Dog Brothers Public Forum

Woof:

As there are a few ways to strike with the Tonfa, may I ask how you are striking?

1) Holding the longer tonfa shaft and using the Short Handle that is perpendicular to the shaft as the point of impact?
2) Holding the longer tonfa shaft and using the opposite end (the grip/handle) as the point of impact?
3) Holding the tonfa by the Short handle that is perpendicular to the shaft and 'spinning' it to strike with the end of the long tonfa shaft?

TIA.

~sg

Sorry I thought the way I described it would be decently clear. I am holding the short handle perpendicular to the shaft and spinning it to strike with the long end of the shaft. Any other way of holding it would cause the same amount of force to transfer back as if you were using just a normal expandable baton.

I was just watching an old episode of the TV show Cops and noticed it was one where the cops were still carrying the old standard pr-24 side handle baton. This got me wondering how that compares to a straight baton or kali stick. I personally have no experience with either a pr-24 or a tonfa so can't really compare. I would imagine that it would at the very least be more complicated to use, but would also imagine that it would have a wider variety of uses due to the handle. Has anyone here used both? What are your thoughts on the differences in power and techniques and how much harder or easier is it to use? Is a pr-24 something that is even useful enough to learn? Or is it more just for show?

I've trained in various martial arts off and on pretty much my entire life. But as far as FMA goes I trained with Griffin for about four months 11 years ago and have just started again. I've also trained along with the original RCSF videos as well as Kali Tudo 1 and 2 and some of the videos from the second series. I think at the very least by then I should have made enough progress with Lester to be decently comfortable attending.

Yes, that is it.  Thank you.

Anyway, from the sounds of things you might want to have your role-playing opponent wear something more like a helmet.

That's what I was thinking as well. I figure if nothing else it will help me make sure my foot work is in order. I have a class with Lester Griffin at his new school here in Hemet tomorrow night and I think it's something I may bring up with him and see what his thoughts are. Thank you for your input and advice as well.

I just watched a video that was posted on Eric Knaus's Facebook where he fought someone with no mask. First things first, the guy he fought should be glad he didn't catch one of his backhands... those things look like they'll kill you! But also it was interesting to watch because both fighters were being very cautious... you could tell they both had a great deal of respect for what would happen if they got hit. Because of this the fight had, in my opinion, a bit of a slower feel to it. This got me thinking "I wonder how different the fight would look if his opponent didn't have that respect... didn't understand that he can't just rush in and swing wildly". You could easily say that Eric would have just stepped back and let him have one of those backhands and that's all she wrote. Either way though I think the next time I'm sparring I'm going to ask my friend to try to emulate your typical street thug attack and see how I react to it. I figure if I ever have to defend myself that is the most likely scenario and so that's the one for which I want to be prepared.

Might someone be able to help me travel from an LAX area hotel to the Gathering site, and perhaps to a pre/post-Gathering meal/gathering if scheduled? Thank you very much!

I'd help you with that but that would have me driving right through Compton which is an area I'd kind of like to avoid since my wife will be with me. Sorry.

Allow me to clarify my intended meaning of these words:

" but I submit that an answer the equivalent of "I don't have to tell you" is likely to heighten the LEO's propensity to make all the negative inferences he can and act upon them.  Yes?""

It is my belief and philosophy that even if an arrest does not lead to conviction, as a practical matter you are thousands of dollars poorer and emotionally drained by your interaction with the legal system.  IMHO it is wise to keep this in mind when conversing with an officer.   Playing Perry Mason rarely plays well and even if he does not go after you for the arrest that will not lead to conviction he may decide to write you up for that tail light you did not realize was out, etc.   Good manners is good policy.

I would agree with that. I don't necessarily think however that it would be best to say that you have something for self defense though. If asked why I carry a knife (and as a side note my EDC is either my Rajah II or my Espada XL from Cold Steel) it's simply because it's a versatile tool which can come in handy in any number of both everyday and emergency situations. If asked for examples I can give them. I would never jump straight to "Oh, I carry this six inch Kukri style folding knife just in case I have to chop someones head off in an act of self-defense". I guess basically what my feeling on it is that while saying nothing may not be your best option, clearly full disclosure isn't either. I've always said just enough to keep the officer happy. The less I say, the less that can be misunderstood.

"Another interesting question might have been, if I was stopped by the officer in LA and he noticed my 6" screwdriver on the seat next to me; what would he do?  Probably nothing, but IF he asked, "what is the screwdriver for?" and I said, "self defense", he would be entitled to arrest me for having a dagger longer than 3" (LA City Limit).

"But the issue still is not "intent".  The issue is whether the instrument is legal to carry or not."

Disagree.  By your own words it is precisely the intent that turns it into a dagger.

As for the right to not answer, I suppose so-- but I submit that an answer the equivalent of "I don't have to tell you" is likely to heighten the LEO's propensity to make all the negative inferences he can and act upon them.  Yes?

I hope you don't mind me dropping this in here. I know the conversation was... quite some time ago, but I think this might be relevant. In People v. Fannin it is shown that intent can make a legal tool an illegal weapon. Johnny Fannin was found in possession of a chain with a lock on the end, and though he would later claim to use it as a bike lock, when asked by the officer what it was for he said it was for self-defense. The court ruled that this showed intent to use it as a weapon, and as one which is illegal under CA law. Now I don't have a background in law so I could be missing something, or even what you were saying in your post, but it does seem to me at least that this shows that it can come down to intent.

I thought I was going to die when I got to Manny "The Hialeah Kid" Reyes, Jr. Thanks for sharing this.

Surf Dog, who is retired from fighting, lives in Hemet.  Fu Dog and Beowulf, who do fight, are in Moreno Valley.

Thank you for the advice.

To quote a certain zombie movie: "Cardio".

Like anything, it depends. Try to use your strengths against your opponent's weaknesses.

That's probably true most of the time, but there is always the chance that you will come across a fat guy like me that jogs a 5k three times a week. I'm talking about the cardio part of course.

This may be a dumb question, but do you know when you will have the registration form available? Or is it already up and I'm just looking in the wrong place?

Just watched it again, I have it on my DVR, and Dr. Michael Addis is the one I was talking about.  It just really irritates me. Almost as much as the martial artists that want to say that the Dog Brothers are just brawlers with sticks, that can't correctly use the techniques of the style but refuse to step up at a gathering and prove it. I mean I've never fought at one of The Gatherings of the Pack, mainly for lack of transportation, but even I understand that if my back was against the wall I'd rather have even someone that got thoroughly destroyed in their one and only fight at a gathering than just about anyone else with me. Anyway, I'm starting to get off topic so I'll stop there. It is a really great documentary though and I recommend it to anyone that wants to get a bit of a better understanding of the Dog Brothers but is unable/unwilling to get to a gathering. I especially enjoyed that they didn't really "center" it around any one person. It was nice seeing the different people that show up to fight.

OK, this one is kind of long, but worth it. I have done my best to edit it for language. It's best if you read all three judges reactions. Anyway, here goes.

For those of you who have lived in Texas, you know how true this is. They actually have a Chili Cook-off about the time Halloween comes around. It takes up a major portion of the parking lot at the city park. The notes are from an inexperienced Chili taster named Frank, who was visiting from Canada. Frank: "Recently, I was honoured to be selected as a judge at a chili cook-off. The original person called in sick at the last moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking for directions to the Coors Light truck, when the call came in. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that the chili wouldn't be all that spicy and, besides, they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted." Here are the scorecards from the event:


Chili 1 - Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili

Judge 1 -- A little too heavy on the tomato. Amusing kick.
Judge 2 -- Nice, smooth tomato flavour. Very mild.
Judge 3 -- (Frank) Holy crap! What the hell is this stuff? You could
remove dried paint from your driveway. Took me two beers to put the flames out. I hope that's the worst one. These Texans are crazy.

Chili 2 - Arthur's Afterburner Chili

Judge 1 -- Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno tang.
Judge 2 -- Exciting BBQ flavour, needs more peppers to be taken seriously.
Judge 3 -- Keep this out of the reach of children. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to rush in more beer when they saw the look on my face.

Chili 3 - Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili

Judge 1 -- Excellent firehouse chili. Great kick. Needs more beans.
Judge 2 -- A beanless chili, a bit salty, good use of peppers.
Judge 3 -- Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now. Get me more beer before I ignite. Barmaid pounded me on the back, now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. I'm getting crap-faced from all of the beer.

Chili 4 - Bubba's Black Magic

Judge 1 -- Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing.
Judge 2 -- Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili.
Judge 3 -- I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable to taste it. Is it possible to burn out taste buds? Sally, the barmaid, was standing behind me with fresh refills. That 300-lb. chick is starting to look HOT...just like this is nuclear waste I'm eating! Is chili an aphrodisiac?

Chili 5 - Linda's Legal Lip Remover

Judge 1 -- Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground, adding considerable kick. Very impressive.
Judge 2 -- Chili using shredded beef, could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement.
Judge 3 -- My ears are ringing, sweat is pouring off my forehead and I can no longer focus my eyes. I farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed offended when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue from bleeding by pouring beer directly on it from the pitcher. I wonder if I'm burning my lips off. It really pisses me off that the other judges asked me to stop screaming. Screw those rednecks.

Chili 6 - Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety

Judge 1 -- Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spices and peppers.
Judge 2 -- The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb.
Judge 3 -- My intestines are now a straight pipe filled with gaseous, sulphuric flames. I crapped myself when I farted and I'm worried it will eat through the chair. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except Sally. She must be kinkier than I thought. Can't feel my lips anymore. I need to wipe my butt with a snow cone.

Chili 7 - Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili

Judge 1 -- A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers.
Judge 2 -- Ho hum, tastes as if the chef literally threw in a can of chili peppers at the last moment. I should take note that I am worried about Judge 3. He appears to be in a bit of distress as he is cursing uncontrollably.
Judge 3 -- You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull the pin, and I wouldn't feel a thing. I've lost sight in one eye, and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My shirt is covered with chili which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants are full of lava like crap to match my shirt. At least during the autopsy, they'll know what killed me. I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful. Screw it; I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch hole in my stomach!

Chili 8 - Tommy's Toe-Nail Curling Chili

Judge 1 -- The perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili. Not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence.
Judge 2 -- This final entry is a good, balanced chili. Neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge 3 farted, passed out, fell over and pulled the chili pot down on top of himself. Not sure if he's going to make it. Poor fella, wonder how he'd have reacted to really hot chili!

This is some really great advice. Thank you all again so much. It's great that a group of people who have been doing this for some time can still remember what it was like the first time and help support someone new.

Califkali, I checked your profile but you have your email hidden. I sent you a pm instead.

Thank you all again for your help.

Thanks for the advice Guide Dog. I was doing some fighting with the padded sticks as well for about three years, but I ended up running out of people willing to fight. I guess even with the nice padded sticks it's a little too much for most people. With all that said, what gear should I bring with me? I know the type of fencing mask I need. That's a question that I have found answered many times in many places. But should I bring gloves as well? What kind would you recommend? I'm really hoping to be able to make it out this September. Even though I don't have a lot of training in martial arts it's something I really want to do and am really looking forward to. Thanks again to you and anyone else that can offer any advice.

Sounds great. I'd love to get out there and train, but I live in Hemet and until I get my current situation with my car worked out I just won't be able to make it. Good luck though. And I hope in the future I can come out and train with you.