Dog Brothers Public Forum

Avi, I can only give you my opinion on this stuff. I have been working security in night clubs here in boston for about the last 4-5 years and this is some great material. I feel that it is a very sound block of training for CQC. I actually have a quick story about using this material in an altercation last friday. 


I had to ask a gentlemen to leave the club after he had consumed, in my opinion, enough alcohol. So while escorting him through the club to the coat check where he would be able to retreive his jacket and leave, we picked up a tag along, his friend equally drunk, but belligernt (sp). While all of this is happening there happens to be a company VP talking to a manager about 5 feet behind us. They don't like to see us bouncers defend ourselves. The possibility of a law suit wakes them nightly.  As the tag along is getting more and more irate at me I assume the kali fence (right foot forward left shoulder) with my hands in that very passive praying hands gesture while calmly explaining that his friend had had too much to drink and was asked to leave, and that because of his actions I was going to be asking him to leave as well. He was not happy about that and his body language had quickly started to change, in this order 1. nervously rolling up his right sleeve 2. distributing more weight onto his right leg 3. turning his shoulders the same direction 4. and finally curling his right hand into a fist. Now I know he was drunk but i wasn't aware that he was a ninja and this was not supposed to be seen. So here I am pleading for space in a nice calm voice, and supprise supprise he throws the big over hand right. I step in with the left foot picking up his punch with my left forarm, and at the same time hacking the side of his neck with the blade of my forarm, making sure that it skidded across the bracial nerve. He dropped to his knees at wich time i was on him as well as a few others controling his arms/legs.

After the altercation I was kind of afriad for my job security. But the VP walked over and commented on how professional I was and that he clearly was the agressor in the situation.

The Kali Fence prepares witnesses. No doubt about it, the fact that I didn't get fired is a testament to that.

Just touching back on this. I love this material. As street realistic as you can find.

This is a very true and very sad thing. Most of the people who are MMA fans have no idea what it is all about. Boxing is big money, those of us who have been around the MMA game for anytime know its def not the case. Even in the case of the UFC, I knew a fighter who about 3-4 years ago got his first fight in the UFC, he was paid 7500 to show and an other 5000 to win. This wasn't an opening card fight either. Granted since then the UFC has quite a bit more money so I'm sure that figure would be different if it was today.  To bring it back to point, a guy who is a professional fighter, no other source of income, puts in close to 16 weeks/4 months prep time for the fight and ends up wih $12,500, even if he fights 3 times a year and doesn't get hurt thats still not a huge annual income.

The mindset of those fighting MMA has changed over the last few years. It used to be for the most part you ended up with driven competitive guys who liked combat as a way to test themselves. With the sucess of TUF and the UFC I have started to see a slide twards more of the jock personality types, as well as with those who just want to hurt someone. This trend really has given me a good perspective on how special the gatherings are. The MMA community is now starting to be populated with people, to use guro crafty's phrase for it, "who are acting out".

Art was right to say that the fighters would do it for free. My first MMA fight was for no money. It was for the challenge, the competition, and just to see if i had it in me to get up infront of a thousand people and put it out there on the line. And I'll say it I liked it, winning with a full house chanting your name. There is something to be said for it.

Forest reacted the way he did I think because he knew he made a mistake and paid for it. He was probibly dissapointed and upset with himself more than just that he lost the fight.

Just my 2cents

Greg

I love this material. Some of the best ideas I've seen in a long time dealing with knife and the empty hands.

                    I had the less the honor of seeing this stuff work for me on the street this past week. Quick run down. 230am bad neighborhood walking my dog. I was approached in a bad neighborhood by and left handed man weilding a knife. He approached and demanded my wallet. From training this material with my guys for the last couple of weeks I felt myself shift into the kali fence. It's very funny how calm you are when this happens. I had trained this stuff full contact with my guys (head butts included) so the idea of the speed in wich the situation would progress was not very strange. at this point i felt a bump at my left leg and looked down seeing Brego(my dog). The man raises and points the knife at my face. Brego targets and gets his first live street bite. inside the arm, with his entire elbow in his mouth. Man screams drops the knife, I out the dog and go home. Brego gets a late night steak for dinner.

                   The moral of the story is that this material works. I belived that in training and when "the fickle finger of fate, tapped me on the shoulder and said "your on"" I felt secure in my life with this material.

c-dog Greg Brown

I've been seeing the previews for 300 and it looks great. Sort of that same filming style that I loved from sin city and added to one of the most amazing feats in the history of warfare. I think this may be an old subject, but Tony Jaa spent time learning the old thai boxing (mae ma muay thai) with some of the trainers at Sityodtong.

Good call on that brian. I have to say knife/bat I would go with the knife. If I had the option of an ASP. A short fast moving stick. I would probibly take the asp.

Greg

I am actually looking at getting Brego(the male) his French Ring Brevet. I run about 45 minutes every morning so he comes with me. But I agree I would never use boots for him. The best thing to do is to let his paws toughen up on their own. His are like sandpaper.

Corso's are such an aloof breed where if he is going to show dominance over some one he will walk up and shoulder check them until they pet him and then he will abruptly walk away either to heel or if off leash anywhere else.

He isn't the type to start fights with other dogs but, he WILL not back down if challenged. Thankfully the bite work has given him a great "out" so he will drop the fight and come to heel. This has only happened twice.

I treat him like an athlete. He runs with me in the morning, he plays with the female at night, 3 days a week he is doing bite work, and another 3 days he does 30 min on the carpet mill. If the SPCA people looked at my house it fits all their critera for someone who fights dogs. I have a springpole in the back, a carpet mill in the house, breaking sticks in the house and in my car. weight pulling harnesses. A dog with a job is a happy dog.

Greg

My only experiance with training dogs is with my 2 cane corsos. Both are being trained for french ring. The crate the the best investment you can get with it comes to dogs. A great book "the art of raising a puppy" has a great crate training method. The redirect is also something that I havce used. Brego and Roxy didn't hear the word no or get a single correction until about 12 months. I was bringing them to the gym from the day I got them. It just takes time to get some dogs used to the gym enviroment. Some dogs never do. I would seek out the advice of a professional trainer in your area. Depending on the dog there might be things that would work for your dog. 

good luck with the puppy. They are a great adventure.


Greg

Well almost every week I get to see the normal drunk guys invading each others personal space wich turns into the obligatory pushing match that morphs into the sterotypical drunk hay makers.

Or as far as it goes with fights involving staff, it is more of a fear reaction, One drunk guy is confronted by someone asking them to leave because they have had a bit too much to drink, and for some reason they decide it is a threat and they will yell and either go out just posturing or they decide it is a good idea to fight.

Triads, this is a bit more complicated. About 6 months ago they started and asian themed hip hop night. With 3 weeks you have rival Viet/khemer/Laos gangs fighting over territory. Those are a bit different. Ususally ending in street violence  with belts/knives. Occasionally you hear the gun shots a couple of min after they get off the street.

Working down there I have been witness to a half dozen stabbings, large scale (20v20) street fights, and belts being pulled into play etc.

In the knife altercations, only one of them was one v one with both parties knowing full well what was going on. everything else has been ambush techniques. one being one guy starts a fight with 5 they eventually get the upper hand and then scatter as he comes up with a knife in his hand ala norman bates, they scatter and he takes off running. Another one happened when we where breaking up one of the triad fights and my manager was holding one guy down, his friend comes walking down the street draws the knife and gets my manager in the back.

These events have without a doubt been a huge influence in my mindset when knives come into play. No matter what you think it is never the guy you see that you have to really worry about. Enviromental awareness is one of the keys to staying alive when "the fickle finger of fate" puts the spotlight on you.

The mindset that has been instilled in me through my exposure to Guro Crafty, has brought me home safe on more than a couple of times. And for that I am forever grateful.




Greg

That is a great way to put it. The majority of the population has no idea how to read the body language of a possible assailant. There are more that just a couple of ques that should set off the alarms in your head.

I was around at the begining of the development of the Kali Tudo material, and found it to be an extreamly effective group of techniques. I was going through the material around the same time I had my first 3 MMA fights and I used the Kali Tudo to my advantage in training against some of my UFC vet training partners. Simply put the techniques from this material work, even again guys who fight at the highest levels.

Greg

I'm not sure if the fight is set yet. As far as kenny turning that fight down, that is untrue. That is what has been said of Kenny for most of his career. But this will def be the most challening fight he has had. But the odds are pretty even he is a phenominal BJJ player, and everyone keeps underestimating his striking. But on the other hand sherk is a freak, so strong for that size. Not to mention the amazing wrestleing. Time will tell

The older and more established camps in thailand all have very unnique style and are usually known for a grouping of techniques that make its fighters unique. Also the older the camp is the more of an influence you see from the ancient forms of thai boxing (more closely related to krabi). This does include alot of elbow strikes not really in many US camps, and even in thailand it isn't taught at many of the camps. Currently pro MT in Thailand is dominated by  a sportfighting style that is not that distinguishable from camp to camp.  

Well that was a rant. The short and skinny of it is that in the US we miss out on alot of really good elbow material in our thai boxing. The rules in the US don't allow the freedom to elbow in most fights, so somethings get lost in translation.

Just my two cents

Greg