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DBMA Martial Arts Forum => Martial Arts Topics => Topic started by: Crafty_Dog on February 16, 2004, 11:07:50 AM

Title: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 16, 2004, 11:07:50 AM
Woof All:

This thread is for matters related to boxing.

Woof,
Crafty Dog
===============

Lenox Lewis Retires
Who'll be the new heavyweight champion(s)?

BY GORDON D. MARINO
Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST

Norman Mailer once quipped that the heavyweight champion is the toe of God. Although Mr. Mailer's remark rings a mite hyperbolic, there can be no doubt that the fate of public interest in boxing is largely decided by the heavyweights. After all, it is the battles between the big guys that bring in the crossover fans otherwise disinterested in seeing two people pummel one another. But there is tumult in the heavyweight kingdom today.

A week ago, champion Lennox Lewis, age 38, announced his retirement. There are bookmakers already taking odds that Mr. Lewis, like Muhammad Ali in 1979, will soon retire from this retirement and be back in the ring. If, however, he abides by his plans, Mr. Lewis will become only the third heavyweight champion in history to walk away with the title. Rocky Marciano and Gene Tunney were the others.





Since he conquered Mike Tyson in 2002, Mr. Lewis has fought only once. As a result of his inactivity, the heavyweight division has been in the doldrums. All the money is at the top in boxing, and with one loss a fighter's market value can crash through the canvas. And so a number of heavyweights in the championship mix have been biding their time hoping for a bonanza bout with either Mr. Lewis or Mr. Tyson. Now that Mr. Lewis has withdrawn and Mr. Tyson seems inclined to do the same, heavyweight business should again bustle. But there is no college of cardinals in boxing, so how does the sport go about selecting its new heavyweight king?
When Mr. Marciano abruptly retired in 1956, the IBC (International Boxing Club) organized an elimination tournament between Archie Moore, Floyd Patterson and Tommy Jackson. In the end, Mr. Patterson knocked out Mr. Moore to capture the vacated title. In the wake of Mr. Lewis's exit, however, it appears as though the championship, or at least a major portion of it, will be decided by a single contest.

The World Boxing Council is planning a championship box-off between Vitali Klitschko and Corrie Sanders. In a thrilling contest last June, Mr. Lewis was declared the winner by TKO after six rounds, because the referee deemed Mr. Klitschko's face too cut up for the fight to continue. But at the time the bout was halted, the Ukrainian-born Mr. Klitschko was ahead on points and there was enormous demand for a rematch. Mr. Klitschko's claim as the heavyweight prince-in-waiting was further legitimized by his recent knockout of Kirk Johnson, a top contender.

As for Corrie Sanders, Mr. Klitschko's possible opponent for the WBC title, the South African power-puncher's credentials were sealed last winter when he knocked Vitali's younger brother Wladimir senseless in two rounds. At the time, Wladimir was widely regarded as the heir apparent to Mr. Lewis's title.

The victor of the (Vitali) Klitschko-Sanders struggle may not have quite the same imprimatur as Patterson did when he succeeded Marciano. Although Mr. Lewis was the linear champion--that is, the man who beat Holyfield, who beat Douglass, who beat Tyson and so on back to John L. Sullivan--he was not the only card-carrying heavyweight king.





In contrast to the mid-'50s and the Marciano era, there is now an alphabet soup of sanctioning bodies in boxing: e.g., the IBF, WBA, WBC and WBO. These organizations--which many believe are driven by the ticket-selling interests of promoters--sanction bouts, establish rankings, and crown their own champions.
Chris Byrd is the International Boxing Federation heavyweight champ. A slightly built and diabolically crafty southpaw, Mr. Byrd claims a freakish victory over Vitali Klitschko. When they fought in 2000, Mr. Klitschko was far ahead on points but injured his shoulder and could not come out for the 10th round.

Then there is the World Boxing Association champ, Roy Jones Jr. Quicksilver fast and technically brilliant, Mr. Jones is widely considered the best pound-for-pound pugilist in the world today; however, his natural weight hovers at about 195 pounds, and he is about six inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter than both the Klitschko brothers and Mr. Sanders. In an era in which the heavyweight elite have the proportions of NBA centers, it is not surprising that Mr. Jones is strongly considering abandoning his heavyweight claims to defend his WBC light heavyweight title.

While most boxing aficionados pine for the days of one weight class, one champion, the Klitschkos are quite content to think of the title as divisible. The brothers, both of whom hold doctorates and speak four languages, have vowed never to fight one another. The only way that they can both realize their life's ambition of being heavyweight kings is to divide up the kingdom, with the WBC belt going to Vitali and the rest to Wladimir. Should Mr. Sanders win, however, he would probably seek to unify the title--unless, of course, Mike Tyson were again to feel the call of the arena, in which case all other bouts would be off. For there is no one who is better than Mr. Tyson at putting fans in seats and adding zeros to contract figures.
Title: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 26, 2004, 10:21:48 AM
TELEVISION & RADIO
Boxing Shows' Breaks
'Champ' and 'Contender' are fighting each other in court, but they're both getting tax deals and disclosure waivers from the state.
 
By Scott Collins, Times Staff Writer


Anybody who wants to put on a professional boxing match in California has to navigate 128 pages of regulations, many of them designed to ensure the health and safety of boxers as well as to promote the integrity of the sport.

But when reality TV producers from Hollywood came calling earlier this year, state officials agreed to bend a couple of those rules.

The producers of Fox's "The Next Great Champ" and NBC's "The Contender," bitter rivals in most respects, had one thing in common: Both were so eager to keep their shows' outcomes under wraps prior to broadcast that they sought and received approval from boxing commissioners and the California attorney general's office to circumvent a state law requiring immediate public disclosure of bout results. Both series are counting on the secrecy to help them build dramatic suspense as they seek to find new champions from fields of unknown athletes.

What's more, both the "Champ" and "Contender" producers negotiated lower-than-normal state taxes on the license-fee payments mandated for boxing broadcasts. Representatives of both shows successfully argued that they should pay tax only on the portion of their shows actually devoted to boxing matches ? typically just a few minutes in each episode. Other promoters described this arrangement as highly unusual. In the case of "Champ," the amount and timing of the tax payments was sharply questioned by the then-chairman of the California Athletic Commission, which regulates boxing.

Although state boxing laws have entered into a bitter court fight between the two shows, the special deals given to both shows have remained out of public view until now.

Until recently, Hollywood's great boxing standoff had focused more on accusations of idea theft than on meeting state boxing standards. Executives from DreamWorks, which is producing "Contender" with reality guru Mark Burnett, and from NBC, which will air the show starting in November, have complained for months that "Champ" ripped off their concept.

Then last week, they filed an unfair business practices and fraud lawsuit against Fox Broadcasting in Los Angeles Superior Court, alleging that "Champ" broke state laws in a scramble to get on the air. A hearing on a request by DreamWorks and Burnett for a preliminary injunction against airing "Champ" ? which is slated to debut Sept. 7 ? is set for Friday.

In the brief history of reality shows, concepts have tended to pivot on questions of who gets voted off the island or receives the final rose. But in the case of "Champ" vs. "Contender," the producers have waded into the tough arena of a heavily regulated sport.

In agreeing to soften the public disclosure requirement ? which is designed chiefly to allow boxers to verify a prospective opponent's fight record before a match ? the commission granted the reality-show producers a break seldom if ever extended to other promoters, according to two former commission chairmen and two licensed California promoters contacted for this story.

But the former chairman said that the benefits the TV shows are expected to provide, in terms of state revenue and heightened exposure for boxing, make the trade-off worthwhile.

"This is where Hollywood and boxing cross paths," said Sanford L. Michelman, who served as a commissioner for four years, including a stint as chairman that ended Aug. 1 but included the time period in which the TV waiver deals were struck. "That's the first request [to change the public-records rule] I ever heard of when I was on the commission?. The whole reason is to protect the results of the show."

Commissioner John Frierson referred calls to the commission's general counsel; other commissioners could not be reached.

Michelman, an Encino attorney, said that commissioners agreed to delay the reporting requirements partly because they were concerned that the TV producers might shoot their productions in other states if their conditions were not met. While the delayed disclosure waivers seem unlikely to set off a wave of copycat requests, some say they might embolden boxing promoters to ask for special deals of their own. "It's definitely opening up a door," Michelman said.

University of San Diego law professor Robert Fellmeth, a boxing commissioner from 1976 to 1981, said officials inappropriately carved out a legal exemption for the Hollywood producers.

"This whole state is excessively star-struck," Fellmeth said. The main rationale of the boxing laws is to ensure that "matches are fair and the public is monitoring them, [and] that money does not unduly influence" the sport, he added. "Hollywood stardust does not trump the law."

"Outside of these reality shows, boxing is a great sport and if it begins to look like show business or wrestling, it takes away from boxing," said licensed promoter Ken Thompson.

As for the waivers, "why are they allowing them to do it, and not us as promoters?" said licensed promoter Ed Holmes.

Still, both promoters acknowledged that the shows could build exposure for boxing. And the shows aren't short on star power: "Champ" features boxing great Oscar De La Hoya; the host of "Contender" is Sylvester Stallone.

Patty Glaser, a lawyer representing "Champ" producer Endemol USA, confirmed that the producers had received permission to modify the public-disclosure requirements. DreamWorks spokesman Andy Spahn said that "Contender" also got the go-ahead from the athletic commission and the attorney general in late July to keep its bout results secret.

While both shows received waivers, paperwork reviewed by The Times applied only to "Champ." Efforts to obtain documents related to "Contender" were unsuccessful, though the waiver and the negotiated tax payment were confirmed by the show's producers.

In an interview Tuesday, Burnett said that the disclosure waiver was "appropriate" because the "Contender" boxers agreed not to fight again until after the show aired. That would prevent another fighter from being deceived about a boxer's record, he said.

As for whether the secrecy is designed to protect the show's ratings, Burnett replied: "Of course it is."

Dean Lohuis, acting executive director of the athletic commission, confirmed there was a disclosure agreement approved by the attorney general, but referred questions to Anita Scuri, the commission's counsel, who would not discuss the matter.

"Our official comment is 'no comment,' " said Karen Chappelle, the deputy attorney general who signed off on the disclosure deal. Spokesman Tom Dresslar of the attorney general's office in Sacramento also declined requests for comment.

The athletic commission, a unit of the state Department of Consumer Affairs, has regulated boxing in California since a voter initiative in 1924. The commission typically has seven members, but due to term expirations and a lack of recent appointments by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger there are currently only four commissioners.

The producers' dealings with the state might have escaped notice if not for the ongoing legal fight over "Champ."

In their suit filed Aug. 17, DreamWorks and Burnett claimed that Fox and Endemol, which is producing "Champ" with De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, are rushing "their ersatz copycat show to air no matter how many statutes and regulations need to be violated." The "Contender" side relied heavily on an Aug. 12 memo from Michelman that stated Endemol violated state rules because it undertook extensive promotional activities without a promoter's license. Michelman also wrote that Golden Boy failed to pay the required state tax for the "Champ" matches.

In an interview, Michelman said he raised the disclosure requirement with the "Champ" producers during a meeting June 11, two weeks before the producers held their first bout, but no consensus was reached. On July 26, he broached the subject again, telling the Endemol attorneys in a phone conversation that the commission would soon release the names of the "Champ" bout winners, according to Glaser.

This set off a flurry of negotiations between state officials and attorneys for the "Champ" producers. On July 28, Robert L. Shapiro, a law partner of Glaser's who rose to prominence as one of O.J. Simpson's lawyers, outlined the resulting agreement in a letter addressed to Michelman, Scuri and Chappelle.

To allay officials' safety concerns, Shapiro wrote, each boxer on "Champ" would sign a declaration promising not to fight in any match until after the show's finale was telecast. The document also featured a provision in which the boxers asked the commission to "keep all ? information confidential until the final episode of the series airs, and that it not be reported to the official registry of boxing commissions or to any other registry as may be required by" state and federal law.

The "Contender" producers reached a similar agreement with state officials shortly before starting production of their show last week, according to DreamWorks' Spahn. Both sets of producers also negotiated a favorable rate on state taxes applicable to boxing matches.

According to California law, boxing promoters are required to pay the state up to 5% of any revenue earned from the sale of broadcast or television rights. Because Fox is paying the "Champ" producers approximately $1.2 million for each episode ? for a total of either 10 or 11 episodes ? Michelman said the producers could have owed up to $600,000 in taxes.

The "Champ" producers did not share that view. According to Michelman, the producers insisted they pay tax only on those portions of the show that actually consisted of officiated boxing ? typically just a few minutes at the end of every program. The producers sent checks for $6,000 for each bout, although Michelman said that after he threatened to audit the producers' books, they raised that amount to $9,000. "Champ" producers paid the tax for a total of 13 bouts, or $117,000, according to Michelman.

In his Aug. 12 memo, Michelman criticized the "Champ" producers for not providing access to financial records and for failing to pay the taxes on time. But Glaser, Endemol's attorney, dismissed such complaints. "As I'm sure Mr. Michelman is aware, this was the boxing promoter's obligation, and it was paid in a timely manner by Golden Boy," Glaser said. The "Contender" side also negotiated a special rate, although the details remain unclear. Producer Burnett confirmed that the state agreed to tax "Contender" based on the number of minutes devoted to boxing matches, rather than the entire program length. DreamWorks declined to release the figure, and state officials would not comment. But given that NBC is believed to have paid DreamWorks and Burnett a license fee of more than $2 million for each of 16 episodes, the producers could have been on the hook for as much as $1.6 million in state taxes.

"The [final] number was one the athletic commission and the attorney general told us they were happy with," DreamWorks' Spahn said.
Title: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 19, 2004, 09:21:30 AM
This Time, the Judges Go Johnson's Way
Light heavyweight beats Tarver in split decision at Staples Center. Ward wins in his pro debut.
By Steve Springer, Times Staff Writer


The best light heavyweight in the world has nine losses.

No, that's not a typo, though Glen Johnson and those around him would be the first to say that, while it's not a typographical error, the majority of those losses were the result of errors by the judges.
 
Saturday night at Staples Center, Johnson (42-9-2, 28 knockouts) was involved in another close fight, this one with Antonio Tarver, this one to determine the successor to Roy Jones, who ruled the division for years until he was knocked out by both Johnson and Tarver.

This time, the close decision went to Johnson in front of a crowd of 9,126. Judges Melvina Lathan and Chuck Giampa gave the fight to Johnson by the score of 115-113. Judge Marty Denkin had Tarver winning, 116-112.

"I thought Tarver won," Jones said of the 3-1 favorite, "but the result doesn't surprise me. Glen Johnson is a hustler. This is what he does."

Even Johnson, modest in victory, said, "I'm not the best. I'm still looking for Mr. Best."

In the semi-main event, Andre Ward, coming off his gold-medal winning victory in the 2004 Olympics, made a successful debut as a professional, winning on a second-round technical knockout over Christopher Molina (2-1, 1).

While some argue Tarver (22-3, 18) won the main event, none could argue that it wasn't an entertaining, competitive match. They fought 12 bruising rounds in which each fighter attacked and retreated, soared on the crest of crisp, clean punches and sagged with the draining effects of fatigue. Neither man was down, but each was rocked with shots that seemed to turn the fight in his opponent's favor. But just as soon as it seemed one of them had the advantage, the other would rally, drawing upon reserves of strength that temporarily overwhelmed the target of his renewed aggression.

The punch stats favored Tarver. He landed more punches (296-217) and a higher percentage (35%-27%) of those thrown.

"I don't come out ahead too often," Johnson said, "so I'm not going to dispute the result. I'm just very grateful."

Tarver, a southpaw, said that he hurt his left hand in "the fourth or fifth round" when he hit Johnson on top of the head.

"That took away my best weapon," said Tarver, "but that's boxing. It's a tough sport. I feel, in my heart of hearts, that I did more to win the fight."

Nothing Tarver said could diminish the magnitude of this victory for Johnson, whose unlikely success story began at a construction site in Miami 15 years ago. It was there that Johnson, working as a carpenter, first put on boxing gloves to spar on his lunch break with a fellow Jamaican, who was preparing for an upcoming fight.

It was love at first punch for Johnson, who, since turning professional 11 years ago, has traveled the world in search of a night like Saturday night.

The logical question, after a match as close as Saturday's, is will there be a rematch?

The loser, of course, always wants one. But, in this case, the winner was just as amenable. "Definitely I will give him a rematch," Johnson said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Freed of the constraints of the Olympic scoring system, buoyed by the opportunity to fight someone of similar weight and exhilarated by fighting as a professional for the first time, Ward quickly disposed of Molina, knocking him down in each of the first two rounds of a scheduled four-rounder.

It was after the second knockdown, with Molina back on his feet but not responsive according to referee Jose Cobian, that the fight was stopped at the 40-second mark of the round.

"It was a beautiful thing," said Ward, who weighed in at 165 pounds, half a pound less than Molina. At the Olympics, Ward fought in the 178-pound division, giving away six to nine pounds to opponents.

"It was nice to finally fight someone eye-to-eye," Ward said. "He had me by half an inch, but I'll take that over the extra weight. He looked at my physique and miscalculated, thinking I was weak, but he quickly learned that was not case."

Exiting the ring unscathed, Ward will soon prepare for Chapter 2 of his pro career, expected to be on Feb. 10 against a still-undetermined opponent.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a women's bout, Mia St. John (39-4-2 16) staggered Janae Romero Archuleta (4-10-1, 2) at 1:46 of the first round of a scheduled four-rounder with a right that caused Cobian to stop the bout. St. John had won their previous two meetings by decision.


If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives
Title: Johnson Won?
Post by: buzwardo on December 19, 2004, 10:42:21 AM
Count me among those who thought Tarver won. Thought he was tactically and technically much sounder than Johnson. The judge who scored it 116-112 Tarver had it dead on, I thought.

Johnson pursued doggedly throughout, kinda reminded me of Joe Fraizer as he pursued Tarver around the ring. I've seen worse calls than this one, it was pretty close, and Tarver had a habit of coasting for most of a round before getting busy towards the end. Still, I think the two judges who went for Johnson mistook his relentless pursuit for boxing skill.
Title: Johnson vs. Tarver
Post by: TBONE on December 20, 2004, 09:29:52 AM
I agree that it was a close fight. I think Tarver landed some clean power shots throughout the fight, so did Johnson. Two reasons I think the decision went to Johnson:1.  Effective Aggressiveness aka...Ring Generalship. He imposed his will throughout the fight and pressed the attack, cutting off the ring and landing combinations with effective body shots. 2. I thought that Tarver took the 10th. round off...it was too close of a fight to not continue to apply pressure wherever and whenever possible.
Great fight though...I actually thought it could have gone either way. Can't wait till the rematch!!
Title: UFC v. Boxing?
Post by: buzwardo on July 02, 2006, 07:57:36 PM
Don't Blame UFC for Boxing's Woes
by Eddie Goldman

Wholesale panic hasn?t exactly set in yet, mainly because much of the boxing world moves as quickly as a double portion of cheese fries (or, to mark Canada Day this Saturday, poutine), but the other side sure is crowing.

According to a Spike TV press release, the ?The Ultimate Fighter 3? finale from this past Saturday night, June 24, drew 2.8 million viewers and was thus ?the most watched UFC event in history? as well as ?the highest rated Spike original telecast in the network's history in Men 18-49 with a 2.85 rating.? In addition, it tallied a 2.04 household rating and ?delivered more M18-49 and M18-34 in the time period than any other channel, broadcast or cable.? And ?The Spike TV finale easily outdrew NASCAR's Dodge/ Save Mart 350 on FX which garnered 1.4 million viewers.? They didn?t even have to mention by how much it outdrew HBO?s ?Boxing After Dark? featuring undefeated fighters Calvin Brock vs. Timur Ibragimov and Joel Julio vs. Carlos Quintana.

The press release also quoted Dana White, the oft-ridiculed UFC president who is both a former amateur boxer and boxercise instructor (see Fightsport.com for more documentation, sometimes quite humorous), as saying, ?We have reached the point when guys across the country say ? ?Did you catch the fight last night?? -- and they are referring to a UFC fight.?

Nor is this ratings success a one-time phenomenon. Recently the web site of Multichannel News, a leading cable television trade publication, ran an article called ?Ultimate Fighting Pins PPV To the Mat?. It stated, ?The UFC is averaging between 200,000 and 350,000 buys each for its 10 PPV events a year, according to PPV executives familiar with the franchise. UFC officials refuse to reveal specific figures.?

While it is certainly premature to declare UFC as more popular than boxing, or boxing as ready to die, they each are, for now anyway, headed in opposite directions. While UFC itself has numerous problems, those are best left discussed elsewhere since so many in the boxing world still propagate so much ignorant, biased, uninformed, deceptive, and just plain imbecilic nonsense about UFC. What is key here to understand is that UFC?s recent success is not a significant cause of boxing?s steady decline.

Boxing?s pay-per-view model has not only walled off over an entire generation from being able to view live top-level fights on television. It has also discredited itself as a medium due to one fiasco after another.

For example, at the time, the pay-per-view with the greatest number of buys was the first fight between Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield, on Nov. 9, 1996. That drew, according to a report by Showtime Entertainment Television on American pay-per-view in the decade of the 1990?s, 1.6 million buys. Since many fans still believed that Tyson was invincible and just had an off night, the rematch did tremendous business. That took place June 28, 1997, drew a record 1.99 million buys, and, of course, went down in history as the infamous ?bite fight? where Tyson was disqualified for biting off parts of Holyfield?s ears.

Then there were the controversies in the Lewis-Holyfield I ?draw? in March 1999, with 1.1 million buys, and the Trinidad-De La Hoya decision in Sept. 1999, with 1.4 million buys. That magical million mark was only hit again three years later, in June 2002, with Tyson-Lewis getting approximately two million buys. That pretty much killed the myth of Tyson (by the way, happy 40th, Mike). The million mark was only reached one more time, in Sept. 2004, when pay-per-view?s number-two draw, De La Hoya, was knocked out by Bernard Hopkins in nine, largely signaling the beginning of his exit from boxing?s main stage.

So who is left as a major pay-per-view draw? And what do any of these buy rate-killing fiascos have to do with UFC?

Roughly around the same period when boxing began soaring on pay-per-view, the mid-1990?s, was also when UFC achieved its first wave of success. UFC V, in April 1995, got about 240,000 buys (some estimates are a bit higher) at a time when only about 20 million American households could even get pay-per-view, as opposed to over 50 million today. Other UFC shows in 1994-6 drew between about 150,000 and 190,000 buys. Later came the ban on cable TV in the U.S. of UFC, which almost destroyed that company and took many years from which to recover. But both UFC and boxing were doing well on pay-per-view in that period, with each falling for different reasons.

There are many reasons for UFC?s recent growth, and not just the success of its ?reality? show. UFC, as well as the mixed martial arts as a whole, embraced the culture of the Internet early on. Boxing, as an industry as a whole, still has not.

It was the years of using the Internet to provide information, allow discussion, and rally the fan base against the cable ban which was decisive in turning the tide, a fact even grudgingly admitted by executives from pay-per-view distributor In Demand when the ban was finally lifted in 2001. (And for those who haven?t read my bio, I played my part in that battle as host of the daily ?No Holds Barred? Internet radio show, which covered all the combat sports including mixed martial arts, boxing, grappling, jiu-jitsu, and real wrestling, on the talk network eYada.com, from 1999 to 2001.)

While the boxing business was complaining about having to give so many media credentials to web sites, mixed martial arts was using its own web sites to mobilize itself. The largest mixed martial arts news site today is Sherdog.com, which, according to Alexa.com, on June 27 had a ranking of 2,742. The web site of the UFC, ufc.com, had on that day a ranking of 4,801. Those are both better than any boxing site.

UFC has also hired MaxBoxing?s Tom Gerbasi to write for its site, albeit articles which have to reflect the corporate line. How many boxing promoters have hired any top writers to acquaint their fans online with their fighters and get them interested in them? (It should be added that there is now a major dispute between UFC and the independent mixed martial arts sites like Sherdog.com, as UFC has been denying them media credentials. Again, that dispute is best discussed elsewhere.)

It is true that both HBO and Showtime have boxing pages on their web sites with fighter profiles and data. But the Alexa ranking for HBO?s ENTIRE site on June 27 was 2,672 ? almost the same as that for Sherdog.com alone. Showtime?s overall ranking was 9,055, again lower than these other mixed martial arts sites. While ESPN.com?s overall ranking is 24, and we have no breakdown for its boxing page, note that boxing is not even given its own link at the top of that page as so many other sports are, but is only listed under the ?more? category.

It is thus not only the absence of undisputed world champions, the plague of the multiple sanctioning bodies, the weakness in the heavyweight division, and even the corruption and often absurd officiating which rob the sport of most of its credibility and thus push it downward. Those are all major factors, and have been for some time.

Boxing?s decline has been intensified by its failure to embrace fully and decisively the culture of the Internet. Instead it remains a prisoner of the culture of the newspaper.

UFC, and mixed martial arts as a whole, never had a chance to do the same, as almost all the mainstream publications heaped slander on them while doing the same bang-up job of research they did on issues like ?weapons of mass destruction? in Iraq. Mixed martial arts thus had no choice but to bet on the Internet, and that longshot investment is paying off handsomely now.

Much more can and will be said on these issues of fear and loathing of the Internet in boxing. But here is one more tidbit: For this article I wanted to compare the rating for Saturday?s UFC show with HBO?s boxing show. I e-mailed two people at HBO for this information Tuesday afternoon. So far (Thursday afternoon) I have received no response.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 04, 2006, 11:49:00 AM
Note the comments at the very end about the UFC:
======================

Clothes don't make this man
Jones went from gold medal to selling garments on the street until Mayweather came calling
November 4, 2006


LAS VEGAS ? If it weren't for Nate Jones, it would be tempting to dismiss Floyd Mayweather as just another loud-mouthed, pampered, super-macho professional boxer. Mayweather gets points this fight week for knowing it was time for primping and promoting tonight's WBC welterweight title fight against Carlos Baldomir of Argentina at the Mandalay Bay Events Center.

He knows there are two measures of a fighter ? winning, and home pay-per-view buys. Before he steps into the ring, the latter needs to take precedence over the former. Losing is one thing. Losing with fewer than 400,000 buys is a disaster.  So, as he went to his early-week TV appearances, open workouts and photo ops, he worked his boxer's braggadocio at every stop. Always, he says he is the best, maybe the best ever. He says he has never had a moment's fear in the ring, nor before he stepped into one. He has not been tired during a fight, nor after one.

With boxers, it appears that if they say it often and loud enough, everybody eventually will believe it. Especially the boxer.

Still, once you meet Nate Jones and hear his story, you have a much easier time stomaching ? key word here, and we'll get to that ? the Mayweather show.

Lots of the hype and attitude are predictable. Mayweather's record is 36-0, with 24 knockouts. He has held titles in the sport's various alphabet-soup sanctioning groups at lightweight, junior welterweight and welterweight (147 pounds), and now seems intent on creating a legacy on the level of Ali, Leonard and De La Hoya while, at 29, still fighting.

"All roads in boxing lead to Floyd Mayweather," he says. "I am the face of boxing."

He also says that among his attributes is humility. That brings to mind the axiom that, if you have to tell somebody you are humble, you aren't.  Understandably, it is hard to be humble when everywhere you go in Mandalay, your picture is on the wall, 20 feet high; your name is projected in lights onto the walkways, and the suite they put you in has big screen TVs that also serve as entire walls.

The workout scene features a constant barrage of rap music, a red Ferrari parked outside that says "MAYWEATHER" in chrome above the license plate and the ever-present entourage of backslappers and errand boys, who wear T-shirts advertising Mayweather's music-business endeavors, "Philthy Rich Records," and whose ultimate job seems to be holding up his title belts at public appearances.

In the middle of this, Jones is a quiet presence.

He won a bronze medal as a heavyweight in the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, the same Olympics and medal as Mayweather. Jones fought 21 professional fights after that, even held a North America Boxing Assn., title, and took a 19-1 record into a fight in Reading, Pa., against Lamon Brewster on Feb. 2, 2002.

In that one, Brewster got Jones against the ropes in the second round and unleashed 20 straight blows that Jones somehow survived. In the next round, the referee stopped it. Jones was done fighting. He says he has nerve damage in his neck. A report after the fight said that doctors advised him to stop because their tests showed "diminished speech and reflexes."

He continued to get medical help until, he says, "Don King stopped paying the bills."

King was Jones' promoter during his brief pro career, and Jones says they are still friends and he understands why King cut off funds. 

That meant, though, that Jones, a product of one of the worst and most dangerous housing projects in the country, Chicago's old Cabrini-Green, had to find a new way to support his wife and five children. That was complicated by the time he'd spent in jail in the early 1990s for robbery and car theft. Felonies don't play well on job resumes.

So Jones became a haberdasher, of sorts. He says he would drive to New York City, pick up some clothes cheap ? "wholesale" may not be quite the right term ? and go out on the streets of Chicago to sell them.
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"There were times, in the winter, when I'm out there and it was so cold I couldn't stand it," he says. "I didn't know what to do, but I had those kids at home."

On one of those cold days, he got a reprieve. It was a phone call from Mayweather, who was training for a fight against DeMarcus Corley in Atlantic City, N.J., in March 2004. According to Jones, Mayweather had heard what had happened, what Jones was doing, and ordered him to get on the next flight to Atlantic City.

 "We had been friends, so he checked up on me," says Jones, adding that the friendship began when they both won national Golden Gloves titles in Milwaukee in 1994, two years after Jones' release from prison.

"I disliked him right away," Jones says. "He talked all the time and I told him to shut up. Then I went and saw him fight and I said, 'Oh, my, this guy is something.' I went and told him that. He went and watched me fight. We both won. We've been friends ever since."

More recently, Mayweather had the one thing Jones needed most, employment. Jones is part of Mayweather's training team, is paid year-round, and when it is time for a fight, comes to Las Vegas for months at a time. His contribution is unusual.

Almost every session, Jones, at 270 pounds, puts on a chest-and-stomach protector, made of hard foam and resembling baseball catching equipment, and climbs into the ring. Then, with blocking pads on his hands, and towering over the 147-pound Mayweather, he moves slowly and menacingly forward while Mayweather pounds his chest, ribs and stomach with hooks, jabs and uppercuts. Sometimes, this goes on for nearly half an hour.

Jones, who got up to 325 pounds and is now hoping to lose enough weight to try a comeback, is a human punching bag. If you saw up close the ferocity with which Mayweather hits, you would feel the need to pray for Baldomir.

Jones says he has never seen a training drill exactly like this. He says it is the creation of Leonard Ellerbe, Mayweather's trainer, advisor and best friend, the one person on Team Mayweather who seems able to bring order out of constant chaos.

"I saw Leonard put on the pads and get dropped to his knees a couple of times," Jones says, "and Leonard's a strong guy. Ain't nobody in camp but me can take it."

The after-effects?

"I go and I sit down, and I get gas," Jones says. "I've got to buy lots of Pepto-Bismol."

So, it turns out that Mayweather, the boxer with the quick jab and the quicker tongue, the guy who wants the world to see only a tough guy, is a softy when it comes to friends. He seems uncomfortable even talking about it.

"Me and Nate, we go back before boxing," he says.

On Halloween night, we watch silly photo-ops. Mayweather makes his grand appearance at the Mandalay entrance in an old red Cadillac, the model with ugly fins. He is wearing black pinstriped pants and vest, red shirt and red hat with a four-foot feather. A public-relations woman, Kelly Swanson, positions photographers for shots of Floyd giving candy to little girls with pumpkin sacks.

"If I can just get a shot on 'SportsCenter,' " says Swanson.

We watch two days later as Goossen-Tutor Promotions holds one of the silliest news conferences in the history of boxing, which is saying something.  There are 22 people seated, most of whom eventually speak. There is a guy who is selling shoes and brings his main investor to the podium with him.  There are the usual three guys, standing behind Mayweather, holding title belts, and two shapely underdressed women, neither of whom you would bring home to mother, standing nearby for no apparent reason. Swanson eventually shoos them off to the side.  Two Mandalay guys shill for Mandalay, an HBO guy shills for HBO, and promoter Dan Goossen shills for everything else.  It ends, mercifully, when the nicest, mildest-mannered person in the room, Ellerbe, tells Baldomir there are two ways he can go out, on his face or on his rear end. Then he adds that there is a third way, and tosses a little white flag in Baldomir's lap.  Baldomir's manager throws water on Ellerbe, and Mayweather throws water on Baldomir's manager.

You watch, giggle and marvel that boxing still thinks this stuff works, that it can't see itself imploding by its own hands while the guys down the street who run the Ultimate Fighting Championship are laughing and taking boxing's business away.

You feel good, though, because there was a story to tell, even if boxing had no idea what it was, and never will. You have met Nate Jones, been exposed to the decent side of Floyd Mayweather, and are able to leave town before having to put on rubber boots.

*

Bill Dwyre can be reached at bill.dwyre@latimes.com. To read previous columns by Dwyre, go to latimes.com/dwyre.

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 04, 2006, 11:51:34 AM
Second post on this fight:
====================

Baldomir has the deck stacked against him
Though he's the champ, all signs point to a Mayweather victory in tonight's fight.
By Steve Springer, Times Staff Writer
November 4, 2006


LAS VEGAS ? If you think World Boxing Council welterweight champion Carlos Baldomir will successfully defend his title against Floyd Mayweather tonight at the Mandalay Bay Events Center, the odds are:

A.) You're from Argentina.

B.) You like to bet on underdogs.

C.) You've never seen Mayweather fight.

D.) You don't know much about boxing.

Emanuel Steward, one of the most respected trainers in boxing, is none of the above. He knows that Mayweather, 36-0 with 24 knockouts and a 5-1 favorite in tonight's match, is almost universally recognized as the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world. He knows that Mayweather has extremely quick feet, fast hands and more-than-adequate power.

Steward knows that Baldomir, who is from Santa Fe, Argentina, has a mediocre record (43-9-6, 13 knockouts), and has a slow, plodding style that, against Mayweather, may make Baldomir look as if somebody had hit the slow-motion button on the remote control.

Yet Steward gives Baldomir a good chance, focusing on his recent accomplishments in the ring. Baldomir emerged from relative obscurity to stun the boxing world by winning a unanimous decision over Zab Judah in January to give Baldomir his first major championship. And he defended the title in July with a victory over Arturo Gatti, stopping him in the ninth round.

"This is the first fight I personally have thought Floyd might lose," Steward said. "He has never fought a guy as physically, mentally and spiritually fit as Baldomir. Physically, Baldomir is a strong guy. Mentally, he is tough. Spiritually, he believes in himself. He hasn't lost a fight in eight years."

Mayweather shrugs off such dire speculation with an easy smile, as he does Baldomir's opinion that Mayweather is not the dazzling fighter at 147 pounds that he was at lower weights. "He's a bigger, slow Floyd Mayweather," said Baldomir through an interpreter. "That is why I am going to win."

There are two other questions about Mayweather heading into tonight's fight.

One is the absence of his trainer and uncle, Roger Mayweather, who is serving a sixth-month jail sentence on a felony battery conviction. And even if Roger were free, he wouldn't have been able to work his nephew's corner because his license was revoked after he instigated a brawl at the Floyd Mayweather-Judah fight in April.

Leonard Ellerbe, Floyd's manager, shrugs off that concern. He has backed up Roger in the corner for nine years and will be the trainer in charge tonight.

"It will be business as usual," Ellerbe said. "This fight will be decided by Baldomir and Floyd in the ring. It won't be decided by who is in the corner. This is not about me.

"After the first round, Baldomir will go to his corner and ask himself what he got into. Floyd is so fast, Baldomir will think he is fighting three Floyds."

The other concern is the large shadow of Oscar De La Hoya looming on the horizon. Negotiations for a blockbuster May fight between Mayweather and De La Hoya, a fight that would figure to generate more than a million pay-per-view buys, will intensify if Mayweather wins tonight.

Mayweather insists he's not looking beyond Baldomir, nor looking at De La Hoya.

"I'm the best in the world," Mayweather said. "It's my time. All roads lead to Floyd Mayweather, with or without Oscar De La Hoya."

*


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
steve.springer@latimes.com

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on November 04, 2006, 08:57:00 PM
From www.fightnews.com

Tua Stops Wheeler!!!
By Matt Richardson & Jason "J-Gon" Gonzalez
Former world heavyweight championship challenger David Tua won his second consecutive comeback fight in New York when he stopped journeyman Maurice Wheeler in the seventh round of a scheduled ten in the main event of promoter Cedric Kushner's "Gotham Boxing" at the Roseland Ballroom in New York City.


Briggs KOs Liakhovich!
By Chad Barcus and Oscar Paredes at ringside
Shannon Briggs (48-4-1, 41 KOs) scored an explosive twelfth round knockout over Sergei "White Wolf" Liakhovich (23-2, 14 KOs) to claim the WBO heavyweight championship on Saturday night at Chase Field in Phoenix, Arizona. Action was very measured for most the fight as both fighters appeared wary of engaging in sustained exchanges. Finally in the twelfth round, with about 30 seconds left in the fight, Briggs floored Liakhovich, then blasted him completely out of the ring to win the title. Entering the last round, Liakhovich was leading 106-103, 106-103, 105-104. With the win, Briggs breaks the monopoly on the major heavyweight titles by former Soviet fighters.

Im pretty sure we will end up seeing these two heavies throwin down sometime next year.... Im going to root for my man Tua, although I do like both boxers.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on November 05, 2006, 12:10:30 AM
wow. i saw baldomir's last two fights and thought he'd be more competitive, but mayweather was just on another level.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 05, 2006, 01:02:07 PM

http://www.newsday.com/news/columnists/ny-spwatch054962770nov05,0,1560345.column

 Neil Best
SPORTS WATCH 

Boxing: It's down but not out
November 5, 2006


Back in January we left a message for Bob Arum, seeking his take on the sorry state of TV boxing. This was after HBO Sports' Ross Greenburg fingered promoters and managers as "short-term greedy."  Arum never called back. But SportsWatch never gives up, and Tuesday we cornered him over lunch at the Friars Club - an old-school venue for an old- school promoter.
 
Turns out he agrees with Greenburg that there are far too many quality fights relegated to pay per view, and he did not excuse promoters for that. But not surprisingly, he put more blame on the fighters.

"I try very much to steer it to [non-PPV] pay television, but it's a competitive environment," he said. "Some fighters will understand that hey, the exposure is much better. This is for the future. Other guys say, just give me the money."

There were several curse words excised from the above, the kind of colorful language that makes it difficult not to like the 74-year-old, Harvard-educated, Las Vegas-based New Yorker - even if, as with everyone in boxing, it is wise not to believe everything he says.  Arum is long removed from his days promoting the likes of Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran, but he's still plugging away and does not sugarcoat the challenges facing the sport.  Among them, he said, is the difficulty young fighters, especially Americans, have getting exposure from HBO and Showtime, which prefer big names. Arum cited one of his own, Kelly Pavlik, a middleweight who Thursday fought on the latest Versus card, for which Arum provides bouts.

The quality of the Versus cards, which debuted in July, has been uneven; like those on other outlets, they are a big step down from HBO and Showtime. But Arum said they are the type of showcase the sport and unheralded boxers need.  Of course, it could just be that mainstream America is through with boxing for good. Times change. Now boxing must battle even for what should be its natural audience.  Ultimate Fighting Championship, which combines boxing, wrestling and martial arts, has been a ratings hit among young males.  In the 18-34 age group, a Tito Ortiz-Ken Shamrock fight Oct. 10 on Spike TV beat recent boxing cards, the World Series and almost everything else in cable sports other than football.

Arum praised UFC for doing a better job of putting on a show for fans outside the ring than does boxing, and admitted UFC has "got us jealous," given its ratings and demographics.

"There is an acquired taste for that type of combat," he said. "I don't like it, but I'm not the be-all-and-end-all."

Nor is boxing itself, which often is relegated to programming filler.  Through it all, Arum plows on. Why does he bother? Because he still makes money, and because, he added, "I'm having fun."


Title: Interview with Ike Ibeanuchi
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on November 13, 2006, 03:18:37 PM
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=8879&more=1

For those of you that would like to see the David Tua vs Ike Ibeabuchi fight
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=89DCF56FEE511A59



Ike Ibeabuchi Interview: "The President? Wants To Get Back On The Campaign Trail!

13.11.06 - By Izyaslav ?Slava? Koza: When I first started getting into boxing discussion and following the sport a few years back, I won a VHS tape full of any recorded fights of my choosing the owner could fit on there. At that time, sharing clips was not really all that common, so I was lucky enough to obtain some fights I never watched live.

Without thinking, two of the bouts I selected involved a fighter by the name of Ike Ibeabuchi, who was still quite a hot topic, considering he was no longer active. For those who follow the sport, it?s pretty obvious that the bouts also involved David Tua and Chris Byrd and some very interesting circumstances. Before Wladimir Klitschko recently pulverized Byrd, the only time Chris had ever been stopped was against Ibeabuchi, but what was more intriguing was the manner in which it happened.

In the words of many excited fans, not only did Ibeabuchi stop Byrd, but he was able to land about as hard and decapitating a barrage as any of the billion elites that Byrd had faced in his entire career. Those that have seen the stoppage, will most likely bring it up any time vicious knockouts are discussed.

As far as the Tua fight goes, the reason I selected the bout is that what both men accomplished in terms of punches thrown over 12 rounds, was enough to break any 15 round punch thrown record in the history of boxing. To date that is one of the greatest displays of heavyweight boxing that I have ever had the pleasure of watching.

Now I am not here to discuss Ibeabuchi?s guilt or innocence because I don?t know enough about the case to be committed to a serious opinion. However, the life a boxer has outside the ring is not relevant to the things he accomplishes in it. Ike deserves our respect for the things he has already done for our entertainment, and as you shall see for not wasting, or giving up on life in prison. For that alone, we wish Ike luck and at the very least another chance at freedom because that is what America is all about, anyway.

ESB: First of all, Ike, thank you a great deal for doing this because it means a lot.

Ike Ibeabuchi: You?re welcome. Like I stated before, there is nothing that I will not do for my fans.

ESB: I can?t begin to tell you how hopeful some fans got in June 2005 when there was a chance that you could be paroled. When is your next parole hearing and can fans do anything to help you?

Ike Ibeabuchi: With all due respect, to the date of my last parole hearing, it was August 2004 not June 2005. My next parole hearing is scheduled for August 2007.

I don?t quite know what fans can do to help me. I suppose letters of concern to various state of Nevada officials, on my behalf, wouldn?t hurt (Governor, Secretary of State, Parole Commissioner, etc.). I would welcome any support I can get, even from President Bush. I hear he is a big boxing fan.

ESB: Can you describe your daily routine for us? I know one of the problems must be the inability to do real road-work or any traditional boxing exercises, but can you still do something to stay in shape?

Ike Ibeabuchi: My daily routine begins with prayer and fasting from 6:00 am to 12:00pm, during which time I do a rigorous workout. I will not reveal the specifics of my workout. I do not want the competition getting an early read, if you know what I mean. I do run, but not the traditional roadwork. I'm limited here.

I believe what the fans really want to know, is whether I am in shape. The answer is yes.

I'm in shape to fight right now. My boxing program includes shadow boxing and the study of "Psycho-pugilism". God willing, I shall introduce the world o? boxing to my new supreme delicacy Psycho-pugilism (The Food of The Warrior Boxing God) upon my eventual return to the ring.

I also study, go to school (college classes), and watch a little soap opera. I watch Law & Order and Jeopardy, almost everyday. By 10:00 pm, I'm in my room for the late evening news. I read mail and e-mails from my fans, and answer them accordingly. My evening is closed with a prayer while lying down in my bed.

ESB: The story of Mike Tyson?s stint in jail was to some degree glamorized and it was suggested the other inmates were afraid of him. Can you tell us how the other inmates respond to you and how you interact with them?

Ike Ibeabuchi: Unlike Mike Tyson, I am housed in the general population with other inmates. Therefore, I have the opportunity to mingle with inmates of different races and cultural backgrounds.

ESB: How does it feel when 1500 inmates call you ?The Champ??

Ike Ibeabuchi: Flattering. But God knows they are right. The justification being my accomplishments since my incarceration. My composure, tenacity, endurance, and overall conduct, worth emulating here in the prison. In short, I set positive examples. I identify all fellow inmates as ?bro.? Many of them are even willing to do my time for me, for no cost. They are my turpitude, and I respect them dearly.

ESB: Without a doubt, the most memorable moment of your career to most fans is the devastating punch that basically did in Chris Byrd. Whenever fans ask about you on boxing forums, this is the first video clip they are shown. I am sure you were asked this before but can you please describe that whole moment one more time for us?

Ike Ibeabuchi: It was memorable but not the most. It was memorable because it was episodic. I was fighting circumstances of a fa?ade outside of boxing, when the Chris Byrd fight was made. The most memorable moments were each of my ring entrances, where I displayed my ingenuity, which got better and better each time.

To describe the Chris Byrd fight, is to teach or describe how to catch or kill a fly with your bare hands. Do not try to catch the fly directly, even as it is perched or rests. Always aim at the vacuum of its escape. Most of the time, the vacuum becomes the fly at last when you open your hand.

ESB: Do you have any idea what reasoning Byrd tried to use in arguing with the referee when he got up? Many fans always asked what Byrd was trying to say there.

Ike Ibeabuchi: He didn't believe I was able to do that to him, to out smart him. Of course, he's a "spartan." He is not going to quit until he can't breathe anymore. After all, he did become a world champion.

ESB: The most memorable fight of your career was unquestionably the record breaking bomb fest against David Tua. Even though Tua has been beaten, nobody has ever done what you have against him. In preparation for that fight, did you train for precisely that kind of fight?

Ike Ibeabuchi: You see, it took only two fights to define me for most fans, David Tua and Chris Byrd. Two contrasting styles. Indeed, a symbolic crucifix gesture; that is by the way. Tua was tough, but to beat him, I had to do things only a superman would do. With the help of Curtis Cokes, my trainer, I had to be a genie. A sledgehammer wouldn't have stopped me that night. I was thinking 15 rounds of boxing. 12 rounds was just incomplete. Remember now, in round 12, I started my round one routine again, indicating that I was beginning to do a second lap.

ESB: Do you still follow boxing? If so, can you give a few thoughts on the following fighters (strengths, weaknesses, and How you would fight them)?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I follow boxing.

ESB: Henry Akinwande?

Ike Ibeabuchi: Is he still boxing? I would hold him all night long.

ESB: Shannon Briggs?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I will make sure we are not fighting in New Jersey and then I will be alright.

ESB: Calvin Brock?

Ike Ibeabuchi: When it comes to costing, I am the project, and he is the job order. Point made.

ESB: Wladimir Klitschko?

Ike Ibeabuchi: It takes a longer time to obtain a Ph.D in the English language courses.

ESB: Sergei Lyakhovich?

Ike Ibeabuchi: It takes God and Heartbreaks to be a great finisher.

ESB: Oleg Maskaev?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I?m impressed but you know when the cats are away, the mice will play.

ESB: Samuel Peter?

Ike Ibeabuchi: All my brother needs to do is take his time.

ESB: Hasim Rahman?

Ike Ibeabuchi: It?s time to become a full-fledged politician. He practically knows everything.

ESB: Nikolai Valuev?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I can?t wait to fight a man at least.

ESB: Which of them is the best fighter right now in the division?

Ike Ibeabuchi: Samuel Peter is the best fighter, but he's got to take his time to inflict pain to prove it.

ESB: Which boxers are you friends with?

Ike Ibeabuchi: Do you mean before a fight, or after a fight? No War, NO FRIENDS!

ESB: Who is the best p4p in the world right now?

Ike Ibeabuchi: My "boy," Floyd Maywhether. When I see Floyd, and all his charisma, I say to him, "Thank You.?

ESB: Ike, I know life in Prison is a very difficult thing, so can you tell us what helps you keep your head together, and helps you get through the days?

Ike Ibeabuchi: My life, even in prison, depicts a life that has been lived in the bible many times. I like to see myself as the (Baptist or the Messiah with God 1st), like Daniel in the Lion?s Den, like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace, but never burned, like Jacob who had run from his hairy brother in Dallas. Like Samson who saw wisdom and humility when his eyes were gone, like Moses who ruled scorpions and snakes in the desert, and I could go on and on.

ESB: What do you miss the most about being on the outside?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I miss everything a man in need would.

ESB: How did you get your nickname "The President??

Ike Ibeabuchi: Alright ?now,? with all due respect to the President of anything, and grandiosity apart, I am so way above that name ?President,? so condescending. Shelly Mann, of Dallas, can agree with me, too. I?d rather be known by my real name in full "Ikemefula." It is ?nine? letters, indeed. A prayer to God for my strength to keep.

ESB: What do you want to say in closing to all your fans and the people reading this interview?

Ike Ibeabuchi: I would like the fans to know that I am an innocent man, and that I am being made a scapegoat for my perspicacity. Many know this. Nevertheless, I am dealing with this unfortunate circumstance to the very best of my ability. I have not stopped fighting and I never will. I was proclaimed the most dangerous man in the ring in 1999.

Now with my academic achievements and life experiences, I feel I have the ability to take huge strides outside the ring as well. Still, I equally share your pains of deprived quality boxing entertainment. With your continued support for justice, perhaps we can reverse the situation and get a rightful and true heavyweight champion back in the ring.

I love you all, and thank you for your untiring continued support in and out of the ring.

ESB: Ike, thank you again for doing this. Do you want your fans to write you and should we make public your email address?

Ike Ibeabuchi: Yes, my fans may write or email me at the following address, or web-site. I look forward to hearing from them.


Email: Ike@Ikeibeabuchi.org, Ike@Ikeibeabuchi.com


Mailing Address:

Ikemefula C. Ibeabuchi 71979

NSP/ PO BOX 607

Carson City, Nevada 89702-0607

United States of America

I want to thank Ike?s mother Patricia for helping out in getting this interview.

On the Horizon: Interview with #1 contender Sultan Ibragimov.

Title: Oscar-Floyd is on for May 5!
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on November 14, 2006, 02:46:10 AM
 :mrgreen:Oscar-Floyd is on for May 5! :mrgreen:
By Karl Freitag
Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather have reached an agreement to fight on May 5. The fight was finalized today. The bout will be promoted by Golden Boy Promotions. "We are not going to comment what the deal is," Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer told Fightnews.com. "It's a fair deal and if the pay-per-view hits the numbers which we anticipate it will, it will be new record payday for both guys.....It's going to be big. It's clearly the biggest fight in boxing and I think it's the kind of fight which will transcend and which will clearly capture the interest of the American public and the American sports fans, because it is Mayweather pound-for-pound number one fighter in the sport against Oscar, the most popular and biggest name in the sport. Actually I was looking today at Oscar's trophy case in our office and I was standing in front of one of the belts which was a ring belt that had 'Oscar De La Hoya, pound for pound' on it, and it was 1997. So here we are ten years later and the question is, can he do it again?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oscar realizes this is a dangerous fight," continued Schaefer. "He realizes that he's going in as the underdog, but this is what exactly motivates him, this is what gets him going, this is what he is about and what his entire career is all about. Always going for the biggest challenges. I think that's what his active career was and that's what he'll be remembered for. The guy who always took on the biggest and the best."
Monday, November 13 2006
Title: Re: Oscar-Floyd is on for May 5!
Post by: Jeff Gentry on November 16, 2006, 01:51:49 PM
:mrgreen:Oscar-Floyd is on for May 5! :mrgreen:
By Karl Freitag
Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather have reached an agreement to fight on May 5. The fight was finalized today. The bout will be promoted by Golden Boy Promotions. "We are not going to comment what the deal is," Golden Boy CEO Richard Schaefer told Fightnews.com. "It's a fair deal and if the pay-per-view hits the numbers which we anticipate it will, it will be new record payday for both guys.....It's going to be big. It's clearly the biggest fight in boxing and I think it's the kind of fight which will transcend and which will clearly capture the interest of the American public and the American sports fans, because it is Mayweather pound-for-pound number one fighter in the sport against Oscar, the most popular and biggest name in the sport. Actually I was looking today at Oscar's trophy case in our office and I was standing in front of one of the belts which was a ring belt that had 'Oscar De La Hoya, pound for pound' on it, and it was 1997. So here we are ten years later and the question is, can he do it again?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Oscar realizes this is a dangerous fight," continued Schaefer. "He realizes that he's going in as the underdog, but this is what exactly motivates him, this is what gets him going, this is what he is about and what his entire career is all about. Always going for the biggest challenges. I think that's what his active career was and that's what he'll be remembered for. The guy who always took on the biggest and the best."
Monday, November 13 2006

I think this is going to be a good fight i like Mayweather.


Jeff
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on November 17, 2006, 04:49:22 AM
any predictions for the pac-morales fight?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 17, 2006, 02:16:12 PM
Former boxing champion Mike Tyson is to become a male escort after agreeing to work at legendary Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss' new legalized brothel for women. Fleiss bought 60 acres of land in Nevada, and his work is scheduled to begin on Heidi's Stud Farm.
She has high hopes for Tyson, once heavyweight champion of the world - despite the fact he is a convicted rapist.

She says, "I told him, 'You're going to be my big stallion.' It's every man's fear that their girlfriend will go for Mike Tyson."

Tyson, 40, adds, "I don't care what any man says, it's every man's dream to please every woman - and get paid for it."

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2006/11/16/mike_tyson_to_be_a_prostitute?full=1

via FARK.com
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Jeff Gentry on November 17, 2006, 04:09:46 PM
any predictions for the pac-morales fight?

I like pacman for this one, something about Pacman's style appeal's to me.

Jeff
Title: Dempsey in action
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 13, 2007, 06:36:53 AM

vs Willard 1919:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_2pvIMalLM&mode=related&search=

vs Carpentier 1921:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WySmNbLO3nk&mode=related&search=

vs Firpo 1923:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i8CGEOssUI&mode=related&search=

vs Sharkey 1927:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuP0F0dXvQE&mode=related&search=

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on February 12, 2007, 12:53:13 AM
sugar shane looked pretty good in his fight last weekend. did anyone else catch it?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on February 13, 2007, 01:20:20 PM
Unfortunately I didnt find out about it until afterwards. 
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on February 22, 2007, 07:10:49 PM
Oscar and Floyd have been on the road promoting their fight, things are starting to heat up..

These articles can be found at www.fghtnews.com (http://www.fghtnews.com)

Day 2: Oscar-Floyd Tour!

February 22, 2007

By Gary "Digital" Williams & Julian Burgower
Photos: Mike Greenhill

 
Washington DC's Historic Union Station is known as the gateway into the nation's capital, where railway tracks intersect one another in connecting thousands of people every day transiting through and into the city. It the most visited site in Washington, impressive considering that the city hosts such other national hallmarks as the White House, Vietnam Memorial and the Washington Monument.

An estimated 3,000 boxing fans were on hand Wednesday at the station, hoping to catch an eye of two of today's most celebrated warriors -- Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather. In promotion of their May 5th showdown, fans were able today to witness the world of sport imitating the 100-year old landmark in which the traveling press conference was held. Not unlike the endless tracks and glorious archways that Union Station has become to be known, they found two fighters intersecting together in their illustrious careers and looking to walk through the gateway of pugilistic immortality.

Washington, DC was number three on a list of 11 cities to be covered in the much anticipated bout, which is being forecasted to be the highest grossing boxing event in history. HBO's Mark Taffett, impressed with the DC turnout, stated that it is so far the largest crowd of fans since the tour began in New York on February 20th.

As in the previous two press conferences in New York and Philadelphia, Mayweather was introduced first, playing to the pro-"Pretty Boy" crowd as he posed for pictures, signed autographs and stripped down shirtless as his diamond encrusted jewelry sparkled under the lights.

"I know that Oscar will bring his A-game and of course I always bring my A-game- that's why I never turn up on the short end of the stick," declared the always-confident Mayweather. Mayweather continued to reaffirm that the bout was to be his last in a hall of fame career, although many have speculated that the announcement is a promotional ploy or that he will not be able, as many before him, to walk away from the sport at such a high level. "I don't have nothing else to prove to nobody else in the sport. As long as my mother is happy and as long as my children are happy, then I'm happy. I came into this sport to be a legend. On May 5th I'm going to put the official stamp on my legacy."

Mayweather declared that, although he respected De La Hoya's accomplishments as a fighter, De La Hoya was hand fed the right opponents at the right time, a product of careful matchmaking. "He beat Camacho, but he was over the hill. He beat Pernell Whitaker, but he was over the hill. He beat Julio Cesar Chavez, but he was over the hill." No mention though of Oscar's wins over a prime Ike Quartey and disputed decision loss to Felix Trinidad. "Pretty Boy" also guaranteed that he would punish De La Hoya in a toe-to-toe affair and force him into submission. "You can fall on your face; you can fall on your ass; you can fall on your back, or," as Mayweather waved a souvenir flag in front of "The Golden Boy's" face, "you can go like this! I'm known for making them quit!"

The Mayweather camp also chided De La Hoya for being stopped by Bernard Hopkins, current light heavyweight champion and president of Golden Boy East, insinuating that De La Hoya and Hopkins' business relationship after their middleweight championship bout put a question mark on the result as something of a shady nature.

De La Hoya was introduced next, surprisingly to a mixture of both cheers and boos. Much more subdued in his manner, De La Hoya, after thanking his fans and supporters in Washington, also praised Mayweather as a fighter, but pleaded with him to continue his antics. "I'm extremely, extremely motivated for this fight. All the trash talking that you've been doing, that's fine and dandy. He can trash talk all he wants, but come May 5th…he will go down."

As De La Hoya spoke, Mayweather played to the gregarious crowd by imitating Oscar's stand-up fighting style and standing in front of him while he was speaking to use the dais to sign an autograph. "He has no idea what he's getting himself into," seethed De La Hoya. "No idea! You can talk and talk and talk and talk. Just keep going…I urge you to keep going. Keep going!"

De La Hoya concluded with a spirited message in Spanish, which is loosely translated as, "To my people, a special thanks. Thank you for your support. On May 5th, we will find out who is going to win -- the clown or me."

A complete list of cities, locations and schedule for the remaining portion of the De La Hoya- Mayweather Tour can be found here





--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayweather Mad in Motown!
 

February 22, 2007

 

by Andre Courtemanche

Although they were in his home state of Michigan, "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather was in no mood to play gracious host to Oscar De La Hoya at today's press conference, at Cobo Hall in Detroit, to hype the upcoming bout between the two enormously popular fighters.

 

In front of a large crowd of evenly divided fans, Mayweather sprayed a torrent of threats and insults as a surprisingly restrained De La Hoya kept his cool, smiling and laughing.

 

The two superstars will meet for De La Hoya's WBC Light Middleweight title on Saturday, May 5, at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas and live on HBO PPV in a fight entitled "The World Awaits."

 

"It comes down to the Golden Boy against the Pretty Boy and Oscar makes a lot of mistakes," growled the aggressive Mayweather. "I love boxing and I do it well and you all know what I'm going to do to him. May 5, I'm going to bite that ass and he knows it."

 

With a large crowd of evenly divided supporters looking on, Mayweather, who openly professes his dislike for De La Hoya, continued "jumping on his nerves."

 

"37 opponents before him said what they would do to me and they all came up short. This is just number 38. He's going to come up short too. He can say whatever he wants to say, but the eyes tell it all. Look at his eyes. Step up to the plate, you bum. We both have fans, but more fans believe in me, that's why I'm the favorite."

 

Mayweather says he sees a victory over De La Hoya as the icing on a cake that will be presented to him many years from now. "This fight is about putting a stamp on my legacy. This fight is a box and beating him will put a stamp on the box and mail it to (the Boxing Hall of Fame in) Canastota, New York."

 

Exuding confidence, the four-division world champion claims his job will be easier than some think. "He's won a lot of titles, but all his opponents were hand-picked. With my dad in his corner, his chances were slim and none. Without my dad, Slim has left town. I just have to take my time. The game plan is to break him down, go to the body early. Make him miss and make him pay. I just need to go out and execute."
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 07, 2007, 09:46:37 PM
Man, 91, challenges Jack LaLanne, 92 Wed Mar 7, 5:53 PM ET
 


LEWISTON, Maine - All of that Florida sun must be getting to Maine snowbird Roland Fortin. The 91-year-old has laid down a challenge to box fitness guru Jack LaLanne, who's 92. Fortin, former "cut man" for retired boxing champ Joey Gamache, said the idea for the four-round bout was hatched at the Tropical Gym in Pompano Beach, where Fortin works out during the winter in Florida.

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The South Florida Sun-Sentinel in Fort Lauderdale ran the challenge in a half-page ad that gym owner Troy Eckonen took out for Super Bowl Sunday. The purpose, he said, was to let seniors know it's not too late to get in great shape like Fortin.

"Florida is like the waiting room to the casket," Ecknonen said.

So far, the publicity stunt is working for the Tropical Gym, where membership is up. But LaLanne hasn't taken Fortin up on the challenge to enter the ring.

LaLanne's spokeswoman learned of the boxing challenge when she was contacted Tuesday by a reporter from the Sun Journal newspaper in Lewiston.

"That's not quite his cup of tea," Liz Cardenas said Wednesday from California. Besides, she said, LaLanne is too busy traveling for public appearances, and he no longer performs athletic feats for which he was known earlier in his career.

Despite the rebuff, Eckonen has not abandoned the idea. He said he plans to deliver the ad to fight promoter Don King to see if he's interested.

"It'd be a gentleman's fight, obviously," Eckonen said.

Fortin, a widower who has wintered in Florida since retiring from the funeral business decades ago, doesn't think either man would get hurt in a brief square-off. "He'd knock me down, I'd knock him down," he said.

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on May 01, 2007, 01:38:46 AM
anyone else excited for the oscar-mayweather fight this weekend?!?

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 01, 2007, 06:55:03 AM
Well, HBO sure has been pushing it!

You have any predictions Porn Star Dog?  Anyone?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 01, 2007, 08:15:28 AM
I have been watching the 24/7 specials they have "OnDemand."  Anyone else see these?  I got some great training ideas from watching them.

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 01, 2007, 09:51:00 AM
Did they have actual content?  I got bored with the soap opera of it all on the first one I saw and haven't gone back.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 01, 2007, 10:18:26 AM
Im looking forward to this fight.

I haven't seen the latest installment, but contentwise it was ok... I think the most interesting thing I learned so far was that Freddy Roach is dealing with parkinsons and the training is helping him keep it in check.

Personally I would like to see Oscar win even though I like both boxers & the last few boxers that were really able to anger Oscar were knocked out. Yeah I know Floyd is slick and fast. Will Oscar come out and try to mow him down while Floys uses his smooth moves to evade and tire Oscar?? We shall soon see.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 01, 2007, 10:31:18 AM
How much is the fight?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 01, 2007, 11:24:12 AM
According to this blurb on fightnews.com 54.95.

Quote
In addition to De La Hoya-Mayweather, Saturday's 54.95 pay-per-view telecast will also feature two other fights, featherweight Rocky Juarez against Jose Hernandez and super bantamweight Rey Bautista against Sergio Medina.

Actually here is the whole thing:
De La Hoya vs Mayweather:
Fight Week is finally here!
By Karl Freitag
After a three month media campaign that included an eleven city press tour, a half-dozen conference calls, and even a four-part HBO preview, "Fight Week" for Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather officially kicks off today in Las Vegas. Mayweather, who lives and trains in Las Vegas, will simply come across town to make his "grand arrival" at the MGM Grand at 11:30AM. De La Hoya is scheduled to arrive from Puerto Rico via Los Angeles at 12:15PM. Fight fans are invited to meet both fighters at the MGM Grand lobby. On Wednesday, Oscar and Floyd are scheduled to face off in front of reporters at a prefight press conference. On Friday, the weigh-in will be open to the public and is scheduled at 2PM in the MGM Grand Garden Arena.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In addition to De La Hoya-Mayweather, Saturday's 54.95 pay-per-view telecast will also feature two other fights, featherweight Rocky Juarez against Jose Hernandez and super bantamweight Rey Bautista against Sergio Medina.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are two other major fight cards in town on May 4, the eve of the big fight. At the MGM Grand Conference Center Ballroom, WBO flyweight champion Hugo Cazares will defend his title against Wilfrido Perez, plus Francisco "Panchito" Bojado returns. Telefutura will televise. At the Palms Casino Resort, the first-ever professional boxing event in "The Pearl" - a recently opened 2,500 capacity, state-of-the-art theater - will feature undefeated USBA heavyweight champion "Fast" Eddie Chambers against Dominick Guinn. That card will also be televised.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the big announcements that will be made this week is that Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright will take place on July 21 across the street at Mandalay Bay.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
De La Hoya-Mayweather sold out in only three hours and will generate a record live gate of $19.3 million. But what if you don't have tickets and you just have to be there in person? Ticketsnow.com currently has 837 tickets available ranging from $920 to $24,725 each.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At Sportsbook.com, the odds have closed to Mayweather -170, De La Hoya +140. Meanwhile, in the Fightnews.com poll, 62% predict a win for Oscar (43% by KO, 19% by decision), just 38% like Floyd (8% by KO, 30% by decision).
Tuesday, May 1 2007
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on May 02, 2007, 03:59:33 AM
good odds for oscar i think

I'm pulling for oscar, though I think it'll go the distance and mayweather will get the nod. Mayweather is slick and can move, it'll be interesting to see if oscar can goad him into exchanging or cut off the ring to force an exchange.

hopefully it'll be on free tv in asia...
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 02, 2007, 05:39:27 AM
While we are waiting, from the WT forum:
======================
Ray "Boom Boom" Manicini-vs-Duku Kim

This was the fight that ended the 15 round championship fight due to Kim's death from brain damage. This is just the end of the fight but it was a brutal back and forth affair. This fight was as even as could be until the last few rounds. It was like a mirror image fight for the first 11 rounds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThQFPJpVtK8

One of the greatest knock down drag out brawls of all times.

Foreman-vs-Lyle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Kfe...related&search=

What do you do when you have lost every minute of all fourteen rounds......and you have a great left hook?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_2Yn...related&search=

Not a classic fight, but definitely classic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EruTRrg1MPg

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 02, 2007, 08:00:16 PM
http://fightnews.com/

De La Hoya-Mayweather presser!
By Mike Sloan / Photo: Mary Ann Owen

(http://www.fightnews.com/oscar_floyd_presser_mao.jpg)

Comments were brief at today's final press conference for Saturday's Oscar De La Hoya vs Floyd Mayweather showdown at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. Both fighters stated their training camps were perfect and this is the biggest fight of their lives. De La Hoya said, "I've never been this focused and this motivated in my life....this is the fight of my life....on Cinco de Mayo I will prove that I am still the best pound-for-pound fighter." Floyd recalled the days when both fighters fought under the Top Rank banner. "I never wanted to get close to him because I always knew I was going to fight him," stated Floyd. "Now is my chance to prove that I'm the best." Floyd's trainer Roger Mayweather commented, "This fight is supposed to be the greatest fighter against the greatest popular fighter, but we all know what will happen. Someone's getting their a-- kicked and it ain't going to be my nephew." Oscar's trainer Freddie Roach countered, "I don't have much to say, all I know is it's going to be a real short night." Things were calm when fighters faced off for photographers. They will weigh-in at 2PM Friday.
Wednesday, May 2 2007

NEWS FLASH
Oscar, Floyd quick quotes!
By Albert Howell
Oscar de la Hoya: "We are ready for this fight. Floyd Mayweather is always in good shape. We are expecting the best-of-the-best. Having Freddy Roach in my corner I believe will make a difference.....It is up to us two fighters to fight the best we can. I am going to fight as hard as I can. May 5th is an important date for me and I have trained hard to beat Floyd Mayweather on May 5th."
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.: "I am here. I know what it takes. I am hungry and I am willing to die on May 5th.....I am looking forward to giving the fans excitement. On May 5th you will see the best Floyd Mayweather."
Freddy Roach, Trainer for Oscar de la Hoya: "We had a great training camp in Puerto Rico. My guy is ready to go. Don't miss this one! It might not last long."
Roger Mayweather, Trainer for Floyd Mayweather: "My nephew knows nothing about losing. He only knows winning."
Wednesday, May 2 2007

Title: De La Hoya-Mayweather will separate boxing from thuggish UFC
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 03, 2007, 12:50:43 PM
I think this could go into either the Boxing or MMA Thread. I for one enjoy both sports but this guy is definitely opinionated.
Youll have to go the site and read the rest of the article for some reason the 2nd page it taking forever to load....sorry.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10162545/1

This is what the Oscar De La Hoya-Floyd Mayweather fight, one of the most important events in recent sports history, really means: It's boxing's last stand.

Boxing is fighting for its life, and in some ways the largest obstacle to its rebirth is its greatest competitor -- the worst league ever invented, the UFC. Which means it is good vs. evil, Halle Berry vs. Courtney Love, true sport against the mosh pit of sweat and bloodied skull fractures known as ultimate fighting.

   
It's up to Oscar and Floyd to get boxing back on the national landscape. (Getty Images)   
De La Hoya and Mayweather can single-handedly save their sport from deteriorating into dust while simultaneously stopping the advance of the UFC barbarians at the gate, trying to destroy boxing by polluting pay-per-view with their brand of low-brow, ghetto-fabulous hooliganism.

This is it. This is when boxing emerges from its great depression riding the shoulders of De La Hoya and finally strikes a blow to the caged ignorance that is mixed martial arts.

It will happen.

In the coming days, you will read foofs who will say boxing can never survive, despite one of the more glorious bouts just several days away. On Thursday, you will attempt to stomach the dopey ramblings of my good friend Gregg Doyel, otherwise known as Captain Persnickety, downplaying this grand moment in history. He's probably another ultimate fighting apologist as well.

Mixed martial arts will never be as good as boxing on its worst day. Many of the ultimates are nothing but thugs and ruffians. All that league has done is take a few former nightclub bouncers, knuckle crackers and parolees, put on some fancy TV graphics and told them, "Kick the other guy in the nuts."

No skill is required to knee someone in the groin (and it happens despite rules stating it is illegal). I'm kneeing Doyel in the groin now. See, was that difficult?

Next on Spike TV: Man eats another man's face. Then some dork will call it a sport.

The UFC has no credibility. UFC equals the Ultimate Farcical Clown league.

And please do not wax poetic about the UFC's popularity. Of course people watch the UFC. It's human cockfighting. It appeals to the lowest common denominator of human existence.

The message boards and my e-mail will be irradiated with balderdash about how the mainstream media is simply a bunch of snobs and we don't "get" the Ultimate Farcical Clown league. I love the NFL. Only Roman gladiators had a more dangerous sporting profession. The NFL is more violent than the UFC, but football at least possesses a veneer of being civilized.

Boxing is almost comically imperfect. It is full of crooks, con artists and ear biters (and that's just a weekend in Atlantic City with Mike Tyson). Despite its faults and notwithstanding the massive greed that has caused boxing to collapse on itself like a dying sun, boxing has more charm in its broken pinky than the Ultimate Farcical Clown league does in its entire crappy organization.

Title: Part 2 - De La Hoya-Mayweather will separate boxing from thuggish UFC
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 03, 2007, 01:03:42 PM
THIS IS PART TWO FROM THE ARTICLE ABOVE

No UFC goon has or ever will possess the grace and natural showmanship of De La Hoya or the true fearsome fighting skills of Mayweather.

Advertisement
   
 
Notice the word: skills. This match will not resemble a bar-room brawl but meticulous, highly practiced, man-to-man warfare between two skilled, all-time athletes.

It is only a matter of time before the UFC suckers, er, fans realize they have been fooled by a Jedi mind trick.

The UFC should be banned; the De La Hoya-Mayweather bout should be embraced.

The fact a non-heavyweight match is getting so much attention shows that boxing still has appeal (and even I once thought it was dead). The fact boxing has survived despite so many scandals and crooked promoters demonstrate it has resilience.

"This (fight) is important because boxing is at its lowest point and boxing has been at its lowest point for quite a while now," De La Hoya told the New York Post. "Boxing is always taking these low blows left and right from people. This will give it a good shot in the arm."

The fight can do more than that. It can begin a resurgence perhaps not seen before in American sports. If the fight is particularly competitive, casual fans will give boxing another look and the all-important advertisers will again open their wallets instead of turning their backs.

Then maybe we can begin to put the sad joke that is the UFC behind us.

And once again we can get excited about a real sport.

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: krait44 on May 03, 2007, 02:01:57 PM
Robertlk808

Are you joking, I can't tell. If so don't read any further.

I am by no means a UFC fan I love boxing and have been watching it since the early 80's. The UFC definitely has some skill, for Couture to keep on fighting tough 25yr olds at 40 that is something.

Boxing is down for the count, if you ask me. Sure, it is beautiful but pretending that you can't kick or do a takedown doesn't cut it anymore. The West knows that fighting is much more dynamic than that.

I wish it weren't so, I am much better in standup without kicking or takedowns but there has been a paradigm shift. 
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 03, 2007, 02:09:28 PM
Joking about what? That is an actual article written by Mike Freeman that was posted @ http://cbs.sportsline.com
Perhaps I should have clarified that I didnt write the article. I just find it astound as to how someone can still think this way of the UFC especially a journalist.  Maybe it is his own way of trying to save boxing.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 03, 2007, 02:18:26 PM
Also at cbs.com is this article, the counter to Mike Freeman by Gregg Doyel

http://cbs.sportsline.com/columns/story/10164182

Boxing is dead, but its brain still hasn't gotten the message to the body. That will come after this weekend, after Oscar De La Hoya fights Floyd Mayweather. Don't be fooled by whatever noise comes out of Las Vegas. It's just boxing's death rattle.

   
Once Oscar De La Hoya retires, what will boxing have to offer? (Getty Images)   
Boxing has been dying for years, of course. But the old boy has bled and wheezed and stumbled onward because, frankly, there was nothing to take its place. Nothing to finish off this once-regal sport -- which has spent decades hitting itself in the stomach -- with a fist to the face.

There's something to finish off boxing now. If you know what I'm talking about, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And if you don't know, you're going to laugh or scoff or leave this page so you can read cranky old Mike Freeman grump about all those whippersnappers and hooligans in the UFC. Freeman was listening to Bananarama and wearing denim shorts when he wrote that column. Denim shorts are out, you know. They're yesterday.

So is boxing. Boxing is out. Expired. Irrelevant.

Mixed martial arts -- MMA, thank you very much -- will be the new boxing. And the UFC will be the new WBA. Or WBC. Or WBO. Or IBF. Or whatever useless string of letters boxing tried to throw together as it took its final breaths.

Boxing is dead not just because boxing is worse than ever -- which it is -- but also because the UFC is better than boxing on all but boxing's best day. Give boxing a charmer like Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard, and give him some talented competition like Joe Frazier or Thomas Hearns, and boxing has a chance. Give boxing Ruslan Chagaev and Vitali Klitschko, and it's being rushed to the hospital, its heart stopped, none of the doctors caring enough to save it.

And don't give me De La Hoya-Mayweather. What are they, welterweights? Middleweights? I'm not looking it up, because I don't care. And that's the point. Boxing has lost me, and lots of people like me, because the fighters aren't as good, the rivalries aren't as compelling, and the access -- it's all about (free) TV, people -- isn't as easy.

The heavyweight champion used to be the most famous man in the world. But boxing is so inept now that when its heavyweight champ was a 7-foot, 325-pound circus act, most people still couldn't name him (he was Nikolai Valuev, and you didn't miss much.)

In the 1980s boxing grabbed me by the heart with Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Leonard, "Hit Man" Hearns and Aaron Pryor. Alexis Arguello, Tony Ayala and Dwight Qawi. Sean O'Grady and Cornelius Boza-Edwards. Marvin Johnson. Yaqui Lopez.

Now it's full of ... who? Who matters in boxing beyond De La Hoya and Mayweather? Nobody, and De La Hoya will probably retire after this fight. That'll leave Mayweather to fight somebody you've never heard of. Let's see HBO market that.

Meanwhile, the UFC is growing impossibly fast even without a major television breakthrough. Spike TV airs old UFC cards on Tuesdays and the reality show The Ultimate Fighter 5 on Thursdays (Corey Hill is a future champ, Gabe Ruediger is a narcissistic fraud and Jens Pulver is my kind of coach). But that's not the TV breakthrough I have in mind.

UFC also is growing as a pay-per-view ticket, breaking some boxing (and pro wrestling) records and soon to break them all. Until this spring the UFC had been a West Coast phenomenon, but when it visited Columbus, Ohio, in March it sold all 19,000 available tickets in hours. Earlier this month the UFC went to England for a free show on Spike. The UFC is spreading globally -- but that's not the TV breakthrough, either.

As soon as ESPN and UFC president Dana White make a deal, UFC will reach a tipping point -- on its way to becoming more popular than boxing ever was. Mark my words. The sport is that cool, and after growing underground, it's ready to rise up and swallow boxing whole.

Basically, the UFC is everything boxing should be. Fast action. Quick fights, even ones that go the distance. Brutal knockouts. Fascinating characters. And in White the UFC has a magnetic, believable front man that boxing, stuck with Don King and Bob Arum, lacks.

The whole process -- UFC in, boxing out -- is happening faster than you realize, because behind the scenes boxing is being robbed by mixed martial arts. Boxing gyms are yesterday. MMA workout dens are today and tomorrow. Talented young fighters now have a choice, and many are chasing the UFC, not the IBF. As that talent drain continues, boxing's slide will become irreversible. Maybe it already has become irreversible. OK by me. Boxing had its chance and blew it. Kind of like the Tyrannosaurus.

This weekend, two of the last dinosaurs will go at it in Las Vegas. People will watch, because old habits die hard.

Fine.

A funeral deserves a good turnout.


Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: krait44 on May 03, 2007, 05:37:01 PM
Ok thanks,

I did think you wrote it.


Sorry.

Chris
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 03, 2007, 06:58:42 PM
No problem Chris. 
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 06, 2007, 07:46:13 AM
I don't mean to complain but was there anyone else disappointed with the quality of the event production last night?

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 06, 2007, 08:48:14 AM
Well, we passed on spending $55 for boxing  :roll:

BTW, my seven year old and I were watching the promo clips yesterday and he said he thought Mayweather was going to win.  I asked why.  "Because he seems to do more hard training and the other guy seems to mostly be talking."  :-D
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Jeff Gentry on May 06, 2007, 09:30:22 AM
I don't mean to complain but was there anyone else disappointed with the quality of the event production last night?

Gruhn

Yea i was a little disappointed myself with the Mayweather-Da Lahoya fight, I thought the Bautista fight was more exciting, the main event seemed very slow for all the talk of how fast Da Lahoya was I didn't see it, Mayweather seemed to be lacking his normal power, I was hoping this would be a knock down drag out brawl of speed and movement, maybe my expectation's were just too high.

Jeff
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 06, 2007, 09:33:59 AM
By the looks of the 24/7 series I was really looking forward to a top quality show so we did spend the $55  :roll:  I think this might have been boxings last chance to capture back a young spectator audience.  With the commentators being of the older generation, most hard to understand, not making sense, etc. it was really hard for us to get into it.  Not to mention HBO's classic look that made it feel like we were watching a fight from 1982.  I dunno, I might be sounding a little harsh but I callz 'em like I seez 'em!

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 06, 2007, 03:01:08 PM
Hmmmm well......

I thought it was a decent fight, I would have liked to see Oscar just a tad more active and it was nice to see him more aggressive, I think if he used his Jab more often then the fight may have had a different outcome.  Mayweather is an excellent boxer but he didnt shut down nor did he "whoop his ass" like Roger Mayweather bragged about at the end of the fight. Overall I think it was a good fight. Worth the $55, I don't know but I enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: armydoc on May 07, 2007, 10:41:40 PM
I may be in the minority, but I was not at all happy with the decision after the De La Hoya - Mayweather fight.  How can they take away a champion's belt with punch stats alone?  Everyone seemed to acknowledge that Mayweather won the split decision because he landed a higher percentage of punches.  But I ask...what happened to considerations such as "ring generalship", "aggression", and being the "busier" fighter?  If these things no longer count in boxing, then why do they need ringside judges?  Seems to me all they would have to do would be add up the punch stats at the end of the fight, and as long as no one got knocked out they'd have their winner!  There used to be a time in boxing when in order to take away the champion's title and belt you had to win decisively.  That meant a knockout, or if it went the distance there had to be little doubt in anyone's mind who won the fight.   Oscar said afterward in an interview that "I don't think I lost that fight."  I agree!  Mayweather was not fighting to win, he was fighting not to lose! 

They were building up this fight as the biggest draw for boxing in many years with the hopes that it would bring more old fans back to boxing and create new fans to give boxing a "shot in the arm."   Well, this old fan is not convinced to come back.  I would also venture to guess that a lot of the "general sports fans" that tuned in and watched Oscar chase Mayweather around the ring the whole fight, back him up against the ropes repeatedly to throw a flurry of punches,....and still lose on a split decision....didn't become new boxing fans.

I'm surprised no one has commented on Jim Lampley's cheap shot at MMA.   He said after the fight something along the lines of  "MMA may be entertaining, but you won't see the caliber of fighters that you saw here tonight."   That's crap. 

I do have to agree with Jeff.  The fighter I was most impressed with was  Bautista.

Anyway...I still think boxing is on the way out and that this much hyped event didn't do much to slow its decline.   But that's just my opinion.  :-)

Keith
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 08, 2007, 06:31:40 AM
I won't be seeing the fight until it is on for free, but I suspect you are right Keith.

As for Lampley, I met him several times (bit of a story there) and never cared for him at all.

Anyway, a bit off subject, but here's this:

Boxer Corrales dies in crash
The former IBF super-featherweight and WBC lightweight champ is killed on motorcycle in Las Vegas. He was 29.
By Lance Pugmire, Times Staff Writer
May 8, 2007


 
Former champion
 click to enlarge
Former world champion boxer Diego Corrales was killed in a motorcycle accident Monday night in Las Vegas.

A Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department source confirmed Corrales was killed in the evening crash and was "traveling at a high rate of speed" before impact. The spokesman said at least one other vehicle was involved and that one person in an automobile at the scene had sustained minor injuries.

Another police spokesman, Blake Quackenbush, confirmed there was a fatal collision involving a motorcycle near the intersection of South Fort Apache Road and Hacienda Avenue in southwest Las Vegas.

Boxing trainer Joe Goossen and Jin Mosley, a close friend of the boxer, said the victim was Corrales, 29.

"It's confirmed, he's dead," said Mosley, the wife of Pomona boxer Shane Mosley. "Details are sketchy. We were told he was going over 100 mph. We're in absolute shock, this is tragic. He has a baby on the way."

Corrales' boxing promoter, Gary Shaw, said the fighter's manager told him he saw Corrales "under the sheets with his helmet on," with a "new racing bike" nearby. "We're being told he ran into the back of a car and was struck by another from behind," Shaw said.

Corrales (40-5, with 33 knockouts), a former International Boxing Federation super-featherweight and World Boxing Council lightweight champion, reached what Goossen called "the pinnacle" of his career in 2005, when he rallied from two 10th-round knockdowns to knock out Jose Luis Castillo.

"In my 35 years, that was the greatest fight I've ever seen," said Goossen, who was Corrales' trainer.

Castillo failed to make weight in two scheduled rematches, however, and a third meeting in June 2006 was scrapped, costing Corrales a $1.2-million payday, Goossen said.

The fighter's career began to spiral. He showed up overweight for an October 2006 lightweight title defense against Joel Casamayor, then lost by split decision. Last month, Corrales lost a unanimous decision to Joshua Clottey in a welterweight bout.

Shaw said Corrales' life "was in a tailspin" after that loss, and "we were trying to put his life back together." Corrales had also negotiated to join Oscar De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, but the deal never materialized, boxing sources said.

"The guy was a true warrior; simply by the way he fought, he should be in the hall of fame," Shaw said. "Believe me, if he could've got off that cold pavement, he would."

Jin Mosley said Corrales was suffering marital and financial difficulties with his wife, Michelle, six months pregnant.

"Diego was not immune to the pitfalls of life, especially as a young man surrounded by the fame and fortune of this game," Goossen said. "His better times in boxing were behind him. I'm sure he felt he was in a bad spot. It's too bad Diego couldn't stay in the top place he once was. Now, we'll all say prayers for him."

Corrales discussed his motorcycle riding last summer in a Las Vegas Review-Journal story.

"I'm only young once and, unless someone hasn't told me something yet, I only get to live once," said Corrales. "If I couldn't do this stuff now, stuff I always wanted to do, I would never get a chance to do it."

Corrales is survived by his wife and five children, Jin Mosley said.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 08, 2007, 02:57:20 PM
Wow, thats sad.  Didnt he just fight last month?
Title: Cintron targets UFC titlist! -
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 08, 2007, 03:59:45 PM
www.fightnews.com (http://www.fightnews.com)
Cintron targets UFC titlist!
Floyd Mayweather Jr. says he doesn't want to battle a UFC champion. No problem. IBF World Welterweight Champion and former high school/college wrestling star Kermit Cintron would like to accept the challenge from UFC President Dana White, it was announced today by Main Events CEO Kathy Duva. Cintron, who will be defending his IBF crown against mandatory challenger Walter Matthysse on July 14 in Atlantic City, NJ, would like to battle the UFC champion following his June IBF title defense. "I want the fight," said Cintron. "I can wrestle. I can box. I can beat those UFC fighters at their own game. Tell Mr. White to make me an offer and I'll take on his guy after I fight Matthysse on July 14." Cintron (27-1, 25 KO's) captured the vacant IBF crown on October 28, 2006, when he destroyed Mark Suarez in six rounds (TKO 6). The 27-year-old Reading, PA resident by way of Carolinas, Puerto Rico once finished 10th at the NJCAA Wrestling Championships. As a senior in high school he was offered full wrestling scholarships to Wisconsin University and Ohio State University. The Cintron-Matthysse bout will serve as the co-feature to the Arturo Gatti-Alfonso Gomez contest. Main Events is promoting the July 14 evening of boxing, in association with The Tournament of Contenders, LLC and Caesars Atlantic City.
Tuesday, May 8 2007
Title: Re: Cintron targets UFC titlist! -
Post by: Jeff Gentry on May 08, 2007, 05:53:25 PM
www.fightnews.com (http://www.fightnews.com)
Cintron targets UFC titlist!
Floyd Mayweather Jr. says he doesn't want to battle a UFC champion. No problem. IBF World Welterweight Champion and former high school/college wrestling star Kermit Cintron would like to accept the challenge from UFC President Dana White, it was announced today by Main Events CEO Kathy Duva. Cintron, who will be defending his IBF crown against mandatory challenger Walter Matthysse on July 14 in Atlantic City, NJ, would like to battle the UFC champion following his June IBF title defense. "I want the fight," said Cintron. "I can wrestle. I can box. I can beat those UFC fighters at their own game. Tell Mr. White to make me an offer and I'll take on his guy after I fight Matthysse on July 14." Cintron (27-1, 25 KO's) captured the vacant IBF crown on October 28, 2006, when he destroyed Mark Suarez in six rounds (TKO 6). The 27-year-old Reading, PA resident by way of Carolinas, Puerto Rico once finished 10th at the NJCAA Wrestling Championships. As a senior in high school he was offered full wrestling scholarships to Wisconsin University and Ohio State University. The Cintron-Matthysse bout will serve as the co-feature to the Arturo Gatti-Alfonso Gomez contest. Main Events is promoting the July 14 evening of boxing, in association with The Tournament of Contenders, LLC and Caesars Atlantic City.
Tuesday, May 8 2007

Well i never thought it would happen, If Cintron has a good wrestling base maybe this will be a good fight depending on the rule set if they go UFC rule's and he can keep it standing depending on who the UFC send's this could prove to be good, I am not sure waht weight an IBF welter weight is.

If nothing else it should be interesting.

Jeff
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 08, 2007, 07:18:50 PM
Why would the rules change?  :?

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 08, 2007, 07:23:55 PM
IIRC a boxing welterweight is 147 pounds.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 08, 2007, 07:30:53 PM
Sherk could never make a catch weight.  They would have to fight 155.  Do you think this is what Cintron has in mind?

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: SB_Mig on May 11, 2007, 02:43:40 PM
Just saw this today:

ESPN's 150 GREATEST BOXERS


http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest150
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: SB_Mig on May 11, 2007, 03:28:26 PM
oops...

50 greatest :-D
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Jeff Gentry on May 11, 2007, 04:19:39 PM
If it is boxing rule's the UFC guy lose's alot of weapon's, If it is UFC rule's most boxer's will have trouble with knee's in the clinch and defending kick's, the rule's make the game.

Just a thought i would still love to see how it play's out regardless.

Jeff
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Sisco T. on May 15, 2007, 03:37:37 PM
delahoya vs. mayweather........

i just wanted to say this was one of the most frustrating boxing bouts I have watched. i am one of the biggest advocates of oscar but the way he fought against mayweather had me not watching the last 3 rounds. one of the most puzzling things he said after they asked why he stopped using the jab after the 1st few rounds,''it just wasn't a jab night''! mayweather fought a tactically flawless fight to me, and the one judge who had oscar as the winner must have been paying too much attention to the ring girls.

Francisco
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on May 17, 2007, 09:31:20 AM
It really makes me wonder if the fight was all about the Benjamin's!

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 17, 2007, 03:24:33 PM
Hmm, , , , lets see , , , $20 mil for Mayweather + $55mil for Oscar + the fact that is boxing we are talking bout here=_____
Title: Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Winky Wright
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on May 18, 2007, 12:09:34 PM
http://www.boxingbuzz.com/peter-klitschko/greenhill3.htm

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on June 09, 2007, 09:48:13 PM
the cotto-judah fight was great fun, lots of good speed and solid technique, great boxing match over eleven rounds...
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 09, 2007, 09:58:11 PM
Who won?

I saw a promo piece on HBO for it the other day-- it looks like the boxing folks at HBO are beginning to realize that MMA is a serious threat to their survivial and are starting to tighten up their promotional game.
Title: Cottos vs Judah (spoiler) Dont read if you havent seen the fight.
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on June 09, 2007, 11:38:47 PM
This sounds like an exciting fight! Hopefully I can catch the replay.

WBA welterweight champion Miguel Cotto (30-0, 25 KOs) scored an eleventh round TKO over Zab Judah (34-5, 25 KOs) in a wild back and forth classic on Saturday before a crowd of 20,658 at a sold out Madison Square Garden in New York City. In round one Judah hurt Cotto with an uppercut, Cotto put Judah on the deck with a low blow. Cotto was effective for most of round two, but was rocked again by Judah at the end of the round. Cotto continued the pressure in the third and another low blow put Judah down again. A point was deducted from Cotto. Cotto was bleeding from the mouth as Judah found a home for the left hand. Judah was cut over the right eye in the fourth as he was hammered by Cotto. Cotto was cut over the right eye in the sixth but wobbled Judah midway through the round. Judah opened up and hurt Cotto again in the seventh. Cotto was back on the attack in an exciting eighth. Judah's right eye was starting to close in the ninth and Judah took a knee to escape Cotto's assault. Cotto continued to brutalize Judah in the tenth. Judah was floored by a right hand in the eleventh and referee Arthur Mercante Jr. stopped the fight after Cotto's followup assault. Time was :49.
Title: Re: Didnt take very long....
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on June 28, 2007, 05:43:30 PM
Looks like Mayweather is coming out of retirement.

Mayweather targets Hatton!
Floyd vows to beat him all the way back to England.
"Ricky Hatton has talked nonstop about fighting me for the last two weeks," says 'retired' WBC welterweight/super welterweight champion Floyd Mayweather. "He has disrespected me and my accomplishments in the ring, and I take that very seriously. I'm going to give him the opportunity to step up and fight the best in the world. I don't think this punk will take the challenge." A potential bout against Hatton would set the stage for a match-up between two of the sports best undefeated fighters. With his win over Castillo, Hatton improved his record to 43-0 with 31 KO's. Mayweather is 38-0 with 24 KO's. "Now that Hatton has opened up his big mouth, he might start to think about what he has been asking for," continued Mayweather. "Does he really want to step into the ring with best fighter of this era and embarrass himself? Being the coward that he is, I doubt he'll get in the ring. We'll see what his excuse will be this time."
Tuesday, June 26 2007
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 04, 2007, 11:04:50 PM
Ali, Sugar Ray and Mike Tyson together on the Arsenio Hall show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyfzyvEKLCo
Title: Vargas vs Mayorga
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on July 12, 2007, 01:26:37 PM
This should be an exciting fight!

Vargas-Mayorga erupts!
http://www.fightnews.com/salazar533.htm

They got into it during the press conference.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on July 14, 2007, 06:39:24 PM
great knockout by kermit cintron and arturo gatti is fighting next (i lol'd when they mentioned that they brought mickey ward in to help train/motivate him...life is funny/quirky sometimes)

Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 18, 2007, 03:31:56 PM
Marquez vs. Vasquez:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw9Hntr9M7g
Title: When Boxing was a Martial Art
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 23, 2007, 10:52:01 AM
TO KUNG FU MAGAZINE
Wisdom for Body & Mind
Wed, November 21, 2007

When Boxing was a Martial Art The Sweet Science of Bare-knuckle Pugilism
by Frank Allen

Striking with the fist as an organized sport came to the British Isles in 43 C.E. with the Roman invasion. The Romans adopted the Greek Olympic sport and created even more brutal versions of their own often involving the use of studded gauntlets. The sport of boxing left the British Isles with the last of the Roman legions in 436 C.E. and did not reappear for almost 1300 years. During the Middle Ages, armed combat was the order of the day, and wrestling reigned as the combat sport of the common people appearing at fairs and festivals. There was no art or science to striking techniques which were only used in all-out brawling.

In the second decade of the 1700's, the premier fencer in England was James Figg. He was considered to be the national champion of backsword and quarterstaff which he taught at his Fighting Academy on Tottenham Court Road in London. It was at this Fighting Academy that Figg devised his method of "fencing with the fists" and in 1719, declared himself to be the Bare-Knuckle Champion of England. He defended this title against several challengers including his arch rival Ned Sutton whom he defeated with fists, staff, and sword.

With the help of his patron, the Earl of Peterborough, Figg opened the first London arena devoted to prize fighting. It was located on Oxford Road and known as Figg's Ampitheatre. His advertising card was designed by the famous artist William Hogarth. Hogarth painted a portrait of his friend the fighter dressed as a gentleman with a powdered wig, lace shirt, and fists clenched in front of him. Figg's Amphitheatre catered to the gentlemen of London's upper classes so Figg often performed at Southwark Fair to the delight of his working class fans. He would set up a booth and take on all comers.

Figg remained undefeated in these booth matches and his occasional formal title defenses until his retirement in 1734. Upon Figg's retirement, his top student George Taylor declared himself to be the new British Champion. Figg remained popular with the gentry and socialized with the Prince of Wales and other Royal Family members until his death in 1740. Years after his death, Figg became known as the "Father of Boxing."

The Art of Boxing Develops

Boxing during the Figg and Taylor decades was an all-out anything goes bare-knuckle fight with absolutely no rules. Figg and Taylor defeated their brash opponents by adapting fencing techniques to fist fighting. They fought out of a fencer's stance and threw power punches with a fencer's lunge. All this would change with boxing's first Renaissance Man, the third British Bare-Knuckle Boxing Champion, Jack Broughton.

Broughton defeated Taylor in 1738 to win the championship. The turning point of his career and the art of boxing came in 1741, when Broughton defeated George "The Coachman" Stevenson in a brutal 45 minute bout. Stevenson died as a result of the beating he took from Broughton. Broughton was so moved that he decided to affect a change in his beloved sport. He was already the first boxer to use a preconceived strategy. Broughton would size up his opponent's technique before a bout and adjust his style to take advantage of his opponent's weaknesses. The Stevenson bout led Jack to write the very first rules for the sport of Boxing.

Broughton's Rules stated that the contest would take place on a raised platform with a wooden rail around it, and a three foot square marked in the middle. A bout began with both fighters placing one of their feet on a line of the square and across from his opponent. A round lasted until a man went down, then both fighters had a half minute to "toe the line" and begin to fight again. This was thirty assisted seconds in which a boxer's handlers would work on him for the entire time. This made it difficult to knock a man out. Many fighters broke a knuckle with a punch that would end a fight by modern rules. Thirty seconds later they were facing a refreshed opponent and a broken knuckle. This led to a great deal of body punching, grappling and long fights of attrition. Any fighter who could not toe the line in the allotted time was the loser.

Broughton's Rules also said that nobody could be on the platform, but the boxers and their seconds, that two umpires would be chosen from the audience to settle disputes, and that fighters could not hit a fallen opponent nor could they touch the other fighter below the waist at any time for any reason. These rules still left ample opportunity for martial improvisation. All types of striking and grappling were allowed as long as it was above the waist and the opponent was standing. This style of fighting was not too different from the Chinese Platform Challenge Matches that were taking place on the other side of the world then.

Broughton's Rules were accepted in 1743 and were Boxing's only rules until 1838. Broughton also invented Boxing's first gloves, which he called "The Mufflers." Broughton's mufflers were used in training and exhibition matches and contributed greatly to the number of young noblemen who studied Boxing for health and fitness in Broughton's school. The Duke of Cumberland was Broughton's patron and he got Jack a position in Yeomen of the Guard, which Broughton held until his death at the age of 85.

The Duke bet heavily on Broughton when he met Figg's grandson, "The Norwich Butcher," Jack Slack. Slack was a rough and tumble fighter who billed himself as "The Knight of the Cleaver" and was known for his "Chopper" punch. The Chopper punch was the equivalent of a modern rabbit punch to the back of the neck, and mimicked the motion of work in his butcher shop. During the first ten minutes of the match Slack all but closed Broughton's eyes. The Duke of Cumberland, fearing for his wager, called out, "What are you about Broughton? You can't fight! You're beat!" To which Broughton replied, "I can't see my man, your Highness, I am blind, but not beat; only let me be placed before my antagonist, and he shall not gain the day yet!" This bravado did him no good and Slack won the bout at the 14 minute mark. The Duke of Cumberland withdrew his support and Broughton retired from Boxing. He turned his arena/school into a profitable antique shop.

Despite his illustrious heritage, Slack brought about Boxing's first of many disreputable periods. He threw fights of his own, fixed the results of other boxers matches and generally brought on the first era of the boxing scandal

The Patriarch of Irish Clever Boxers

Boxing as an art form was raised to new heights with the rise to prominence of the Spanish-English Jew, Daniel Mendoza. Being raised in London's East End, and of Spanish descent and Jewish faith, one can assume that Mendoza learned to fight early, although he was only 5 feet 7 inches tall and never weighed more than 168 pounds. Mendoza competed from the mid-1780's until 1820. Probably due to his size, Mendoza was the first boxer to popularize a style in which footwork, jabbing and defense were used to overcome brute force. It is often said that Mendoza was the first to put the "science" into the Sweet Science.

In his first match, Mendoza beat a fighter who was known as Harry the Coalheaver. Daniel was first recognized as a top rank boxer in 1787 when he defeated Sam "The Bath Butcher" Martin. However, it was his four-fight series with "The Gentleman Fighter" Richard Humphries that really brought him to the public eye. The two were very well matched and Humphries won their first match in 1787. Mendoza was ahead in their return match the following year, when he suffered a leg injury at the 29 minute mark and had to throw in the towel. In 1789, Mendoza dominated their third match and won in 52 minutes. When he beat The Gentleman in 15 minutes the following year, Humphries retired.

Mendoza became the British Boxing Champion with his win over Bill Warr in 1794. With this title he toured England, Scotland and Ireland with the Aston Circus. This tour greatly increased the popularity of Mendoza's Scientific Style of boxing and it became the rage of young boxers throughout the British Isles. While touring Ireland, he was challenged and had his skills, heritage, and faith insulted by one Squire Fitzgerald. When Mendoza met and thoroughly thrashed this upstart member of the Irish gentry, he and his boxing style became the pride of the Irish working class and their inspiration to learn to box. It was in this manner that a Spanish-English Jew became the Patriarch of Irish Clever Boxers. In April of 1795, Mendoza lost the title to "Gentleman" John Jackson, who weighed over 200 pounds and specialized in the left jab. It was Jackson's third and last fight.

Mendoza became one of Britain's most respected boxing instructors, and continued to fight on and off until 1820. At the age of 56, he lost his last fight to 52 year old Tom Owens who invented the dumbbell weight. Mendoza lived until the age of 73.

The First Afro-American Boxing Stars

The early years of the 1800's saw the rise of the first Afro-American boxing stars. Bill Richmond was born on Staten Island, New York, which housed British Military Headquarters in the American Colonies. During the Revolutionary War, Richmond worked for the household of General Earl Percy. When Percy returned to England as the Duke of Northumberland Richmond went with him. Although he was only a 5 foot-6 inch, 165 pound middleweight under the Duke's patronage, Richmond met and defeated a number of England's top heavyweights. He beat Jack Carter, Atkinson of Bandbury, Ike Wood, Tom Davis, Tom Shelton, and split a pair of fights with George Maddox. But he couldn't defeat the Champion, Tom Cribb, who knocked Richmond out in 1805. Although he fought as "The Black Terror," Richmond was known for his gentlemanly demeanor and lifestyle

Tom Molineaux was born a slave, on a plantation in Virginia. He, his father and brothers fought matches against slaves from other plantations for their owner, Algernon Molineaux. One time before a fight upon which very heavy stakes were wagered, the master offered Tom his freedom if he won. Tom won, Algernon was true to his word, and Tom was off for New York. While working on the docks in New York, Molineaux heard about the success of Bill Richmond and immediately signed on as a deck hand headed for England. Once in England, this 5 foot 8 inch-tall, 195-pound ebony warrior announced that he was "The Moor" Champion of America (a title that did not exist), and that he could beat any man including retired champion, Tom Cribb. He then found Bill Richmond and convinced him to both train him and back him.

Cribb was not pleased with any of this and talked his friend and protege, Bill "the British Unknown" Burrows into taking on the Moor. When Molineaux stopped the British Unknown with a series of short punches to the head, Cribb turned to veteran boxer Tom Blake. When Molineaux easily defeated Blake, he tried to declare himself the Champion of England. This prompted Cribb to finally accept the challenge of Molineaux the Moor.

The two fighters met in an outside ring on a cold and rainy December day in 1810. It was perhaps one of the two most outstanding matches of the Bare-Knuckle Era. Molineaux drew first blood in the second round, and was clearly the harder puncher of the two. Cribb was relentless and kept up a continual body attack. The Moor dropped the champion in the 28th round, and Cribb failed to beat the 30 second count. But Cribb's second accused the black fighter of hardening his punch with bullets in his hand. While the umpires searched for the nonexistent bullets, Cribb revived and the match continued. A couple of rounds later, Molineaux began to shiver from the cold and show signs of exhaustion. In the 33rd round he collapsed to the ground, looked up at his second, Bill Richmond, and said, "Me can fight no more! " He then fell into unconsciousness and had to be carried from the ring.

Cribb tried to retire again, but within a few months a revised Molineaux defeated Jim Rimmer and tried to claim the championship again. This brought the 5 foot 10 inches tall 200 pound champion out of retirement again. While Cribb was training arduously in Scotland, training camp being an innovation in boxing, Molineaux, now estranged from the gentlemanly Richmond, was enjoying his very first stint as a party animal.

They met for the second time in December of 1811, and the Moor's power almost won the day early when he completely closed one of Cribb's eyes. The Champion couldn't see until one of his seconds lanced the bruised area around the eye. From that point on, Cribb's stamina began to win the day. He dropped Molineaux with a body punch in the sixth round and finally caught the Moor flush in the 11th, breaking his jaw and stopping him. Molineaux traveled Britain with a Boxing and Wrestling Show, but continued his dissipated lifestyle and died in Ireland at the age of 34. Cribb finally retired in 1822 opening a successful tavern called The Union Arms. He lived until the age of 68. British fight fans always loved Cribb for exemplifying their favorite qualities in a boxer: "Pluck and Bottom." Pluck meaning courage and Bottom meaning stamina.
Title: Part Two
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 23, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
Boxing Comes to America

The first official boxing match in America took place in New York City in 1816. Dutchman Jacob Hyer defeated Tom Beasley in the only match that either of them fought. Thirty-three years later, Jacob's son, Tom Hyer, won the first American Championship when he defeated small-time criminal, James Ambrose, who fought as "Yankee Sullivan."

In 1838, Broughton's Rules for prize fighting were superseded by the London Prize Ring Rules. The structure of the match remained essentially the same, but the fighting area was to be surrounded with rope instead of a wooden rail, and, preferably, the bout would be contended outside on turf. There was also an adjunct rule about not using the ropes to your advantage. The biggest change brought about by the adaptation of the London Prize Ring Rules was the prohibition of what had formerly been common techniques. Head butting, hair pulling, eye gouging, and neck throttling, which included choking, head locking and neck cranking, were expressly forbidden. The earlier prohibition against leg contact was extended to knee strikes. Until then, the knee strike to the body had been a common technique known as gut-kneeing. The London Prize Ring Rules also forbade throwing yourself to the ground in order to end the round and get yourself half minute of rest. It was a rule that some of the better technical boxers learned to circumvent.

Bare-knuckle pugilism may have reached its height as an art form under the London Prize Ring Rules. Due to the limitation of brawling techniques, more boxers began to learn the Scientific Style that was developed by Daniel Mendoza. Many fighters began to add the art of Cornish Wrestling to the Mendoza Scientific Style. This style of wrestling perfectly adapted to the new rules of boxing. It developed through centuries of competition with its rival of English Westlands Wrestling, the Devonshire Style.

Traditionally the Devon men were known as the "kickers and trippers," while the Cornish men were known for their "hugging and heaving." Techniques of Cornish Wrestling consisted mostly of upper body throwing techniques, because it was a standing style in which a throw constituted a win. All the old Celtic styles of wrestling ended in this fashion, because the Celts considered ground grappling to be unmanly. Bare-knuckle Boxers favored a type of spring hip throw, in which they followed their opponent down, landing their full weight on his abdomen. This technique was called a "Cross Buttock." Another favorite technique under the London Prize Ring Rules was to "Seize and Fib," grabbing and pulling in your opponent with one hand while delivering short punches with the other hand.

The spinning backfist was also a common technique and was called the "Pivot Punch." When a bare-knuckle fighter added the sweeps and low kicks of Devonshire Wrestling to his arsenal he was in command of a practical fighting system. This mixture of striking and grappling brought boxing to its highest level as a complete martial art.

The Famous Fight of 1860

The most outstanding fight ever to be contested under the London Prize Ring Rules took place in 1860. It was the First World Boxing Championship and was between the English Champion, Tom Sayers, and the American Champion, John Carmel Heenan. This fight and the events surrounding it were a drama worthy of a Pulitzer Prize winning novel and an Academy Award winning motion picture. It was a story of courageous warriors, loyal managers, treacherous wives, adoring fans, and outraged police.

Tom Sayers was a 5 foot 8 inch tall bricklayer from Brighton, England who fought the early part of his career as a 140 pound middleweight. As a 19-year-old novice prize fighter he fell in love with an attractive 21 year old divorcee, named Sarah Powell. She would be the love and the bane of the rest of his life. In their second year together, she had their first child, Young Sarah. Young Tom was born 3 years later. Tommy loved his "little nippers" more than life itself and would do anything for the kids.

In 1853, Tommy got his shot at the British Middleweight Title, which was held by Nat Langham. Langham was a lanky 37-year-old veteran, known as "Old Clever Nat." He was a master of the left jab to the eyes and then slipping under his opponent, and looking like he had been thrown whenever he needed a rest. He was at his best when the grass was wet, as it was when he met Sayers. The 25-year-old Sayers was the stronger of the two and won all the early and middle rounds, but Langham was slowly working on the younger man's eyes. In the 48th round Tom's eyes were so swollen that his handlers had to cut the bruise areas to allow him to see. Langham was almost completely exhausted, but continued throwing every punch at Tommy's eyes. When Tom rushed Old Nat at the beginning of the 60th round, he was met by a left jab to each eye and a wild hook to the ear, which Langham threw with such force, that both men went down.

Tom waved off the 30 second rest and charged right back at Langllam, who caught him coming in with a left-right combination to Tommy's battered eyes. Sayers spun and groped blindly towards his corner ending the match. It had lasted 61 rounds, averaging 90 seconds each. Sayers learned a lot about boxing techniques in that match, but he couldn't ever get Langham into a rematch. Old Nat retired and opened a bar. Seven years later, he would sell tickets to the Sayers versus Heenan match at his bar. The following year found Tom so broke that he had to tour the countryside in search of matches.

While Torn was out of town, Sarah took up with Alfred Aldridge, a young handsome gambler, who was a member of Tommy's entourage. When Tom returned from a rather unsuccessful tour, Sarah announced to him that she was seeing Aldridge and would continue to do so. If Tommy gave her any trouble about it then she would explain to the kids that they were born illegitimately because Tom married Sarah after their birth. Tom had married her as soon as her first husband died, but he didn't want his children stigmatized in Victorian England so he agreed to Sarah's demands. He moved in with his sister and continued to spend time with Sarah and the children whenever it struck Sarah's fancy. Matters were really complicated when Sarah had three children by Aldridge while married to Tom, making them Tom's only legal heirs.

In 1855 Sayers was completely broke, so he accepted a match with heavyweight contender Harry Poulson, who weighed over 200 pounds. Tom went up to 152 pounds for the bout. Sayers first slowly, but methodically closed the big man's eyes, then knocked him so unconscious that Poulson couldn't be revived within the mandatory 30 seconds. This fight brought Tom to the attention of his new manager and soon to be close friend, John Gideon. It also started his lucrative heavyweight career and Sarah was right there to spend the money

Two years later, Tom Sayers won the British Heavyweight Title from William "The Tipton Slasher" Perry, in a bout which the champ's corner tossed in the sponge, at the one hour and 45 minute mark. By this time, Gideon was regularly advising Tom to divorce Sarah. but Tom steadfastly refused. He claimed that it was for his nippers' sake, but he obviously still had strong feelings for Sarah.
Meanwhile, Back in the States...

Meanwhile, on the other side of the pond, John C. Heenan had become Heavyweight Champion of the Americas by default and without winning a major match. This 6 foot 1 inch, 200 pound, muscular, handsome young Irishman, was born in upstate New York. but gained his reputation as a fighter while working for a steamship building company in Benicia, California. A number of successful street fights led to Heenan's best friend, Jim Cusick, settling up a number of pick up bouts for Heenan. Cusick was a nervous little man who talked incessantly and always wore a bow tie. He was also a genius manager and totally dedicated to Heenan. Cusick parleyed mere pick up fights into a chance for John to fight for the American Heavyweight Title, against title claimant, "Old Smoke." John Morrissey.

The 23-year-old Heenan met the 26-year-old Morrissey on October 19, 1857 in Canada just across the border from Buffalo, NY. The steamboat carrying the fighters and crowd left Buffalo at 8:00 AM, but spent all day avoiding police boats and the fighters didn't come to scratch until almost midnight. Heenan overpowered the 5 foot 10 inch tall, 180 pound Morrissey in the first round and may have knocked him out, except for a missed punch that hit a rig post, hurting Heenan's hand. Heenan still won all the early rounds, but when an old leg abscess reopened and began to weaken the Benicia Boy, Old Smoke got a second wind and began to pummel the weakening youngster. In the 11th round, both men had to be led to the scratch line, where Heenan swung wildly, missed, fell down and passed out, giving Morrissey the match.

Morrisey promptly retired from boxing and went on to become a successful gambler and New York politician. When he refused to give Heenan a rematch, the Benicia Boy was declared the American Champion. This was a title which Cusick would use to set up the match with Tom Sayers.

It took a year and a half to get the trans-Atlantic match set up during which Jim and John stayed in New York. While visiting a newspaper office, Heenan met a very cute, short, curvaceous little actress from New Orleans, named Adah Isaacs Menken and he promptly fell in love. Adah had that effect on men. She was sort of a cross between Marilyn Monroe and Betty Boop and men seemed to do what she wanted. Adah and the "Boy" were seen everywhere together right until he left for training in England. Just before he left, they announced that they had secretly married. When John was gone, Adah billed herself as Mrs. John C. Heenan, making a big name for herself on the New York Stage. In her most famous and oft repeated role, she donned flesh colored silk tights and played a naked, captured princess. Her fame spread far and wide as "The Great Naked Lady of the Stage." It finally spread too far and Mr. Menken appeared and explained to the press that Adah had somehow forgotten to divorce him.

When John Morrisey departed for England to help Tom Sayers train for a match against Morrisey's old nemesis, he was only too happy to bring the news of Adah's bigamy. Heenan did not however come apart at the news. He simply announced that he and Adah had never really, legally married and began to train harder than ever. Jim Cusick, who hated Adah and was detested by her in turn, was very happy at this outcome.

Heenan finally met Tom Sayers on the morning of April 17, 1860. Sayers threw his hat into the ring at 7:20 AM and Heenan quickly followed him into the ring. It was a fine morning, in that field in Farnborough, and Tom remarked to the boy, "How are you M'boy? Fine morning, this." John replied, "Yes, we've got a beautiful morning for it." To which Tom answered, "Yes, if a man can't fight on such a day as this, he can't fight at all!"

When the boys toed the scratch at 7:29, it was noted that Tom's face was stained walnut brown by the pickling solution that he used to toughen his skin. Heenan was fair skinned but much larger. The first five minutes was a warm up dance, with lots of movement and no punches actually landed. Just as they worked their way into Heenan's corner, they started to exchange punches. When they backed out of the corner, Heenan's nose was bleeding, causing money to exchange hands on the "first blood" bets. When the Boy noticed the blood, he charged forward and effortlessly tossed the smaller man to the turf, ending the first round.
Title: Part Three
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 23, 2007, 10:53:58 AM

Sayers began the second round by slipping, sliding, jabbing, and generally confusing the big youngster, until a big, wide Heenan left hook dazed him, allowing the Boy to wrestle him down and land his full weight on Tommy's ribs. For the next four rounds, Tommy took a beating, being countered and knocked down in each of them. He was even knocked senseless in the fourth, but was revived by his seconds. Sayers knew that Heenan's hands were taking damage from the heavy head punching.

The seventh and eighth rounds were legendary, lasting thirteen and twenty minutes, respectively. They are even more amazing in retrospect, knowing that Tom's right arm began to swell at the end of the sixth round, heralding an injury that would later prove to be a broken arm.

Tom Sayers got his second wind and began to time the Boy with lighting left hand counter punches, that cut Heenan's right cheek and closed his right eye in the seventh. The round still ended with Heenan knocking Sayers off balance and down, but Sayers had scored the damage. Both men's mouths were bloodied in the eighth, with the right side of Heenan's face getting worse and Sayers' right arm swelling and stiffening. The round ended with Sayers still going down.

Local police arrive during the ninth round, but there weren't enough of them to do anything, so they just watched. Round after round Sayers punched Heenan's face with his lightning left and was then thrown or knocked down. His right arm is a mess, but Heenan's face looked worse. Round 21 began at 8:38 AM, the beginning of the 2nd hour of unarmed combat. In the 26th round, Sayers left jab finally found the mark, of Heenan's left eye. The round still ended with Sayers going down from a Heenan wild hook. As the fight progressed it became a continual sequence of damage to Heenan's face followed by Sayers being knocked or thrown to the turf.

The police reinforcements finally arrived and tried to stop the fight. The fighters finished several more rounds, while the police fought their way through the crowd and past the "Ring Bullies," which was the current term for boxing match security guards. In the 36th round the police finally reached the ring and distracted the referee, just as an almost blind Heenan tried to strangle Sayers with a ring rope. One of Sayers' seconds cut the rope and the ring came apart in the ensuing riot. However, a group of 30 or so hard core betters threw their arms around each other, and made a shoulder to shoulder ring, allowing the riot to swirl around them.

The boys fought six more rounds, before referee Dowling broke into the ring of betters and declared the fight over. At which point everyone broke and ran for the train. Both of the combatants had to be assisted to the train. The bout had lasted for 2 hours and 20 minutes, dissected into 42 rounds.

Later the match was declared a draw and each fighter was presented with a silver belt. After a lengthy healing period, Sayers and Heenan toured Britain together reenacting their famous bout. During this trip they became fast friends. Tom's health began to fade and he never fought again. John returned to the States to make up with Adah, but when she spurned him, he returned to England to wait out the Civil War. When he lost to the new English Champion, Tom King, Tom Sayers was a second for Heenan. Sayers was obviously sick at the time. Two years later, in 1865, Tom quietly died of diabetes at his sister's house. Sarah got all of his money and Gideon set up trust funds for Young Tom and Young Sarah.

John Heenan returned to America and became successful in Tammany Hall politics, in New York City. Unfortunately, he was connected to Boss Tweed and when the Boss went down in 1871 John lost everything. By 1873, he was in bad health and was trying to make a living as a sparring partner. His ever present friend and manager suggested that they return to their roots. SO, they boarded a train for the sunny skies of California. However, at the station in Green River, Wyoming, Heenan died in the arms of his friend, Jim Cusick. Heenan was 38 years old, a year younger than Tom Sayers was at his passing, 8 years earlier.

New Rules for Boxing, John L. Sullivan

In 1867, famous English amateur sportsman and athletics organizer, John Graham Chambers wrote a new set of rules to govern gloved, amateur boxing contests and exhibitions. Chambers had been a much heralded oarsman for Cambridge, and was the organizer of the Amateur Athletic Club, and a key figure in the beginnings of England's first Amateur Athletic Association. Besides mandating the use of gloves, his rules created the first three minute timed round, forbade all types of grappling, and invented the 10 second long unassisted knockout. The limited number of timed rounds created the first need for judges' decisions.

When Chambers got his old college buddy, John Sholto Douglas, the Eighth Marquess of Queensberry, to sponsor his rules, they became known as the Queensberry Rules. It would be almost two decades before these rules would begin to influence the ranks of the professional prize ring

The late years of the 1870's saw the rise of the last of the great bareknuckle fighters, "The Boston Strong Boy," John L. Sullivan, himself. His reputation began in his teens, when he would walk into various Boston taverns, thump loudly on the bar and announce, "I'm John L. Sullivan, himself, and I can lick any man in the house!" It was a boast that he never failed to back up. At 5 feet 10 inches tall and 190 pounds, the young Irishman was a natural power puncher. From the beginning of his career, he would fight by either the London or Queensberry rules. He always favored the gloves, which protected his hands while throwing multiple power punches at the large bones of an opponent's jaw and temples.

Sullivan's first big match took place on a barge in the Hudson River in New York, in 1881. It was a bare-knuckle affair, and when the Boston Strong Boy knocked "the Bulls Head Terror," John Flood, down eight times and stopped him in the ninth round, he set up a match with Paddy Ryan, the American Champion. They met in Mississippi City on Feb.7th of thc following year. It was a one-sided match, with Sullivan knocking Ryan senseless, with a right to the jaw in the ninth. This fight made Sullivan the Bare-Knuckle Champion of American and a national hero who most people considered to be unbeatable. In January of 1885, Sullivan stopped Ryan in the first round of their rematch and in August of the same year he stopped Dominick McCaffery, in the sixth round, with gloves on, to win the new Queensberry Rules World Heavyweight Boxing Championship.

The following year, Sullivan fought a third bareknuckle match with Ryan and stopped him in the third round. In 1889. Sullivan met Jake Kilrain for the Bare-Knuckle Championship of the World. Kilrain had recently defeated the current English Champion and was already called the World Champion by a handful of publications. When Sullivan won a grueling 75 round contest, he became the undisputed World Heavyweight Boxing Champion.

The Sullivan-Kilrain fight became the last of the Bare-Knuckle Championship Matches and John L. Sullivan the last of the Bare-Knuckle Champions. When the Great John L. decided to defend his overall title by the Queensbury Rules in 1892 it was the end of bare-knuckle boxing. When he was stopped in the 21st round of that match by Gentleman Jim Corbett there was no turning back. The San Francisco bank clerk was strictly a gloved fighter and after him the sport never looked back.

The Queensbury Rules were always presented as safer than bareknuckle boxing, but, in reality, they became the standard of the sport because they created a faster paced and more exciting sport for the new industrial age. The timed round with a mandatory minute rest kept the fighters going at a quicker pace as well as the ten second, unassisted knock-out which presented the possibility of an abrupt and exciting stoppage at any moment! The absence of grappling stopped a lot of bone injuries, and the padded gloves produced less facial blood, however, the same protection for the hands allowed for more power head punches with less damage to the hands leading to increased brain trauma. In the long run, the sport was probably not more or less safe, but, rather, faster, more exciting, and more saleable to the pubic. This exciting new sport was also much less of a complete martial art than it had been in the days of the London Prize Ring and the warriors of the Sweet Science of Bare-Knuckle Pugilism.

---------------------------------
About Frank Allen:
Frank Allen is the Chief Instructor and Director of the Wu-Tang Physical Culture Association which he founded in 1979. He has been the student of Taoist Master B.K. Frantzis since 1976. Allen was the student of former amateur boxing champion, Verne "Bull Dog" Williams from 1984-2000, and was a writer/reseacher for the "Bull Dog Williams Boxing Interview Series." He is a freelance writer who lives in New York City and can be reached by e-mail at : baguarat@aol.com.
 
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=473
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: maija on November 23, 2007, 02:56:10 PM
Frank Allen has a great workout space on the Lower East Side. I have trained with him on occasion and his "Fighting For Health" class is a blast.
A few years back when I was at class, Verne "The Bulldog" Williams was there watching and giving tips on boxing which was very cool. Frank is a mine of information about all kinds of martial arts, history and meditation aswell as being a great story teller. Well recommended if you are in NYC.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: C-Kumu Dog on November 23, 2007, 06:15:21 PM
Wow, that was great!!

Thanks for sharing the article.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on November 29, 2007, 01:50:57 PM
On the "Tippy-tappy drills-- threat or menace?" thread Sun Helmet brought up the following point:

Quote
The recent HBO series 24/7 focused on the upcoming Hatton/Mayweather boxing match had a humorous segment when Ricky Hatton was parodying Mayweather's "tippy tappy" focus mitt training. Hatton just didn't think it was very practical because the opponent/mitt holder was standing squared up to Mayweather. However, as many here know - working in that range using "hubad" like training works on many other things besides power, it is useful as long as it isn't the ONLY thing you do. For example, how is the reactionary response time honed when Mayweather is suddenly faced with an opponent who must move to get into position and has a wider striking arc?

Whether or not one likes Mayweather's personality or even if he loses to Hatton - one can't deny those drill's effectiveness for a fighter like Mayweather who also uses simultaneous block/strikes ala lots of Silat/FMA systems. So far he's won numerous titles and remained undefeated.

I like Hatton myself just because of his tenacity - he reminds me of Pacquaio, and this may be a very exciting bout between a clash of styles.

What bothers me about the way that everyone holds for Mayweather (mainly his uncle) is that I think the pads should be used for power as well.  It seems that the way they hold usually has the pad holder meeting the punch half way rather than allowing the punch to come to the target.  This does not allow the punch to fully extend and as such, does not allow the puncher to execute with proper form and technique to create power.  This is not to say that this way of pad holding does not have its place, I just think that when this is the only way a pad holder holds for a fighte (which it seems to be from the footage of FM)r, that it can aid in the development of bad habits (less power, not developing range, etc.)

Woof!

Gruhn
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 06, 2007, 08:11:47 PM

What bothers me about the way that everyone holds for Mayweather (mainly his uncle) is that I think the pads should be used for power as well.  It seems that the way they hold usually has the pad holder meeting the punch half way rather than allowing the punch to come to the target.  This does not allow the punch to fully extend and as such, does not allow the puncher to execute with proper form and technique to create power.  This is not to say that this way of pad holding does not have its place, I just think that when this is the only way a pad holder holds for a fighte (which it seems to be from the footage of FM)r, that it can aid in the development of bad habits (less power, not developing range, etc.)

Woof!

Gruhn

Most boxing gyms I've been to the mitt holders attack the punchers to develop timing, they don't allow the mitts to extend the fighter's arms causing them to overreach - because they want the fighter to catch the opponent during movement.

They have so many other tools to use for power work, and a guy holding the mitts for a world class boxer is really asking for their hands to be damaged if they work power with them for a long amount of time. Just look at Hatton's trainer's index finger.

When I was training at a boxing gym as a teen, a guy came to visit that the other old guys knew - he was one of Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini's trainers. He showed us his fingers which were crushed from such mitt power drills. He especially didn't like the old style mitts where at a certain angle a punch just crushes one finger joint into the other.

I'm positive Mayweather is doing some power work, but we also have to consider that he did state he's having hand issues in one episode and they always have  the HBO cams off at a certain stage in his workout.

I'd like to see what Hatton does to fine tune his skills beyond what HBO has shown so far as well. I like that beam he jumps back and forth on.

--Rafael--
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Maxx on December 06, 2007, 09:46:53 PM
Just saw Yuri Foreman totally out box Andrey Tsurakan tonight on Vs. It was a great fight. Yuri foreman is a top notch boxer.
Title: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 09, 2007, 06:59:01 PM
Different tune after the fight, it seems those "tippy tappy" drills have a significant purpose when the fighter utilizes them correctly:

"I felt alright tonight, really big and strong but I left myself open. He's better inside than I thought, with all the elbows and shoulders and forearms he used," said Hatton after the fight. "I didn't quite stick to my game-plan. He's not the biggest welterweight I've fought but he was very strong. I don't think he was the hardest puncher tonight but he was a lot more clever than I expected. I'll be back, don't worry." Ricky Hatton, Post Fight

Here's the clip where Hatton mocks the "tippy tappy" mitt drills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY)

Look at :13 seconds into the clip.

Mayweather won by KO in round ten.
Title: WSJ: Mayorga
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 25, 2008, 11:20:23 PM
At the age of 35, Ricardo "El Matador" Mayorga is making the most unlikely comeback in boxing. But don't tell the Surgeon General. He's doing it while smoking a pack a day.

In one of the planet's most physically demanding sports, Mr. Mayorga has managed to win a world championship and stay in the top ranks for a decade. Tomorrow night, he's scheduled to fight former world champion Shane Mosley in a bout that could rekindle his title hopes or send him into retirement. But the most remarkable thing about this boxer from Nicaragua is that he has risen to the top of his sport while sucking down enough cigarette smoke to kill a rhinoceros. He has little interest in nutrition or scientific training. He's never been hooked up to a Vo2 Max machine and he turns down the vitamin B12 shots offered by his coach, Rigoberto Garibaldi. "No scientist would be able to figure out what makes him work," says Mr. Garibaldi.

In a sports world dominated by athletes obsessed with calibrating their bodies to a precise degree, Mr. Mayorga has spent his entire career doing the opposite -- pumping himself full of stuff that should be slowing him down. While training in Florida for tomorrow's fight at the Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif., Mr. Mayorga woke up at dawn every morning and ran three miles at speeds that, according to his trainer, would make any other boxer pass out -- let alone one who smoked. "It doesn't affect him at all," Mr. Garibaldi says.

After lunch, Mr. Mayorga would drive to a small gym at an office park in the Miami suburb of Coconut Creek to work on shadowboxing, punching mitts and working the heavy bag. In the late afternoons, he sometimes added another workout of weights or more running. At the end of the day, he's so tired he can barely move. But this grueling ritual is frequently punctuated by an astonishing sight: Mr. Mayorga, still dressed in his sweaty workout clothes, lighting up a cigarette.

WSJ's Reed Albergotti visits "El Matador." (Sept. 26)

After one grueling workout last month in Florida, he toweled off and walked outside the gym. His coach handed him some fresh fruit to eat for recovery and an assistant produced a lighter. Soon Mr. Mayorga was taking a deep drag from a Marlboro, looking relieved and relaxed. "I've been smoking since I was 13," he said. "It seems to be working for me, so why stop?"

Mr. Mayorga's assistant, Anthony Gonzalez, says that when the boxer isn't training, he smokes as many as three packs, or 60 cigarettes, a day.

High-level trainers say that despite what you might think, an occasional cigarette is relatively normal for pro athletes, especially in Europe, where athletes smoke the way NFL linemen might sneak Big Macs into training camp. French soccer superstar Zinedine Zidane was photographed sneaking a cigarette during the 2006 World Cup. One of the greatest cyclists of all time, Belgian Eddy Merckx, smoked occasionally. And a 2003 survey showed about 10% of Major League Baseball players admitted using cigarettes.

Mark Verstegen, the founder of the Arizona-based sports-training facility Athletes Performance, says there is no question that smoking hurts athletic performance. When some of the elite athletes he's worked with have quit smoking, he says, they've seen immediate gains in physiological markers like oxygen uptake, muscle fatigue and overall speed. The act of smoking, he says, "mucks up the whole system."
[Ricardo Mayorga] John Loomis for The Wall Street Journal

Ricardo Mayorga

Several studies performed on athletes back up these observations. In 1985, researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles ran nine male subjects to the point of exhaustion -- some after smoking three cigarettes and some without smoking at all. They found the smokers were less able to get oxygen to their muscles and had higher heart rates. A study concluded last year at Denmark's Copenhagen Muscle Research Center found that muscle protein synthesis, which is essential for athletes, was substantially lower in a group of smokers than a group of nonsmokers.

Terry Conway, a public-health researcher at San Diego State University, says that while tobacco smoke does not do elite athletes any favors, it may not slow them down enough to make a big difference. "They can tolerate assaults to their body because they are genetically gifted," she says.

Mr. Mayorga says his first taste of boxing came as a boy on the streets of Managua. As a junior boxer, he won Nicaragua's national championship and a Central American Golden Gloves title before turning pro in 1993. His heyday in the ring came in 2002 and 2003 when he won three welterweight title matches -- beating the top-ranked and heavily favored Andrew Lewis by technical knockout and winning both the WBA and WBC welterweight titles by beating reigning-champion Vernon Forrest twice. He fell just short of winning the undisputed welterweight title in 2003, but collected the super welterweight crown in 2005.

The low point of Mr. Mayorga's career came in 2006 when Oscar De La Hoya pummeled him so badly the official stopped the fight in the sixth round. Though he never officially retired, he didn't fight again for almost two years.

As he ascended in boxing, Mr. Mayorga says he originally tried to hide his smoking habit for fear that promoters would scold him. After beating Mr. Lewis in 2002, Mr. Mayorga was sitting in the training room with his coach and smoking a cigarette when Alan Hopper, a publicist for promoter Don King, walked in. His coach frantically grabbed the cigarette and attempted to put it out, but instead of lecturing the fighter, Mr. Hopper told him to light up another one and found him a bottle of beer to take to the press conference. When Mr. Mayorga started taking questions from the media while drinking and smoking, an image was born.

Mr. Mayorga's punching power and his unrestrained bravado quickly made him a cult figure in boxing. Earlier in his career, his signature move was to allow his opponent to take a free punch at his head. He once offered an opponent a job sweeping his floors and threatened to send another opponent to heaven to meet his deceased mother. In 2003, he posed on the cover of the boxing magazine The Ring in his gloves and trunks with a cigarette dangling from his lips.

Mr. Mayorga's current comeback began in November when he upset Fernando Vargas in 12 rounds, bringing his career record to 28-6-1 and earning him a fight with Mr. Mosley, 37, who is also looking to rekindle his title hopes. Mr. Mosley, 44-5, is best known for giving Mr. De La Hoya two of his five career losses. At press time, he was the clear favorite. The fight will be televised on HBO.

When asked if he would ever smoke, Mr. Mosley laughed and said no. He has been training at his high-altitude home in Big Bear, Calif., running up and down hills, lifting weights and carefully monitoring his diet. He said he even makes his mother go outside when she smokes. Mr. Mayorga says training at altitude won't help his opponent in the ring. "He can go to the North Pole or the Amazon, the result's going to be the same. I'm going to win the fight."

At the prefight press conference in Los Angeles, Mr. Mayorga, dressed in a suit, lit a cigarette and even offered one to Mr. Mosley. "He can smoke a cigarette when he loses," Mr. Mosley says. "I'm going to destroy him in five rounds or less."
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Ronin on September 26, 2008, 08:04:40 AM
Different tune after the fight, it seems those "tippy tappy" drills have a significant purpose when the fighter utilizes them correctly:

"I felt alright tonight, really big and strong but I left myself open. He's better inside than I thought, with all the elbows and shoulders and forearms he used," said Hatton after the fight. "I didn't quite stick to my game-plan. He's not the biggest welterweight I've fought but he was very strong. I don't think he was the hardest puncher tonight but he was a lot more clever than I expected. I'll be back, don't worry." Ricky Hatton, Post Fight

Here's the clip where Hatton mocks the "tippy tappy" mitt drills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QevWKNM9JWY)

Look at :13 seconds into the clip.

Mayweather won by KO in round ten.


Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on November 22, 2008, 07:31:31 PM
Some wonderful examples of Kali Tudo's Triggonomics tonight by Kirkland on HBO right now.  Kirkland is also doing an awesome job using angles and head movement. 

I'm looking forward to Hatton!
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 23, 2008, 04:36:26 PM
Just getting back from a weekend with my son.  What happened?
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Sun_Helmet on November 25, 2008, 12:25:01 PM

Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.




Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Ronin on November 26, 2008, 05:13:16 AM

Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.






I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: matinik on November 27, 2008, 09:50:35 PM
checked out HBO's 24/7 de la hoya/pacquiao fight promo recently and in one episode entitled "stick training", it had
manny being lightly tapped quickly all over the  abs and arms with a yantok (looks like  hardwood), with
manny saying "it's mental training". it looks similar to some chinese system hard chi gong regimen.
hope he's using some dit da jow afterwards :-D.
the fight it self should be interesting too. i enjoyed seeing oscar in his heyday, but manny might be
too fast and too young for him now. any thoughts?

matinik
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Guard Dog on November 28, 2008, 06:55:37 AM

Some fighters are great IN SPITE of what they do, not because of it.


That's true, but this wasn't the case.

Note that Hatton who ridiculed Mayweather's training, swallowed his pride enough to hire Mayweather senior as his trainer.
He won his recent fight by totally dominating his opponent. Better body positioning, better reactions inside. He even stated how some of his old habits were still exposing him to punches.

Mayweather senior hasn't coached or cornered Jr. for a decent number of years.  From what I gather father and son have never been further apart.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: peregrine on December 06, 2008, 09:09:10 PM
Dela Hoya / Pacquiao wow...what a shut out.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 06, 2008, 09:49:52 PM
So, who won?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: matinik on December 06, 2008, 11:02:51 PM
manny won by tko! oscar threw in the towel on the eight!
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on December 07, 2008, 07:56:02 AM
What a fight.  Manny ate him up all night with the false lead jab.  Kept to the outside and Oscar didn't know what to do.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: bjung on December 07, 2008, 06:40:24 PM
wow. I had Oscar going into the fight. Pac was great. good movement, he controlled the range really well.
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 14, 2008, 07:53:50 AM
Mayweather senior hasn't coached or cornered Jr. for a decent number of years.  From what I gather father and son have never been further apart.

That was supposedly over a personal issue though, not a stylistic or training one.




Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 14, 2008, 08:02:41 AM

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.


You have to consider that this was still a TV show made to entertain and entice viewers to watch the fight.
I doubt that Mayweather ONLY trains one way with the mitts.

What Hatton and others seemed to fixate on is a fragment of his mitt training, which looked like a drill to enhance a certain portion of quick twitch attributes.
If you put it in context, that's like watching one clip of an FMA guy doing hubad and saying that drill has no use.
It only has no use if the person drilling and instructing has no purpose but to do the patterns and does not complement it with power or other training that applies to the whole picture.

I mean, do we really all believe that Mayweather only does one kind of mitt work drill?
That's the tv producers doing their thing, editing it to create  it a style over substance show.



Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 14, 2008, 08:17:10 AM
De La Hoya must have wondered why his new found coaches were just now informing him that Manny was much faster between round four and five.
They didn't have an answer to the style of Manny, who was basically doing a half step stutter to ease into range then shooting the left between the gloves, posting his right forearm on Oscar when he tried to pivot back into range and zoning out to reset the same sequence.

Also, thought it was interesting that De La Hoya predicted he would take Manny's will away from him and the bright lights and chaos of a big fight in Vegas would overwhelm the Filipino fighter. ( Roy Jones said the same thing - always a bad sign when the aging fighter uses this line.)

It is obvious Oscar has never been to Manila or seen the chaos of a Filipino market... Las Vegas has less bells and whistles than a single jeepney there. :)

Hatton will have a bigger problem unless he hurts Manny early.


Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: maija on December 15, 2008, 08:50:05 AM
Ronin said:
[/quote]

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: peregrine on December 15, 2008, 05:47:52 PM
Ronin said:

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
[/quote]

I can see tip tappy drills being an integral part in a fighters regime. They can be correctly used as a piece of an entire training system. Unfortuantely some people and systems trake thm as a stand alone.
Title: Pacquiao
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 20, 2008, 05:58:55 AM
The Filipino whose fists stop wars
"Don't tell God you have a big problem. Tell your problem you have a big God,” champ tells fans.
The boxing world is in shock after the legendary Mexican Oscar de la Hoya was sent into retirement by Filipino Manny Pacquiao on December 6 in Las Vegas.
Manny Pacquiao is undoubtedly the Philippines’ most popular sports icon. He’s a simple guy of extraordinary grit. Glorious in his bouts, he remains humble with his feet firmly planted on the ground. In his most recent match, which kept millions of Filipinos all over the world glued to their radios or TV screens, he emerged as the winner against the much touted “golden boy” Oscar de la Joya in an eight-round TKO decision.

The good-natured Pacquiao shows his mettle even inside the ring. Recah Trinidad, a Philippine Daily Inquirer (PDI) columnist, wrote: “How Pacquiao lent boxing a warm human touch was no coincidence. In fact, Pacquiao would later bare that he often took pity on the helpless De La Hoya. After cornering and shaking up De La Hoya, Pacquiao would often stall in his offensive. Of course, this was not out of a sudden attack of compassion and humility.”

Pacquiao’s matches are surely a diversion to many people, not just Filipinos. His bouts relieve the stress of a faltering economy and provide national entertainment on a humdrum weekend. They have even led to truces among warring camps and a drop in crime rate, even as rebels and thieves are kept off the streets to catch a glimpse of his exciting matches. Apparently Eid Kabalu, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front civil-military affairs chief, has been known to say, “If Manny fights every day, guns will always be silent.”

The 29-year-old Pacquiao is an interesting character. In the tough world of boxing, you see this man publicly acknowledging that among his weapons are absolute faith in God and prayer. He hangs a rosary around his neck just before a match, and he’s not shy about it. As soon as he steps into the boxing ring, he kneels in deep prayer in one corner. Meanwhile, thousands of kilometers away in General Santos City, he’s supported by a pious mother who spends hours praying before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Santo Nino (Holy Child Jesus) for the success of her son. After each victorious bout, an assistant immediately hops into the ring to hang once more the same holy rosary around Manny’s neck.

Returning to the Philippines after his victorious dream match, he went to the popular Black Nazarene Church in Manila. In a blog posted by Izah Morales in the PDI, she recalled: “After priest gave his final blessings, Pacquiao was asked to give a message to the people. During his message, Pacquiao thanked the people and attributed his success to God. He talked about the criticisms he got from some sportswriters before his bout with Oscar de la Hoya. But he said he did not lose hope as he kept his faith in God.

“Pacquiao told the crowd, ‘Don't tell God that [you] have a big problem. ut tell your problem [that you] have a big God.’”

It said that a boxer’s motto is “It’s better to give than to receive.” But Pacquaio goes beyond that quip. It was reported that before his “dream match” with de la Joya, he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for tickets to be distributed among his friends and supporters. For him, it was a way of giving back. Some labeled it as superstition. But Pacquiao has that penchant for sharing his blessings with others. At the end of his match he was quoted saying, “I’m just happy that I made a lot of people happy.”

Pacquiao was tempted to venture into politics last year when he ran for a seat in Congress. He was soundly defeated, much to the delight of his fans, who wanted him to stay in the ring.

A recent PDI editorial warned Pacquiao against pursuing further political ambitions: “Pacquiao's achievements have been fully his own, as far as boxing is concerned. His becoming a sports hero has led not only to riches, but also has won him the incomparable affections of an entire nation. That success and that affection are his because of how he unites a nation otherwise divided and discouraged by politics.

“No one can doubt that Pacquiao is looking for a career that will not just give meaning to his life after boxing, but which will also allow him to help others as so many have helped him rise from rags to riches through sports. The question is not whether he can or should try to be a force for public good, but whether the public good is served by his entering politics.

“His dogged determination, his dedication to his sport, his discipline and his ability to improve himself, all the while maintaining a sunny disposition and picking no quarrels with people outside the boxing ring, suggest to us that the greatest good for the greatest number lies in Pacquiao staying out of the political arena. He is a political force by sheer force of being who he is-the man who unites-and staying that way.”

The good-tempered, level-headed Pacquiao is no Mike Tyson. He is unlikely to end up like many other boxers: broke, cheated, disgraced or punch-drunk. But he should stay out of politics. The punches thrown in political shadow boxing are more vicious than any he will ever face in the ring.

Zen Udani is Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Macau.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 20, 2008, 03:29:04 PM
 DIAZ Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs5bUcrZhBk)

This is the HBO interview with Diaz after the fight. I like the comment around the 1:15 mark.
"I thought he had a knife with though - I thought he had a blade."

I like his honesty and acceptance in defeat.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Guard Dog on December 20, 2008, 04:29:37 PM
It's interesting because the "style" is a well developed game plan which is spelled out in the DBMA Kali Tudo set.  I'm a huge fan of this material as it has led many of my fighters to victories over very formidable opponents.  Triggonomics (outside footwork) is the name of the game:

(http://i34.tinypic.com/294ouo1.gif)
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2cpyjqt.gif)
(http://i34.tinypic.com/1zdw4di.gif)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/ad2nhf.gif)
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2ltg274.gif)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2ymd84o.gif)
(http://i36.tinypic.com/33a5ox1.gif)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpUUMugmZ4s[/youtube]

(from another forum)
Sugar Ray eats this Cuban guy alive for the 1976 Gold Medal.

1.)Always stays outside the Cuban's lead. Works his jab and jab-hook combos. Parry's the jab and puts a cross down the middle.

2.) When he moves right, He never moves into the cross, always laterally with his right hand up.

3.) His footwork is amazing. He does a great little move that the Cuban never catches. He takes one step to his right and then rolls left, getting the Cuban to "bite" on the right step and throw the left cross. Classic. A blueprint for righties everywhere.
Title: Re: Hatton vs. Mayweather
Post by: Ronin on December 22, 2008, 05:43:04 AM
Ronin said:

I have never and will never be, a fan of "tippy-tappy" pad work.
Regardless of who does it and how great a fighter they may be.
Fact is Mayweather is a freak, he would probably be just as good a boxer if he did pad work on one leg while wearing garters.

[/quote]

Why are you against "Tippy-tappy drills" for boxing?
Why do you think Mayweather spends/wastes time on them?
[/quote]


I am a big believer in specificity and also a believer in "maximum damage with minimal effort", I don't think those drills fall into those categories.
I like how Tyson did his mitts.
Title: Re: Pacquiao
Post by: Ronin on December 22, 2008, 05:46:44 AM
The Filipino whose fists stop wars
"Don't tell God you have a big problem. Tell your problem you have a big God,” champ tells fans.
The boxing world is in shock after the legendary Mexican Oscar de la Hoya was sent into retirement by Filipino Manny Pacquiao on December 6 in Las Vegas.
Manny Pacquiao is undoubtedly the Philippines’ most popular sports icon. He’s a simple guy of extraordinary grit. Glorious in his bouts, he remains humble with his feet firmly planted on the ground. In his most recent match, which kept millions of Filipinos all over the world glued to their radios or TV screens, he emerged as the winner against the much touted “golden boy” Oscar de la Joya in an eight-round TKO decision.

The good-natured Pacquiao shows his mettle even inside the ring. Recah Trinidad, a Philippine Daily Inquirer (PDI) columnist, wrote: “How Pacquiao lent boxing a warm human touch was no coincidence. In fact, Pacquiao would later bare that he often took pity on the helpless De La Hoya. After cornering and shaking up De La Hoya, Pacquiao would often stall in his offensive. Of course, this was not out of a sudden attack of compassion and humility.”

Pacquiao’s matches are surely a diversion to many people, not just Filipinos. His bouts relieve the stress of a faltering economy and provide national entertainment on a humdrum weekend. They have even led to truces among warring camps and a drop in crime rate, even as rebels and thieves are kept off the streets to catch a glimpse of his exciting matches. Apparently Eid Kabalu, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front civil-military affairs chief, has been known to say, “If Manny fights every day, guns will always be silent.”

The 29-year-old Pacquiao is an interesting character. In the tough world of boxing, you see this man publicly acknowledging that among his weapons are absolute faith in God and prayer. He hangs a rosary around his neck just before a match, and he’s not shy about it. As soon as he steps into the boxing ring, he kneels in deep prayer in one corner. Meanwhile, thousands of kilometers away in General Santos City, he’s supported by a pious mother who spends hours praying before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Santo Nino (Holy Child Jesus) for the success of her son. After each victorious bout, an assistant immediately hops into the ring to hang once more the same holy rosary around Manny’s neck.

Returning to the Philippines after his victorious dream match, he went to the popular Black Nazarene Church in Manila. In a blog posted by Izah Morales in the PDI, she recalled: “After priest gave his final blessings, Pacquiao was asked to give a message to the people. During his message, Pacquiao thanked the people and attributed his success to God. He talked about the criticisms he got from some sportswriters before his bout with Oscar de la Hoya. But he said he did not lose hope as he kept his faith in God.

“Pacquiao told the crowd, ‘Don't tell God that [you] have a big problem. ut tell your problem [that you] have a big God.’”

It said that a boxer’s motto is “It’s better to give than to receive.” But Pacquaio goes beyond that quip. It was reported that before his “dream match” with de la Joya, he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for tickets to be distributed among his friends and supporters. For him, it was a way of giving back. Some labeled it as superstition. But Pacquiao has that penchant for sharing his blessings with others. At the end of his match he was quoted saying, “I’m just happy that I made a lot of people happy.”

Pacquiao was tempted to venture into politics last year when he ran for a seat in Congress. He was soundly defeated, much to the delight of his fans, who wanted him to stay in the ring.

A recent PDI editorial warned Pacquiao against pursuing further political ambitions: “Pacquiao's achievements have been fully his own, as far as boxing is concerned. His becoming a sports hero has led not only to riches, but also has won him the incomparable affections of an entire nation. That success and that affection are his because of how he unites a nation otherwise divided and discouraged by politics.

“No one can doubt that Pacquiao is looking for a career that will not just give meaning to his life after boxing, but which will also allow him to help others as so many have helped him rise from rags to riches through sports. The question is not whether he can or should try to be a force for public good, but whether the public good is served by his entering politics.

“His dogged determination, his dedication to his sport, his discipline and his ability to improve himself, all the while maintaining a sunny disposition and picking no quarrels with people outside the boxing ring, suggest to us that the greatest good for the greatest number lies in Pacquiao staying out of the political arena. He is a political force by sheer force of being who he is-the man who unites-and staying that way.”

The good-tempered, level-headed Pacquiao is no Mike Tyson. He is unlikely to end up like many other boxers: broke, cheated, disgraced or punch-drunk. But he should stay out of politics. The punches thrown in political shadow boxing are more vicious than any he will ever face in the ring.

Zen Udani is Assistant Professor of Management at the University of Macau.



I have never been a huge fan of mixing religion with fighting, but to each their own I guess.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: maija on December 22, 2008, 04:42:54 PM
@Ronin,
Mayweather has very good timing, finds good openings, plays range very well and has great body angles and evasive skills .... In the system of eskrima I study (Visayan Corto Kadena), these skills are what our, so called, 'TippyTappy' drills develop. Perhaps for him also .....?
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Ronin on December 23, 2008, 05:23:46 AM
@Ronin,
Mayweather has very good timing, finds good openings, plays range very well and has great body angles and evasive skills .... In the system of eskrima I study (Visayan Corto Kadena), these skills are what our, so called, 'TippyTappy' drills develop. Perhaps for him also .....?

Sure, I am just not a big fan of them, that's all.
Sugar Ray did it first and did it better, but that's only my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Sun_Helmet on December 23, 2008, 08:30:21 PM
(from another forum)
Sugar Ray eats this Cuban guy alive for the 1976 Gold Medal.

1.)Always stays outside the Cuban's lead. Works his jab and jab-hook combos. Parry's the jab and puts a cross down the middle.

2.) When he moves right, He never moves into the cross, always laterally with his right hand up.

3.) His footwork is amazing. He does a great little move that the Cuban never catches. He takes one step to his right and then rolls left, getting the Cuban to "bite" on the right step and throw the left cross. Classic. A blueprint for righties everywhere.


My uncle worked in the administration at Sugar Ray's high school. Ray Leonard thought of him as a sort of mentor because my uncle was also a link to the Great Flash Elorde... he was very much into boxing. His son was a boxer in Elorde's stable prior to entering West Point. I asked my cousin about his meeting with Ray Leonard and he said that at that moment in time Ray Leonard's speed and mitt work was incredible to behold. He got the opportunity to spar a round with him but it wasn't serious sparring.

Ray Leonard was a good guy - when he won the gold in Montreal - he had my uncle there as a guest.

In his fight with Marvin Hagler, Ray Leonard did the mirror of what Manny did in the De La Hoya fight - he led with the strong hand instead of the jab and then spun off --  it flustered Hagler.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 23, 2008, 10:48:16 PM
Tangential story:

For a time one of my sisters parlayed working for Howard Cosell :roll: into some fairly heavy involvement with boxing telecasts and PR (e.g. she represented heavyweight champ Riddick Bowe for a time) , , , Anyway, as part of this she would get me gigs from time to time as "assistant stage manager" for various championship fights.  Mostly this meant that I sat at Al Bernstein's elbow and controlled security in the area.   

When welter champ Marlon Starling came up to middleweight to challenge Michael Nunn, the color commentators were Angelo Dundee and then heavyweight champ Buster Douglas and I got to spend the day with them escorting them around and such.  Both AD and BD were a pleasure to spend the day with.

The night before BD defended his title against Evander Holyfield, there was a dress rehearsal for the pre-fight ceremonies.  I got to meet Sugar Ray AND Thommy Hearns (got to read TH's hand too-- an absolutely amazing hand!)  A few minutes later I saw TH and Sugar Ray sitting down together in deep conversation  IIRC they probably were plotting their second or third fight.    After TH returned to his entourage, someone else sat down with SR and during the course of the conversation SR apparently was showing the other man some details about jabbing.  Naturally this had my attention!

Good times , , ,
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 06, 2009, 04:39:01 PM
Anyone have any good clips to share of Jersey Joe Walcott and/or George Forman after his comeback?
Title: Fear and Loathing in Boxing
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 11, 2010, 04:26:40 PM

LAS VEGAS – Former heavyweight champion Evander Holyfield is using George Foreman's comeback more than 15 years ago as inspiration.

The 47-year-old Holyfield (43-10-2, 28 KOs) knocked out 41-year-old Frans Botha with 2:05 left in the eighth round to claim the WBF heavyweight championship on Saturday night. Holyfield (43-10-2) knocked the defending champion down 31 seconds earlier with a right to the chin.

Botha (47-5-3) beat refree Russell Mora's count, but Mora then stopped the fight with the South African backed into a corner.

"I'm going to be the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world," Holyfield said.

Two judges, Jerry Roth and Glenn Feldman, had Botha ahead 67-66 when the fight was stopped. The other judge, Herb Santee, had it 69-64 for Holyfield.

"I'm happy Botha gave me an opportunity," Holyfield said. "When people talk about you, it's who I fought. I fought the best."

There were only 3,127 people at the Thomas & Mack Center, most rooting for Holyfield in his first fight since Dec. 20, 2008, when he lost a majority decision to Nikolay Valuev.

"George Foreman said, 'It's not about my age,'" Holyfield referred to what the former champ said back in the 1990s. "He became heavyweight champion of the world."

In the second round, Holyfield briefly lost his balance, stumbling into a corner after a right from Botha with 2:04 left.

"(Holyfield has) got the skills. He's got the determination," Botha said. "He landed his shots. He's a true warrior. I didn't feel ashamed losing to a great champion like him."

At the post-fight press conference, it was mentioned Holyfield would like to fight one of the Klitschko brothers, who hold three of the four major heavyweight champions. Wladmir Klitschko holds two titles, while Vatali holds one.

Early on, Botha was warned by the referee twice in the first three rounds for hitting behind the head. Botha also was warned in the first round for a double hit to the head during a clinch.

This was Holyfield's first fight in Las Vegas since 2003, when he lost to James Toney at Mandalay Bay.

Before Saturday, Holyfield was only 10-6 in Las Vegas
Title: Serious hand speed
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 24, 2011, 09:17:10 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8r4DoCeSc
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: G M on February 24, 2011, 12:08:53 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj8r4DoCeSc[/youtube]

Impressive.
Title: Boxing Thread: Ali-Frazier, 40 years ago today
Post by: DougMacG on March 08, 2011, 10:45:00 AM
Bring back any memories?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_fight_of_the_century_eK4J5gf5ZqZdlQ6UlwQdOP

(http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2011/03/08/news/photos_stories/08.1o025.rosen1--300x300.jpg)
Title: Mayweather jumproping
Post by: Crafty_Dog on July 10, 2011, 03:56:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B2Vrg1Y25c&feature=player_embedded
Title: Bernard Hopkins advises Rashad Evans
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 12, 2011, 05:34:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHwPBTDDp00
Title: WSJ: Pacquiao challenger trains Vegan
Post by: Crafty_Dog on February 28, 2012, 08:47:07 AM

If you click on this URL, can you see the article?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204520204577247533423440946.html

=================

Pretty soon the boxer will pass on the burger. He will deny the cheese. He will skip the sushi that he adores, and he will not—as Sylvester Stallone did so memorably and nauseatingly in "Rocky"—break five eggs into a glass, and slurp them down raw.

Instead, the boxer will embrace the quinoa. He will thrill to the avocado and befriend the almond. He will enjoy the spinach, the tofu, and the $7.95 organic smoothie that bears his not-yet-household name.

And on June 9 in Las Vegas, after months of strict vegan training, the undefeated boxer Timothy Bradley Jr. hopes to have the fight of his life—and defeat the world-renowned champion Manny Pacquiao.

"Dude, I swear, it's the most unbelievable feeling ever," Bradley said. It was Thursday morning in New York City, and Bradley, 28, was riding to a news conference in a slick SUV, praising the diet he believes gives him a pronounced advantage in the ring.

Enlarge Image

CloseReuters
 
Timothy Bradley (left) beat Joel Casamayor by TKO in the eighth round on Nov. 12.
."The reason I love it so much is that I feel connected to the world," Bradley said. He was wearing a charcoal gray suit jacket, a purple dress shirt, and jeans. "My thoughts are clearer, crisp. I am sharp. Everything is working perfectly—I feel clean. It's a weird feeling, man. It's just a weird feeling."

Bradley, who lives and trains in Palm Springs, Calif., first experimented with a vegan diet in 2008, when he was readying for a title fight in London, England. An adviser suggested that a vegan regimen would give him more energy and endurance. Bradley was given a list of foods to consider.

By his own description a "meat and potatoes guy," Bradley was staggered to feel an almost-immediate surge in preparation and competition. "I was able to outwork a lot of my opponents," he said.

"He really liked it," said Bradley's trainer, Joel Diaz. "His body felt different."

Since then, Bradley—nicknamed "Desert Storm"—has stuck by the vegan diet as he became junior welterweight champion and built an unblemished record of 28-0. For three months leading up to a bout, he will eat vegan, with no exceptions. This is what he intends for his MGM Grand showdown with Pacquiao on the second Saturday in June.

"I'll still be a vegan even after the weigh-in," Bradley said.

Bradley's taste is well-known in vegan circles in Palm Springs, the city where he first began to box at age 10. Tydel Wilson, a manager at the Palm Greens Cafe, said the fighter will visit the restaurant twice a day during his peak training periods. Palm Greens went so far as to create a smoothie called the "Bradley's Ultra Green" which includes spinach, kale, mint, ginger, probiotic, bananas, aloe vera, apple juice and Spirulina.

"He's such a great patron," Wilson said. "He knows most of the people here."

Bradley is hardly the first athlete to find success with vegan training. Over the years the diet has found a place in the conditioning routines of top-tier players like NFL tight end Tony Gonzalez. Cyclist David Zabriskie raced the Tour de France as a near-vegan, supplementing with small amounts of fish. Not long ago the ex-boxing champion Mike Tyson credited a vegan diet with shedding weight and improving his well-being.

But Bradley is not a retired boxer making "Hangover" movies, like Tyson. He's an elite up-and-comer who will become the latest to try and dethrone Pacquiao, the wildly popular champion and Congressman from the Philippines.

Boxing fans had hoped this spring would finally deliver a fight between Pacquiao and his dream rival Floyd Mayweather Jr. But when that pairing unravelled again, Bradley got his shot.

"It's new blood going against old blood," Bradley said. "I'm in my prime, man."

Bradley's six-month-old daughter, Jada, yelped happily in the back seat, watched over by Bradley's wife, Monica. As he prepares for the biggest fight of his career, Bradley still lives in that unpretentious place between confidence and celebrity. While the globally famous Pacquiao travels in a mega-orbit of associates and advisers and occasionally a personal composer, Bradley's entourage is light—just a few associates, including his father, Tim Sr. On the occasion he is recognized, he never refuses an autograph.

"I've met a couple celebrities that I admired and they completely destroyed me," Bradley explained. "They were rude and didn't want to sign an autograph or take a picture. I thought if I ever made anything out of my life, I would never turn down a fan, ever. I know how that feels."

He can still travel without much interruption. The night before, as Pacquiao navigated a frantic schedule that included a scheduled meeting with NBA sensation Jeremy Lin (the summit was called off after an exhausted Pacquiao was sent to bed), Bradley and Monica went to a peaceful dinner at the Olive Garden in Times Square. Bradley joked that dinners like these were one reason he couldn't go vegan for 12 months of the year.

"I don't want to lose my wife!" he said.

"I eat more vegetables than he does," Monica protested.

"That's true," Bradley said. "I don't think I can go [vegan] year round. But for fights, I have to do it."

The SUV pulled up to an event space on Manhattan's West Side. Bradley jumped out and unhitched the trunk to remove his daughter's baby stroller. While a line of boxing fans watched, Manny Pacquiao's next opponent spent a few seconds wrestling with the stroller before it snapped open, ready to roll. Maybe it wasn't the flashiest entrance, but the vegan contender had arrived.

Title: The Wisdom of Jimmy Wilde.
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 10:11:06 AM
Guro C, if this is the wrong thread to post these, please advise. Salamat po.

----------------

My deepest thanks to marbleheadmaui of http://www.saddoboxing.com (http://www.saddoboxing.com) for posting this

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    I have been fortunate enough to find a wonderful source for old time boxing books. Mr. Clay Moyle. Moyle is best known for his recent biography of Sam Langford (which I recommend). From time to time I will provide book reports of sorts.

    The first is a short 1927 book by the immortal Jimmy Wilde entitled The Art of Boxing. For those unfamiliar with Wilde he is basically the man the flyweight division was created for. A Welshman, Wilde is p4p one of the top ten punchers in history. He was tiny at 5'2 and for much of his career he fought at under 100 pounds. He usually weighed in fully clothed including his shoes and spent his whole career outweighed by 10-20 pounds. Yet somehow he knocked out over 100 men. While fighting in the US he often was forced to put on weight in order to fight legally as many states had laws limiting weight differentials. Catchweights indeed! Gene Tunney called Wilde the finest fighter he ever saw. Here are some of the points he makes in his book I found interesting. All of the below (with the obvious exceptions) are the thoughts of Jimmy Wilde:

    Biographical
   
    The Stance


    Attack and Defense


    The Knock Out


    Countering the Jab

    Injuries and How to Conceal Them (think Jimmy Wilde was a man or what?)

    Ringcraft

    I hope you all learned at least something from Jimmy Wilde. I sure did.
Title: The Wisdom of Barney Ross.
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 10:11:55 AM
My deepest thanks to marbleheadmaui of http://www.saddoboxing.com (http://www.saddoboxing.com) for posting this

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    The greatest Jewish fighter of all time, the second man to be an undisputed three division champion and one of THE fascinating lives ever lived. Father killed in a robbery, worked for Al Capone, degenerate gambler, after he retired he joined the Marines and was a decorated hero on Guadalcanal and later ran guns to Israel. Shortly after he retired he published "The Fundamentals of Boxing." I'll stick to the high points. Except for the parenthetical, the thoughts are those of Barney Ross. This book is more complete and in depth than Wilde's so I am going to stick to major points and boxing tactics.


    General

    Defense

    Counterpunching

    Offensive Strategy

    Bodypunching and Infighting

    Training

    Here is how Barney Ross closes his book

    Only a small part of a champion's greatness lies in his ability. Far more important is his eagerness to learn, his flair for adding finesse and polish to his style. Most important of all is his love of the game. Every great champion was once a beginner. Without this essential love for the sport, he would always remain a beginner.
Title: The Wisdom of Jack Dempsey.
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 10:12:32 AM
My deepest thanks to marbleheadmaui of http://www.saddoboxing.com (http://www.saddoboxing.com) for posting this

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    The Jimmy Wilde and Barney Ross books I summarized recently were both useful and insightful. But Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting: Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense" is on another level entirely. It is far longer and absolutely full of insights, thoughtful approaches, sketches and explanations. It is a boxing tour de force. I was very surprised by two things. First, I think of Dempsey as a kind of raw offensive machine. It simply ain't true. The knowledge he imparts here is comprehensive. Secondly, Dempsey and his editor Jack Cuddy make it sounds like Dempsey is actually teaching the reader. Concise declarative sentences. Written in 1950.

    Dempsey spends a great deal of time on the Trigger Step (also called the Falling Step) as a source of power among other things, but I found the most interesting sections were on Defensive Technique. The thoughts below are all Dempsey's except for those in parenthesis which are kine.

    Dempsey begins with his definition of defense : How to prevent a starting punch from landing on its target, and how to counter with a punch. (the bold is mine. How often do we see fighters today avoid getting hit and not doing anything else? I found it fascinating that Dempsey was utterly dismissive of jumping away or moving out of punching range as legitimate, championship level defense. Why? Because it only does half the job. Jumping away or moving out of range isn't Aggressive Defense because one cannot counterpunch while doing those things.)

    Dempsey provides a cascade of defense.

    Blocking-This is the least preferable. Why? A solid block can affect one's balance, because repeated shots on say the left deltoid can affect punching power as the fight goes on and because one cannot punch while blocking. Blocking can be done with the hands, shoulders, combined with a body pivot, forearms and elbows and can be used against all punches. Dempsey goes punch by punch with the best options. He emphasizes the eyes must be kept open because for each block there is a best immediate counter. This is the first kind of defense to be taught. (Fighters like Mr. Ronald Wright and Arthur Abraham never moved beyond it. Fighters like James Toney and BHOP and Floyd Mayweather rely on the shoulder portion of this technique).


    Deflection-This is parrying and "brushing off." Brushing off is also called "glancing-off." This is a violent chopping movement. Deflection is superior to Blocking because one's balance remains unaffected, one is not taking punches that can wear over time and because it is done with one hand at a time so the other is free to punch. One limitation of this technique is it should be avoided against hooks. The parry is used against straight punches (think Mr. Miyagi's "side-side.") Dempsey notes that cross-Parries, i.e. blocking a left jab with one's left hand, are a bad idea as you are open to a counter right hand with nothing to stop it. Dempsey also warns against parrying "inside-out" against fast handed foes. The "Glance-off" is a more solid deflection. This move is why fighters use the backhand on the speedbag. This is training the deflection. (Think "wax-on, wax-off" and "paint the fence" taught by Mr. Miyagi. Joe Louis, Alexis Arguello and again BHOP, Toney and Floyd rely on this as does Juan Manuel Marquez).

    Evasion-The King of defensive techniques. Evasion is forcing the foe to miss a punch without any physical contact, while remaining in position to land a counter. Why is it the king? No punishment taken and both hands free to counterpunch. Dempsey outlines four ways to evade; Slipping, bobbing, footwork and pulling away. A slip is simply rolling the shoulders that allows a straight punch to go over a shoulder. (Willie Pep, Joe Gans, Salvador Sanchez, Tony Canzoneri, Sweet Pea are wonderful practitioners of this.) Dempsey outlines the best counter against each punch and whether that punch has been slipped to the right or left. Bobbing is simply artful bowing from the waist and is especially effective against hooks to the head and in closing on the foe. No foot movement is used for either the slip or the bob. As a result the feet are ready to punch. Now when bobbing one must always be ready to simultaneously slip (the "bob and weave"). By slipping while bobbing one makes the head hard to hit and adds uncertainty as to where you are moving or punching next. (Think Joe Frazier, Nicolino Locche, a young Mike Tyson and of course Dempsey himself). Footwork can be the defensive sidestep, a single step and a pivot with the other foot. If stepping right the right foot steps and the left pivots. One punches as the stepping foot lands, not while it is stepping. Another useful piece of footwork is stepping inside a hook toward the foe. A variety of punches are available in each case. But in general when stepping inside one throws the opposite hand of the one being evaded. For example a left hook is best countered by stepping inside and throwing the right hand. (Joe Gans, Floyd Mayweather, Barney Ross, Willie Pep, Benny Leonard all did lots of this). The worst kind of evasion is "pulling away." This is basically swaying from the waist and shifting one's weight to the back foot with or without a step. This is a last resort against straight punches but should never be used against hooks to the head. (Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali anyone?). The problem is once someone gets used to pulling away from straight punches they often instinctively try to do so against hooks.

    If you can get your hands on this book it really is a treat!
Title: The Wisdom of Charley Goldman.
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 10:13:14 AM
My deepest thanks to marbleheadmaui of http://www.saddoboxing.com (http://www.saddoboxing.com) for posting this

----------------------------------------------------------

Charley Goldman was a pre-WWI bantamweight. He stood 5'1. He had over 130 fights and was by most accounts a competent journeyman though he did get a shot at the bantam crown on one occasion. Goldman retired at 29 due to among other things, terribly brittle hands.

But Goldman is far better known as the trainer of a series of undisputed champions. Middleweight Al McCoy, featherweight Joey Archibald and lightweight king Lou Ambers. Goldman is most well known as the man who shaped Rocky Marciano. In 1957 Goldman, Marciano and a manager, judo expert and writer named Al Bachman published a how to book. The book is just under 200m pages and loaded with insights on every element of the sport. It is clearly designed for the young man just taking up the game and is titled Rocky Marciano's Boy's Book of Boxing and Body Building.

One section really had me thinking after the fights of the last two weeks. It is authored by Goldman and is titled The Art of Infighting. He writes separately for the unusually tall and the unusually short fighter and goes so far, along with Marciano, to detail two fictional fights, one from each perspective, near the end of the book. But here I'll stick to the basic instruction. As usual these are Goldman's thoughts with mine in parenthesis.

Short Fighters
Tall Fighters

Things for both to remember
Title: The Wisdom of Mike Gibbons.
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 10:14:28 AM
My deepest thanks to marbleheadmaui of http://www.saddoboxing.com (http://www.saddoboxing.com) for posting this

----------------------------------------------------------

Mike Gibbons was the older and smaller of the legendary Gibbons Brothers. Mike was mostly a middle and fought around the WWI years. How good was he? How about 110+ wins against a dozen losses and he was never knocked out. How good was the competition? Mike went 4-2 against HOFers including a win over a young Harry Greb. In other words Mike Gibbons was the real deal.

He published several books on training and boxing technique the following is taken from his How to Box published in 1925. The book is seventy five pages of instruction with extraordinary demonstration photos showing the Gibbons Brothers using model technique. The book covers every element of the sport and I am going to focus on his commentary on "Ring Generalship." As always the ideas are Gibbons with any comments I might have in parenthesis.

Size Up the Opponent


Keep Him on the Defensive

Don't Rush Wildly

Never Lead Blindly
Develop Easy Style

Change Your Tactics

Box Your Own Style

Keep Cool When Hurt

Keep Chin Protected

Look Out For Traps
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 12, 2012, 02:44:43 PM
Very nice SG.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Stickgrappler on September 12, 2012, 07:39:32 PM
Very nice SG.

Tail wags Guro C!
Title: Old school boxing coach
Post by: Crafty_Dog on September 18, 2012, 04:58:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syhb3z4pTFQ
Title: The Cardinal Sins of Boxing by Doug Ward
Post by: Stickgrappler on October 10, 2012, 09:22:51 PM
Thank you Leo Daher for posting this elsewhere which I copied and pasted here.

http://www.titleboxing.com/news/the-cardinal-sins-of-boxing/

Quote
The Cardinal Sins of Boxing

by Doug Ward on October 9, 2012


There are some very specific things you have to do inside the ring to be a good boxer, but there are also some very specific things you should NEVER do in the ring in order to be a good boxer. Of course, there are the basic rules, like…don’t drop your jab when you bring it back, don’t step with the wrong foot first, be sure to keep your hands up and so on. Aside from some of these types of common, basic mistakes, there are a few more advanced ones that should be taken very seriously. Consider them the Cardinal Sins of Boxing.

Sin #1. Never, ever drop your hands when you are coming out of an exchange. If you step back with your hands down, you are almost always guaranteed to get clipped. Instances where this has come back to bite a fighter are endless, but for a perfect example, type Mike McCallum versus Donald Curry into YouTube and, at least, watch the fifth round to see the last, biggest mistake a once-promising fighter ever made.

Sin #2. Never step straight back when you go on the defensive. Step side to side, give your opponent angles and force them to adjust their attack to find you. When you move straight back, you are staying right in the line of fire and right on the end of your opponents punches…the last place you want to be.

Sin #3. When you have just ducked and slipped a combination and are coming up from a crouched position, come up throwing. Don’t just expect your opponent to stop throwing and let you stand up to engage again. Transform it into an offensive move by immediately retaliating from your defensive position and turning the tide back in your favor.

Sin #4. Never reach out to block punches. Make your opponent come to you. Make him commit to the punch, commit his weight and then counter. When you meet the punch half way, you make your opponent’s job too easy. Again, if you want a perfect example, look at the fourth round of Lennox Lewis versus Hasim Rahman on YouTube. The third round says it all.

Sin #5. Don’t lead from the outside with an inside punch. The uppercut is an inside punch. The hook is an inside punch. Floyd Mayweather has a slick and effective left hook lead, but only because he uses it correctly. He uses it sparingly, he uses it selectively, but he is also Floyd Mayweather and there’s only one of those. As a general rule…don’t do it. Don’t lead with a hook or with an uppercut. They are outside punches and take too long to reach their mark. Instead, properly set them up with lead punches and sprinkle them into your combinations to make them most effective.

Once you’re inside the ring, there are a myriad of mistakes you can make. Any one of them may be minor and have little or no effect on the outcome of the fight. Then, there is the other kind. It is major. It can be dramatic and it can work against you, sometimes spelling your defeat. No mistakes are good, but breaking any one of the Cardinal Sins of Boxing and you’re opening yourself up to making a major faux pas. It is usually unforgiving with bad consequences and you won’t get away with it very often. Confess to yourself or to your coach that you will never be tempted to do any of these. There is no good in them. Now go and sin no more.
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Stickgrappler on October 11, 2012, 11:52:58 AM
Quote
Sin #5. Don’t lead from the outside with an inside punch. The uppercut is an inside punch. The hook is an inside punch. Floyd Mayweather has a slick and effective left hook lead, but only because he uses it correctly. He uses it sparingly, he uses it selectively, but he is also Floyd Mayweather and there’s only one of those. As a general rule…don’t do it. Don’t lead with a hook or with an uppercut. They are outside punches and take too long to reach their mark. Instead, properly set them up with lead punches and sprinkle them into your combinations to make them most effective.

 
[/quote]

I'm guessing it's a typo and Doug Ward meant "inside" punches when he wrote "outside"
Title: WSJ: Pacquiao
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 10, 2012, 08:08:10 AM
LAS VEGAS—The day after a megafight here is always eerie. First there is madness, and a few hours later, there is such dead quiet you can hear the swoosh of the cars again. On Saturday night, there was also pandemonium, with tens of thousands of Mexican fans celebrating Juan Manuel Márquez's stunning knockout victory over Manny Pacquiao.
 




Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao was defeated by Mexican fighter Juan Manuel Márquez. Sports journalist Ted Lerner talks about the reaction in the Philippines and how Pacquiao was knocked out in the sixth round.
.




Filipino boxer Manny Pacquiao was defeated by rival Juan Manuel Marquez Saturday night. Pacquiao was knocked out in the sixth round of the event. Photo: Associated Press.
.
For weeks before the bout, Pacquiao and his team were crowing that that they were determined to get a knockout this time. Márquez believed him and developed a perfect strategy to deal with Pacquiao's fury. In the first couple of rounds, Márquez ate a lot of Pacquiao punches as he backed up, patiently waiting for the opening to the victory over Pacquiao he has been craving since 2004.



Pacquiao vs. Márquez







View Slideshow
Reuters
Márquez, left, takes a vicious right hook from Pacquiao.
..
With barely a second remaining in the sixth round, Pacquiao missed with a left, and Márquez nailed him full force with a right hook to the chin that knocked his nemesis cold. Pacquiao was motionless for over a minute. Until he came around, some ringside observers feared that Pacquiao might have been hit with a fatal blow.

Boxing is a sport framed in ambivalence. Even those of us who love the science and grit of fighters have our qualms and worry about the gladiators we cheer. That ambivalence was compressed in the ring Saturday as Márquez leapt in joy while Pacquiao struggled to sit up.
 


More

Heard: What Now for Manny Pacquiao?

Philippines Wonders About Hero's Future

Earlier: Márquez Knocks Out Pacquiao in Sixth Round
.
The bout itself was a breathtaking ballet of violence and technique. But it didn't take long for a cloud of skepticism to roll in. Márquez has never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs, but boxing fans and reporters were jabbing with questions about Márquez's newfound might. Meanwhile, as Márquez's fans celebrated, Pacquiao went to the hospital for a CT scan. It was negative, but such scans don't reveal what, if any, long-term damage was inflicted under the klieg lights.
 
At the post-fight news conference, it was clear that a bout with Floyd Mayweather or a rematch with Márquez are still on the table for Pacquiao. Indeed, after Pacquiao's nose-dive Saturday, it could be that Mayweather, now the undisputed pound-for-pound king, will find himself more inclined than ever to make their elusive fight. But make no mistake about it: Mayweather can throw a counter right just as well as the one that almost decapitated Pacquiao here.

Pacquiao is now a veteran of 61 fights. Many of his recent frays have been wars. And like miles on a car, hammer-and-tong battles always take something from the combatants that they cannot get back. Ever since he has attained his supernova status, Pacquiao has lost some of the gleam in his eyes for the bruising art. Unlike many boxers, Pacquiao has a passion for something other than punching prowess: He is a congressman in the Philippines with what many believe is a brilliant political future. But there will be Brink's trucks at his door in a few months with offers of future fights, and he will need to think about the price of that money and whether he can continue his part-time work in the world of hitting and being hit.
 
"It depends on how he feels and what he wants to do," his chagrined trainer Freddie Roach said late Saturday night, when asked about Pacquiao's possible retirement. "And if we do fight again and we get back in the gym and I see good signs, we'll go on. And if I see bad signs, we won't."
Title: Pacquiao vs. Marquez
Post by: For_Crafty_Dog on December 28, 2012, 10:05:53 AM
(http://dogbrothers.com/kostas/Pacquiao_knockout_foot_trap.jpg)
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 24, 2013, 05:58:55 AM
One of my favorite fighters was Prince Naseem.  There is a lot to study here!   Why does what he does work when it is so "wrong"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA0jLvUxGjI
Title: Bernard Hopkins?
Post by: Crafty_Dog on March 12, 2013, 11:07:11 AM
What happened in the recent fight with Bernard Hopkins?
Title: sore loser KOs winner
Post by: Crafty_Dog on June 24, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1386814841533551
Title: Happy 47th Birthday Mike Tyson!
Post by: Stickgrappler on June 30, 2013, 05:41:21 PM
Woof:

I made 4 animated GIF's for the occasion :)


Mike Tyson vs Hector Mercedes - March 6, 1985
(Iron Mike's professional debut)


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-BxDuIV4G4Mk/Uc0p6bnue_I/AAAAAAAAC2w/3sWfogDlmE8/s400/1985-03-06-TysonXHectorMercedes-sg.gif)


Mike Tyson vs Trent Singleton - April 10, 1985

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3BD4qOUrXFc/Uc0qGqKY8BI/AAAAAAAAC24/zGvqQS7aQHE/s400/1985-04-10-TysonXTrentSingleton-sg.gif)


Mike Tyson vs Donald Halpin - May 23, 1985

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Wfp9eiHaEzg/Uc0qPwXlFfI/AAAAAAAAC3A/oOQevIne3oo/s400/1985-05-23-TysonXDonHalpin-sg.gif)



Mike Tyson vs Rick Spain - June 20, 1985


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MYXQoWwaX80/Uc0qpKiIlmI/AAAAAAAAC3I/gCpwrdx2XDA/s400/1985-06-20-TysonXRicardoSpain-sg.gif)

More to come. Enjoy!

~sg
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Stickgrappler on July 01, 2013, 09:56:33 PM
Made these GIF's for my site, reposting here, Enjoy!


Mike Tyson vs Lorenzo Canady - Aug. 15, 1985

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ShiIBsds14s/Uc5UrIbihZI/AAAAAAAAC4I/XRq_A_ocEts/s400/1985-08-15-TysonXLorenzoCanady-sg.gif)

Mike Tyson vs Michael Johnson - Sept. 5, 1985

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dmMl9uPHrx8/Uc5U4b80v_I/AAAAAAAAC4Q/kaQoV8g-f_8/s400/1985-09-05-TysonXMichaelJohnson-sg.gif)

Mike Tyson vs Donnie Long - Oct. 9, 1985

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_x2p9edg4Yo/Uc5VOlv-RdI/AAAAAAAAC4Y/81IrgpTsu8w/s400/1985-10-09-TysonXDonnieLong-sg.gif)

Mike Tyson vs Rober Colay - Oct. 25, 1985

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p3cOhW_j-Ro/Uc5VrTNFP_I/AAAAAAAAC4g/jRI-w6yZXpk/s400/1985-10-25-TysonXRobertColay-sg.gif)
Title: Freddie Roach hits the mitts
Post by: Crafty_Dog on November 30, 2013, 06:30:27 PM
http://www.fightsaga.com/video-tidbits/item/3763-Freddie-Roach-works-the-mitts-Alex-Ariza-may-have-been-in-for-a-big-surprise-%28VIDEO%29
Title: Boxing Thread - Frankie Liles
Post by: For_Crafty_Dog on January 10, 2014, 11:11:23 AM
Photos courtesy of former WBA Super Middleweight Champion Frankie Liles

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo01.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo02.jpg)
"Myself Evil Knievel and Mark Breland I lost a hundred dollar bet to him lol"

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo03.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo04.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo05.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo06.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo07.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo08.jpg)
"Me and Ray when he was Champ and I was 18"

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo09.jpg)
"Ali came To Ecuador to watch me defend my title against Michael Nunn"

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo10.jpg)
"I was Freddie-Roach's first champion"

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo11.jpg)
"This is me and Alexis"

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo12.jpg)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo13.png)

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo14.jpg)
"Me and Thomas who's like a big brother to me."

(http://www.dogbrothers.com/kostas/Frankie_Liles/photo15.jpg)
"One of my Filipino students"
Title: Hurricane Carter dies at 76
Post by: Crafty_Dog on April 20, 2014, 08:31:54 AM
Rubin (Hurricane) Carter, Fearsome Boxer Wrongly Convicted of Murder, Dies at 76
Rubin (Hurricane) Carter, a star prizefighter whose career was cut short by a murder conviction in New Jersey and who became an international cause célèbre while imprisoned for 19 years before the charges against him were dismissed, died on Sunday morning at his home in Toronto, his friend and onetime co-defendant, John Artis, confirmed. He was 76.
The cause of death was prostate cancer, Mr. Artis said. Mr. Carter was being treated in Toronto, where he founded a nonprofit organization, Innocence International, to work to free prisoners it considered wrongly convicted.
READ MORE »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/sports/hurricane-carter-fearsome-boxer-wrongly-convicted-of-murder-dies-at-76.html?emc=edit_na_20140420

Title: Re: Hurricane Carter dies at 76
Post by: DougMacG on April 23, 2014, 07:18:43 AM
Rubin (Hurricane) Carter, Fearsome Boxer Wrongly Convicted of Murder, Dies at 76
Rubin (Hurricane) Carter, a star prizefighter whose career was cut short by a murder conviction in New Jersey and who became an international cause célèbre while imprisoned for 19 years before the charges against him were dismissed, died on Sunday morning at his home in Toronto, his friend and onetime co-defendant, John Artis, confirmed. He was 76.
The cause of death was prostate cancer, Mr. Artis said. Mr. Carter was being treated in Toronto, where he founded a nonprofit organization, Innocence International, to work to free prisoners it considered wrongly convicted.
READ MORE »
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/sports/hurricane-carter-fearsome-boxer-wrongly-convicted-of-murder-dies-at-76.html?emc=edit_na_20140420

One Youtube of Bob Dylan, the story of Hurricane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvI3Y9Kuk5E
Lyics linked in the NY Times story:  http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/hurricane

If even partly true, this was a very sad episode in law enforcement and racial history.
Title: Wow this is an odd wake
Post by: ccp on October 17, 2014, 05:09:17 AM
Kind of creepy if you ask me but if it gives a family solace it is their business:

http://nypost.com/2014/01/31/dead-boxers-corpse-stands-posed-in-boxing-ring-at-wake/
Title: Emanuel Auigustus
Post by: ccp on October 17, 2014, 05:14:53 AM
I never saw any of his fights so when I learned of his recent shooting and pulled up these videos of his unique boxing style I was stunned.  Great body control and athletic ability:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82094466/
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 22, 2014, 08:52:21 AM
That is a VERY nice find.  What happened in his career?
Title: Pacquiao vs Diaz Highlight reel
Post by: greg jah on February 06, 2015, 01:06:48 PM
Hi everyone,

Here is a nice highlight reel of the Pacquiao v Diaz fight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7kIlYaEv-Q

Best,

Greg
Title: Roy Jones was a major badass
Post by: Crafty_Dog on August 20, 2015, 05:45:12 AM
https://www.facebook.com/dont.give.ah.fck/videos/715704411860484/
Title: Old Newspaper Article on Filipino Boxers
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 16, 2016, 09:32:49 AM
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4051108/filipino_boxers/
Title: Tragedies strike Filipino boxers
Post by: Crafty_Dog on January 21, 2016, 07:10:18 AM
Following up on article from 5 days ago

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/4050920/tragedies_strike_filipino_boxing/
Title: Lomachenko
Post by: Crafty_Dog on December 07, 2018, 10:45:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=608&v=CAU4nPC2dGw
Title: If anyone ever wondered what a kidney stone feels like-- George Foreman
Post by: ccp on October 09, 2019, 03:01:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlzehYyfo
Title: Re: Boxing Thread
Post by: Crafty_Dog on October 10, 2019, 02:45:36 PM
In Palm Spring for some championship fight (Donald Cobra Curry, Meldrick Taylor were on the card) GF was there in the dining room.  Ate three entrees.
Title: "Ate 3 entrees"
Post by: ccp on October 11, 2019, 07:02:20 AM
Ha ha

and speaking for George senior and food:

and he must have laughed all the way to the bank about his grill:

https://www.cnbc.com/id/38657945
Title: Mohammed Ali
Post by: Crafty_Dog on May 13, 2020, 10:58:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM3HmSb6CA0&feature=youtu.be