster rate. KSP must issue or deny permits within 60 days, down from 90, or within 15 days if the paperwork is submitted electronically.

• Public access to the names of licensees have been eliminated, and access to the information by law enforcement has been tightened.

• A six-month state residency requirement in applications has been eliminated.

• Gun owners have been granted authority to carry concealed weapons without a license on property they lease or own, or on property leased or owned by a relative. They may also carry in their own business without a license.

• Retired peace officers and prosecutors have gained broad authority above that of the general public to carry in most locations throughout the state, including courthouses and bars.

Pulling back restrictions

Kentucky has issued around 300,000 licenses since the state's concealed carry law was enacted in 1996, and the permits can be renewed after five years.

Proponents say the changes help Kentuckians exercise Second Amendment rights and eliminate unnecessary constraints from the law's original language.

"The benefit of doing that is you make it easier on our citizens to carry a concealed deadly weapon for the protection of their family and themselves," said Rep. Bob Damron, D-Nicholasville, who sponsored the original law and has backed many of its amendments.

But critics charge that lawmakers, working under the National Rifle Association's political grip, have set the stage for more violence and deadly gun accidents.

Rep. Jim Wayne, a Louisville Democrat who has opposed revisions to the law, said that when he started in the legislature 24 years ago, lawmakers were cautious about concealed-carry bills. But Wayne said he has witnessed a sea change.

"It's pretty obvious that the NRA and their advocates are strategically trying to make it easier for society to be saturated with guns," he said. "They are doing that step by step, and the steps have increased their pace in the last several years."

The NRA did not respond to a request for comment. Still, the group has spoken out in support of at least five bills on concealed carry since 2004, including a 2014 gun bill that marked one of the largest reforms in at least nine years.

That measure, among other things, allowed electronic applications, permitted temporary licenses for domestic violence victims and let corrections officers use their professional training to satisfy training requirements in permit applications — all deemed "important pro-gun reforms" by the NRA.

Some lawmakers argue that Kentucky hasn't gone far enough.

Republican Rep. Mike Harmon, for instance, has filed bills to allow concealed carry without a permit, and said lifting restrictions is popular among the voters he represents in Boyle and Washington counties.

"We create laws to protect people," Harmon said, "but some of our laws prevent people from protecting themselves."

This year's major gun bill passed 92-6 in the Democrat-led House and 37-1 in the GOP-controlled Senate.

Typically, only a handful of urban legislators vote against such bills, said Rep. Wayne. That's because the NRA has convinced rural lawmakers in both parties that they cannot win re-election without the group's approval, he said.

"The dominant way of thinking right now is the NRA and their agenda," Wayne said. "It's unfortunate, but I don't see it reversing course anytime soon."

The NRA has only contributed $3,450 to state House and Senate candidates since 2004, but lawmakers say they are effective at tracking and scoring the voting records of each legislator — and communicating that information to voters.

Damron agreed that many lawmakers want a strong score from the NRA come election time.

"They have a large network of membership in the state that are active and vocal and will get out and work for candidates they support their views and will work against candidates that don't support their views," he said.

Other states

The Kentucky legislature isn't alone in its efforts, according to groups that monitor gun laws.

Expanding concealed carry in public spaces and "weakening" the requirements for people to have hidden weapons has remained a priority of the pro-gun lobby and a trend across the nation, said Allison S. Anderman, staff attorney for the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Anderman said "states are going from 'may issue' to 'shall issue' " in laws that stipulate who can receive a permit.

Kentucky has used the "shall issue" approach since the concealed-carry statute took effect in 1996, which means authorities are required to issue permits so long as applicants meet objective criteria.

But a 2012 report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office shows that the number of "shall issue" states grew from 29 to 39 over the prior decade and states that prohibited concealed carry altogether fell from seven to just one: Illinois.

Since then, Illinois has lost a legal battle with gun advocates and, under court order, passed legislation to allow concealed carry. Now, only Washington D.C. does not permit concealed firearms.

Also, the Law Center reported last year that Kentucky is one of 17 states that requires authorities to issue permits without discretion.

Nine states allow authorities to consider an applicant's character and reasons for wanting a concealed weapon when issuing or denying permits, and 20 other states, like Indiana, have some limited discretion on who qualifies. Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming don't require a permit at all, the center noted.

'A very functional law'

Groups on both sides of the debate point to differing studies on the relationship between concealed carry and crime.

The NRA argues, for example, that violent crime declined to a 37-year low in 2010 as states lifted prohibitions on carrying firearms.

But the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence points to a 2005 study from the National Academy of Sciences that found no causal link between such laws and crime rates.

"The research has demonstrated that guns do not make us safer and actually the more guns that are available, the more likelihood there is for gun violence," Anderman said. "Normal escalations between people can turn deadly when there is a gun available."

Still, Damron said Kentucky's law has proved successful and that the legislature is mostly working to "clean up" language in the statute, not make wholesale changes.

"Generally speaking, I think the original intent of the '96 act has been maintained over the last 18 years, and we still have a very functional law," he said.

                                                                                       P.C.
Title: SW Browne: Heroes
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 13, 2014, 07:33:25 PM


http://www.theatlasphere.com/columns/100118-browne-heroes.php
Title: Heads up
Post by: prentice crawford on March 13, 2015, 07:41:16 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/comey-warns-islamic-state-recruits-lone-wolf-attacks-144616036.html (http://news.yahoo.com/comey-warns-islamic-state-recruits-lone-wolf-attacks-144616036.html)

FBI chief warns of Islamic State recruits, lone wolf attacks

Reuters
By Doina Chiacu
March 12, 2015 12:20 PM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The radicalization of Americans by Islamic State and other groups, particularly through sophisticated use of social media, is a top concern for the FBI as it grapples with evolving terrorism threats, Director James Comey said on Thursday.

Like other militant groups, Islamic State, also known as ISIL, has called for lone wolf attacks in Western countries and has specifically encouraged attacks on soldiers, law enforcement officers and the intelligence community, Comey said at an appropriations subcommittee budget hearing.

Comey referred to the group's efforts to recruit Americans to join Islamic State fighting in Syria and Iraq, then have them return to the United States to commit acts of terrorism.

"ISIL's widespread reach through the Internet and social media is most concerning as the group has proven dangerously competent at employing such tools for its nefarious strategy," Comey told the panel as he presented his $8.48 billion budget request for fiscal year 2016.

"This poses an enormous challenge to us: to find the people who are responding to that siren song," Comey said.


U.S. National Intelligence Director James Clapper said early this month that about 180 Americans have traveled to Syria to join Islamist militants and about 40 have returned to the United States.

Comey called the threats posed by such foreign fighters and from homegrown violent extremists "extremely dynamic." He did not cite updated figures on American foreign fighters before the panel recessed to go into classified session.

Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein asked Comey about a more tangible piece of that threat: that known or suspected terrorists are not banned from buying guns in the United States.

She cited a General Accountability Office report that, from 2004 to 2014, 91 percent of the 2,233 known or suspected terrorists on the federal terrorism watchlist who tried to buy a firearm were successful in passing a background check.

"We can have people come into this country meaning to do us harm and they can go in and buy a weapon to carry it out. That's simply unacceptable," said Feinstein.

"Your biggest concern is the lone wolf. The lone wolf can come in unarmed, he can buy the explosives, he can buy the gun. This must be stopped."

She asked where the Obama administration stood on legislation to prevent the sale of firearms and explosives to people on the watchlist. Comey replied that he did not know.

(Reporting by Doina Chiacu; Editing by Bill Trott and Christian Plumb)

                                                                     P.C.

Title: Brazil: Homeless man dies fighting gunman to save woman
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 07, 2015, 09:52:39 AM
http://www.unilad.co.uk/articles/homeless-man-dies-fighting-gunman-to-save-woman/
Title: Concealed Carry saves lives!
Post by: G M on June 02, 2016, 12:21:02 PM
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/01/remember-when-obama-lectured-kimberly-corban-on-firearm-safety-well-her-story-saved-this-womans-life/

Stuttering moron in the white house not available for comment.
Title: CCW stopping mass shootings
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 14, 2016, 09:38:11 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/
Title: The Unorganzied Militia in France
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 24, 2016, 08:45:28 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/23/world/europe/france-terrorist-attacks.html?emc=edit_th_20160823&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=49641193&_r=1
Title: Citizen saves cop by shooting bad guy
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 15, 2016, 05:58:22 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/15/passerby-shoots-kills-motorist-assaulting-deputy-after-traffic-stop.html
Title: OK son drops three home invaders with AR-15
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 27, 2017, 09:11:51 PM
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/local/three-dead-after-broken-arrow-area-homeowner-s-son-shoots/article_64c15c80-0019-56d6-9322-c1b93c0ff5d0.html?mode=jqm
Title: Re: OK son drops three home invaders with AR-15
Post by: G M on March 27, 2017, 09:13:52 PM
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/local/three-dead-after-broken-arrow-area-homeowner-s-son-shoots/article_64c15c80-0019-56d6-9322-c1b93c0ff5d0.html?mode=jqm

Nice!
Title: Re: OK son drops three home invaders with AR-15
Post by: DDF on March 28, 2017, 10:14:24 AM
http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/local/three-dead-after-broken-arrow-area-homeowner-s-son-shoots/article_64c15c80-0019-56d6-9322-c1b93c0ff5d0.html?mode=jqm

Things that make your heart warm.   :-D
Title: South African construction workers stop carjacking
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 13, 2017, 11:47:00 AM
http://lekkerblog.co.za/construction-workers-throw-bricks-at-hijackers-to-help-home-owner-escape/
Title: Suarez is correct
Post by: G M on June 05, 2017, 01:45:25 PM
http://blog.suarezinternational.com/2017/06/the-real-solution-to-terrorist-knife-attacks.html

THE "REAL" SOLUTION TO JIHADIST KNIFE ATTACKS
Sunday, June 04, 2017

98b76b06eb9525a4d21c6407ff290114de3306feeee6dca406d83f1dd4aa8d7b_3970121

"One of them had a big knife, then he came in and walked around the restaurant,  I guess they just kind of stabbed anyone that they saw and knocked things on the ground and then we just hid."

So this last weekend - mid Ramadan (but the UK authorities are adamant that has nothing to do with it) - yet another series of well coordinated attacks in London.  The timing was on cue, and the technology was primitive, yet the effect was successful.  The weapons were simple: Aggression, Motor Vehicles, and Knives.  Unless the nanny-state wishes to now castrate the aggression out of all males, prohibit all sharp instruments in an Okinawan-like decree, and force everyone to use public transportation, the ability of the state to prevent the next one is ridiculously impossible as long as the culture that advocates such things is allowed to roam free in the west.

That last bit is out of the hands of normal people like us, yet we are the ones that will stand at the front line of the effects of the political decisions made by those in charge.  And we will either stand as ready sacrifices to the death cult, or as combatants.  Britain seems to have already chosen out of their self-imposed helplessness. Soon the west, and Europe in particular, will either find its warrior heart and embrace the old ways, or it will be bent over the table and given its fate.

In this article, which I am certain will upset the "martial arts" guys, I will discuss the reality of facing a jihadist with a knife bent of "stabbing anyone they see".  I will discuss "The Jihadist Vehicle Attacks" later.

So here we go -

1).  Forget the fantasy of empty hand defenses:

Do not think for one minute that your secret Jujitsu or Kung Fu methods will guarantee you winning against a dedicated, motivated, young and fit jihadist armed with a big knife intent on killing you.  Add to that his expectation of dying that day...add to that his accomplices, also armed with knives, and you get a clearer picture.  And winning does not mean 7 out of 10 in the drills at the dojo...it means we want a solid chance at a 100% success rate because anything less means that you die.  Your chances may be better if you have devoted your entire life to nothing but full contact martial arts training (and if your adversaries are unskilled)...but otherwise...unarmed against the knife is a very foolish match to go into.

2).  Instead of going Jackie Chan, use a weapon:

Yes, I know...it may mean violating the rules.  As I have said...and it is almost a cliche now...we live in a time of war and we must make adjustments to the reality and accept that the authorities cannot prevent these events from taking place.  So if you live in a free state, carry a firearm with you - EVERYWHERE.  Ignore the sign if there is one saying you cannot.  If you live in a not so free state, carry a firearm with you anyway and always obey the speed limit.  If you live in a country intentionally bereft of any warrior culture, see item three.

3).  Always be armed no matter the rules:

"But Gabe...we live in (insert oppressed socialist state or nation here) and we can't even buy a picture of a gun here".

A modern, educated man with a set of nuts in his bag will always figure out a way to be armed.  No guns?  OK, get your own knife.  Knife versus knife is a far better proposition than unarmed versus knife is it not?  My God, at the very least get a big fat stick that you can claim is a cane and that you can crush skulls with.  It really is not that difficult if there is courage, and a will, and a defiant heart that denies the state's right to control your destiny.

"But Gabe, the rules say I cannot have guns, knives, sticks, anything that could possibly be used as a weapon and they are about to pass laws banning ill will".

When you cannot live in safety, and in obedience to the established law, a learned man will happily become a scofflaw.  If you disagree with that, I really have nothing for you.  Sorry...good luck.

4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training.  Too much sport.  Too much esoteric spiritual stuff.  Not enough violence.  We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were.  I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem.  And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones.  The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach.  But again, see item 1.  I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face  against a knife empty handed.

5).  Learn preemption:

It is 2017.  Are we already forgetting that there is a true social-religious-political culture living in the west...in truth invited by the west, that seeks to supplant western culture by force and attrition with its own culture?  If you see a couple of strong young men, that look like they just got off the boat from Afghanistan moving aggressively toward you with knives in their hands - do we really need to have a time out to explain what their intentions are for you?

This is the time to draw and shoot each one of them to the ground, not running or hiding. 

6).  Keep alert:

All the weapons and willingness to violence will not help you in the least if you are asleep at the bar.  The first part of all this is staying alert.  Sit where you can see the exit, have your back covered or have an equally alert associate watching it.  Look around constantly and know who is moving and what is happening.  Don't want to live like that you say?  Well, western nations, you should have thought about that before you invited the death cult into your country, or voted for fools that did so.  You live in a time of war and you will either deny it and hope you are not selected by the next jihadist, or you accept reality and prepare to meet him.

That is all.  There are no secret techniques to defend against the knife by physically frail and empty handed males.  It takes violence and weapons.  And in that order.
Title: Re: Suarez is correct
Post by: DDF on June 05, 2017, 10:25:21 PM

3).  Always be armed no matter the rules:

"But Gabe...we live in (insert oppressed socialist state or nation here) and we can't even buy a picture of a gun here".

A modern, educated man with a set of nuts in his bag will always figure out a way to be armed.  No guns?  OK, get your own knife.  Knife versus knife is a far better proposition than unarmed versus knife is it not?  My God, at the very least get a big fat stick that you can claim is a cane and that you can crush skulls with.  It really is not that difficult if there is courage, and a will, and a defiant heart that denies the state's right to control your destiny.

"But Gabe, the rules say I cannot have guns, knives, sticks, anything that could possibly be used as a weapon and they are about to pass laws banning ill will".

When you cannot live in safety, and in obedience to the established law, a learned man will happily become a scofflaw.  If you disagree with that, I really have nothing for you.  Sorry...good luck.


Been preaching and living by that for years.... a lot of people, even within the Tribe, don't like that. 


4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training.  Too much sport.  Too much esoteric spiritual stuff.  Not enough violence.  We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were.  I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem.  And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones.  The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach.  But again, see item 1.  I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face  against a knife empty handed.


There should be more teachers around, that have actually killed people.

The two (sports and training vs actually doing it), are completely different things and mindsets.

Good article.
Title: Re: Suarez is correct
Post by: G M on June 05, 2017, 11:23:51 PM
The rule of law is important. However, when the rule of law stops protecting the people, and instead victimizes them, then it is time to reexamine society's rules.




3).  Always be armed no matter the rules:

"But Gabe...we live in (insert oppressed socialist state or nation here) and we can't even buy a picture of a gun here".

A modern, educated man with a set of nuts in his bag will always figure out a way to be armed.  No guns?  OK, get your own knife.  Knife versus knife is a far better proposition than unarmed versus knife is it not?  My God, at the very least get a big fat stick that you can claim is a cane and that you can crush skulls with.  It really is not that difficult if there is courage, and a will, and a defiant heart that denies the state's right to control your destiny.

"But Gabe, the rules say I cannot have guns, knives, sticks, anything that could possibly be used as a weapon and they are about to pass laws banning ill will".

When you cannot live in safety, and in obedience to the established law, a learned man will happily become a scofflaw.  If you disagree with that, I really have nothing for you.  Sorry...good luck.


Been preaching and living by that for years.... a lot of people, even within the Tribe, don't like that. 


4). Learn to be violent:

This is why I am not impressed with the majority of martial arts training.  Too much sport.  Too much esoteric spiritual stuff.  Not enough violence.  We need more "martial", and less "art" - as it were.  I expect that today, the Monday after the London Bridge attack, the martial arts schools in the UK (and USA) will be filled with eager soccer moms and football dads (cricket-moms and rugby-dads?) looking for the easy solution to this problem.  And they will be taught esoteric stuff intended for the "perfection of character", or stuff developed for winning a match somewhere.

What they need is to be taught to physically destroy their opponent, crushing windpipes, smashing skulls, breaking bones.  The "real karate" that so few schools even understand much less teach.  But again, see item 1.  I have trained in hand to hand stuff since I was ten years old and I would prefer to not face  against a knife empty handed.


There should be more teachers around, that have actually killed people.

The two (sports and training vs actually doing it), are completely different things and mindsets.

Good article.
Title: The correct response
Post by: G M on June 11, 2017, 09:59:53 AM
(http://i2.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2017/06/Alt-TYerror-Warning.jpeg)
Title: Redondo Beach
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 12, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
https://www.easyreadernews.com/residents-tackle-rb-robbery-suspect/?utm_source=Daily+News&utm_campaign=4fa2163c1a-Daily_EMAIL_NEWSLETTER&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b41a925468-4fa2163c1a-286697493
Title: A Well-armed plumber in Texas
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 06, 2017, 09:13:41 AM
http://nypost.com/2017/11/06/sharpshooting-plumber-fired-shot-that-took-down-texas-church-gunman/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=facebook_app
Title: Church Safety
Post by: G M on November 06, 2017, 10:54:28 AM
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/church-safety

Church Safety
Posted on November 6, 2017 by Greg Ellifritz in Articles


This is a guest post written by long-time police trainer Ron Borsch.  Ron has been a friend for many years and has done more research on active killer events than likely anyone else in the world.

 

Ron is now semi-retired and looking to write a little more.  He will be contributing a few articles for this site in the future.  He still teaches some private police defensive tactics and active killer response classes.  He is also available for consultations.  His full bio and contact info are at the bottom of the article.

 

And now, I give you Ron Borsch….

 

 

Church Safety
by Ron Borsch

One would imagine that among different locations, places of worship would be a safe haven and we would not have to be concerned about safety from violence there. Unfortunately, churches are not the sanctuary they once were. Here we are not talking about mere arson, assault, burglary, mugging, rape, or robbery. Even worse, churches can and have been the site of murder, multiple murders, and “Rapid Mass Murder”©*, (RMM or attempts). About a year ago, churches were the third most commonly targeted location by active killers, after Schools, (K-12), and Colleges/Universities.

 

For sure, and thank God, RMM is far from a common occurrence anywhere. But it sure sucks when the fickle finger of fate picks your location and you for a RMM incident. The active killer* is attracted to where his health, welfare and safety are insured. An active killer magnet is where they can find unarmed defenseless innocents. Locations where a law, rule or sign forbids honest, law-abiding or otherwise legally permitted citizens to possess firearms become virtual target locations for these active killers who are anticipating being an “unstoppable” force there. The sometimes astonishing rapidity with which they can murder initiated our “Stopwatch of Death”©* database.

 

WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE ACTIVE KILLER
Active killer’s ages are something we need to research further. What is known is that our human brains are not fully matured until about age 25 and some authorities place maturity as late as age 30. It is also known that “juveniles” are more affected and motivated by the powerful “Copycat Effect”, most common in schools today. Aided by the media, affected youth are attracted by the “Instant Celebrity Status”© that catapults them from being nobody to suddenly becoming “famous”, (alive or deceased, in their sick minds). A serious contributing affect found in many active killers has been obsessiveness with playing killing video games. An information resource on this is the book “Stop Teaching Kids To Kill” by Dave Grossman.

 

Uncharacteristically, church active killers may or may not have any attachment to the church they strike. Their real or imagined grievances may only be known to them. Quite commonly, active killers are seriously affected by “Numerous Unstable & Troubling Symptoms”©. They also may have differing unreasonable and illogical motives for choosing the site of their murdering such as a church, restaurant, school, theater, workplace, etc. With some exceptions and generally, pre & post teen active killers normally target their present or former schools, young adult active killers as a rule target their present or former Colleges-Universities and active killer ages typical to the workplace target their present or former workplaces.

 

AN OVERVIEW OF RAPID MASS MURDER FACTORS
One thing to keep in mind is that generally, only about half of RMM is ever stopped by anyone, meaning in those cases that the murdering stops only when the killer says it stops. Seconds are golden considering that we have at least two RMM examples documenting that more than one attempted murder per second is possible, so time is a huge handicap. Most of us have complete confidence in the quality and responsiveness of our local law enforcement agency, but unfortunately, police are most handicapped by TIME.

 

Why? There is a regrettable but natural delay in notifying law enforcement. Of little known delayed notification times, expert Ed Sanow says that this time delay ranges between five and seven minutes. Try to understand that for those whose safety is seriously endangered, notifying law enforcement may be the last thing on their mind. People not yet aware they are in danger may experience denial that evil may be on their very door step. For example, thinking something real “can’t be happening” or concluding that gunfire must be fireworks instead of calling police right away.

 

When law enforcement is finally notified, there is additional call-taking time, dispatching time, officer response time, officer entry time, locating the killer time, Etc. While the size of your community is known, just how distant the closest officer will be is always an unknown. Here are a couple of examples. In a 2008 Finland RMM event, (10 were killed in 10 minutes), there was a known 6 minute delay in notifying law enforcement, then a 14 minute police response time. In the 2011 Tucson AZ 15 second incident, (6 killed, 13 wounded), the time delay in notifying police is unknown, but response time afterwards was 4 minutes.

 

A recommended reading resource on the subject is “Guns in Churches Addressing Church Security Needs” – a report from the Mennonite Mutual Insurance Co.

 

We suggest that church leaders read the full MMI article and their pro and con three options. MMI does note: “Allowing or encouraging people to carry weapons into church with no written policy or specialized training creates a huge liability issue and should be avoided. Regardless of which option is chosen, church leaders should consider posting their policy regarding weapons in and around the church building,”

 

Insurance companies are sensitive to risks and pay-outs. Kudos to them for even broaching the subject. Some of their advice is based in part of avoiding liability for a firearm mishap in the church. On the other hand, “Rapid Mass Murder”© by an active killer, while a very low frequency event, is also a very brutal mass tragedy event. Knowing that churches have been targeted by these murderers, a place of worship bears responsibility for reasonable protection efforts on behalf of their flock. These days, a sanctuary needs to be enforced!

 

In the MMI summary, they advise: “No one can completely stop bad things from happening, it is unfortunately part of our human condition and the society we live in. However, a well-designed plan can reduce not only the severity, but also the level of liability a church may encounter if, or when, something tragic does occur. At the end of the day, we must be able to say as good stewards, “We trusted God and did our very best to care for the people and property entrusted to our care.”

 

CHURCH SAFETY AND SECURITY COST

While unarmed citizens have successfully stopped the killing, many have died trying. Still, bare-handed against a firearm, (even a knife or club), is very, very dangerous. In some ways, an armed volunteer church safety and security team may not be the best solution, but it is an enviable problem solver for the church that cannot afford the expense involved with hiring professionals. Anyone can have a “champagne taste” but many of us have to deal with the reality of a “beer budget.”

 

In planning ahead, we can learn something from the analogy, “One is none and two is one.” The point is that support personnel assistance, (and duplicating equipment), is important. Thinking about minimizing the minimum? Stuff happens! Understand that assigned folks can get sick at church, (like the flu), or a team member not show up at all, (injured in an on-route traffic accident, etc.). It is safer to have more than a skeleton crew for unforeseen eventualities.

 

CHURCH SAFETY AND SECURITY TEAM PLANNING

Properly done, volunteers or professionals would still require a team. For example, a small church may get by with a team of two plainclothes, front and rear corner outside isle positions, (alternating left-right to the opposite side each week). An improvement would be an additional member in place as or near a greeter at the door, and another enhancement would be a member in a car in the parking lot, able to watch the mannerisms and “tells” of folks coming in cars and or walking towards the church. Consider that a mega-church would of course require a far larger staff. By the way, the Colorado Springs Church CO mega-church in 2007 had a successful stop-the-killing response from one, (of several), volunteer armed church guards. Jeanne Assam stopped a rifleman bearing multiple firearms and carrying hundreds of rounds who had already murdered that day.

 

ON-SITE VOLUNTEER ARMED CHURCH SECURITY OPTION

A member of the congregation will be far more familiar with fellow parishioners, the building and the differences between what is normal and what is not. In Ohio, a CCW permit holder is allowed to carry in a church, providing that the church has given him or her permission in writing. Applicants with former military or law enforcement experience generally should be given first preference. Of course, only a CCW permit would be a bare minimum for those content with mediocrity or less. For example, many CCW course instructors are not permitted to use targets resembling a human.

 

This is horrible “Target Habituation”© to prepare volunteers for the possibility of justifiable homicide against an evil rogue-human bent on murder. Training targets must be armed and closely resemble a real human being, which means a face. In Dave Grossman and Gloria DeGaetano’s book Stop Teaching Kids To Kill, on targets, they speak of “World War II bulls-eye targets in training did not properly prepare soldiers for combat since they were not humans or even simulated humans…shooting bulls-eyes do not teach what it takes to look at another human being in the eyes, lift up a weapon, and knowingly try to take their life.”

 

Normal folks may agree that having anyone in a uniform would routinely deter trouble makers, but active killers are of course NOT normal people. While the typical active killer may be a coward with suicidal tendencies, there have been some very determined active killers. For example, the original plan of the Columbine killers was to first assassinate the School Resource Officer where and when he usually had his lunch (he was not there then). What we can learn from this is that with a very determined active killer, a uniformed guard could be the very first victim of RMM. Therefore, a “Plainclothes Surprise” is recommended.

 

“We suggest, you decide”

 

About the author: Ron Borsch is a staff instructor for the Kent Martial Arts Club and a Viet Nam veteran, (1965-66 U.S. Army 101st Airborne Paratrooper). Ron’s 30 year law enforcement career included 20 years as Rangemaster, Pistol Team Captain and 17 years as a SWAT operator and trainer. Concluding his law enforcement career and retaining a police commission, he semi-retired as an agency consultant. Along with support from the 7 SEALE Chiefs of Police from 1998 to 2015, Ron initiated, managed and was the lead trainer for the post-graduate facility SEALE Regional Police Training Academy in Bedford Ohio. The academy served over one hundred law enforcement agencies from 9 states. He is nationally recognized for his research documenting the 7 out of 10 successes of “Single Officer’s Lifesaving Others”© in police responses to “Rapid Mass Murder”© by active killers. Ron has presented various subjects in several different states to fellow officers, national and international instructor audiences and Chiefs of Police.

Contact is by E-mail only for now: rbi0075@juno.com.
Explanation of terms:

Rapid Mass Murder© (or RMM): “Within 20 minutes, 4 or more murdered at the same time and public place”. In the “Stopwatch of Death” database, attempts of RMM are also counted. Not counted are the criminal actions of police, military, terrorists or street gangs.
Stopwatch of Death©: The SWD is factoring RMM and attempts, (wounded), together divided, (when known), by the killing time. For example, the SWD factor for Columbine High School, (1999 Littleton CO), was 02.9 murder attempts per minute. Two RMM events were over in 15 seconds, having SWD factors of 88.0 and 76.0 murder attempts per minute, (1996 Tasmania Australia, and 2011 Tucson Arizona respectively).
Active Killer: “One who commits Rapid Mass Murder”. This includes murder by any means. The active killer term is not interchangeable with the two totally neutral words, “active shooter”
Title: The Texas hero speaks
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 06, 2017, 07:52:45 PM
http://www.4029tv.com/article/man-who-shot-texas-church-gunman-shares-his-story/13437943
Title: Once again the Unorganized Militia backs up law enforcement
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 06, 2017, 11:28:02 AM
https://www.officer.com/tactical/firearms/news/20984912/bystander-shoots-suspect-beating-dawson-county-georgia-sheriffs-deputy-sgt-randy-harkness?utm_source=Officer.com+Newsday+E-Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CPS171130002&o_eid=2450A5959134B2V&rdx.ident%5Bpull%5D=omeda%7C2450A5959134B2V
Title: Guardian Angels in UK
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 26, 2018, 10:48:16 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5311723/Pitsea-Guardian-Angels-say-Essex-Poice-dont-want-us.html
Title: Burglar regrets robbing ex Hells Angel
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 27, 2018, 11:21:30 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-palomar-thief-20180227-story.html
Title: Suarez: Getting to the Shot Part One
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 17, 2019, 01:15:02 PM
GETTING TO THE SHOT - PART 1

Today on my forum, warriortalk.com, a member commented in incredulity on the El Paso shooting. That a place like Texas, with so many CCW licensees, and likely many in the Walmart being covertly armed, that nobody shot the gunman. The same could be said of any mass shooting that takes place in any state where CCW is prolific. A great question.

Here is what I think.

1). Most people, whether police or private citizens, have a trained aversion to kill and will do everything possible to not engage. The guys that interdict active shooters are outliers in society. When most people on scene are of the violence-avoidance types, they will most likely not engage the shooter. See my prior articles on Fear Aggression , and The Predator Mind.

2). The information flow is always the same, but many will not be able to process it fast enough to act upon it. A great deal has to do with proximity, but also what the individual’s perception of events is. The man on scene receives information first hand but may or may not understand it.

Were those shots?
Why are people running?
Where is the shooter?
What does he look like?
What can I do?
What will I do?

The more internal debate that takes place, the more one will talk themselves out of action and into submission or flight. And CCW folk are nothing special. They are everyday average people that happen to have a pistol with them, but their self-identity is no different from the fleeing masses of victims. Running to cover with everyone else and allowing someone “more qualified” is far more comfortable than doing the opposite of the herd, and I expect many will take the easy way out. And they likely have already prepared a myriad of “reasonable” excuses to justify themselves.

The flow of information for police may be different as they are receiving justification data on the radio. But at the risk of being labelled anti-police, I saw the same thing when I was on the job. Officers who had the shot, were justified ten times over, but failed to act. Society has not changed and police that come from that society will not be very different.

The officers that speed to the scene to kill the gunman are outliers in their field and likely passing by other officers that are somehow not moving as fast…or not taking the same direct route to contact…or are waylaid by victims and other things not directly involved in killing the gunman. That is human nature. Sometimes we get a perfect confluence of events with the outlier officer and the gunman and he is eliminated in minutes. Other times we get debacles like Broward County and Thousand Oaks. In my opinion, the conclusion will depend on who arrives on scene in time to act.

But what of the guys that are not already soul-snatching meat eaters, but want to be? Becoming that is not difficult if the will is there to do so.

First is understanding what you want to be and do. What is your self image? Are you just another armed but helpless victim, or are you the one that will interdict the active shooter? How do you see yourself? Decide now and engrave that deep in your mind. The rest will follow easily.

Title: Good thing she did not have to reload her AR-15 mid fight due to mini mag law
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 04, 2019, 07:01:05 PM


https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/pregnant-florida-woman-uses-ar-15-to-fend-off-burglars-attacking-her-family?fbclid=IwAR3rjnjApBRa6ERrejM9D7yVLSV1HEOlqprzWobSAItni2Sym_ySNFvxv1s
Title: The Hero of London Bridge
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 30, 2019, 03:54:18 PM


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-bridge-hero-murderer-day-20994055.amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0MR6wLL4P-YEmNYqoRmPBfgt2XPaygVanwrs7sVtdBNzrO3hJCF57N6ss
Title: Re: The Hero of London Bridge
Post by: G M on November 30, 2019, 06:22:18 PM


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-bridge-hero-murderer-day-20994055.amp?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0MR6wLL4P-YEmNYqoRmPBfgt2XPaygVanwrs7sVtdBNzrO3hJCF57N6ss

Now looking for a narwhal tusk to mount on one of my AR-15s.