Dog Brothers Public Forum

Just happened to catch this on my "dog brothers" Google news search.

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=granada092507.htm

2007-09-25

Granada Takes on Four Titles from Original Productions

LONDON, September 25: Granada International has acquired worldwide distribution rights to four new factual programs from Original Productions: Twister Sisters, Backyard Nation, Our Lives: Dog Brothers and Our Lives: Disappeared.

The 6x1-hour Twister Sisters follows partners in the Twister Sisters Tornado Tour Company in Minneapolis as they head out on the road for their annual pilgrimage in search of the biggest and most destructive tornados on earth.

The 4x1-hour Backyard Nation is the ultimate backyard makeover show, which uses $100,000 in labor and materials to provide lucky homeowners with their ultimate fantasy in over-the-top backyard designs.

The one-hour special Our Lives: Dog Brothers explores the world of underground fight clubs. Twice a year, members from all over the world attend a tribal ritual they call “The Gathering of the Pack,” which is an intense day of head-to-head combat. They wear no protective padding or clothing, other than gloves and a thin fencing mask, and there are no rules, no judges, no referees and no trophies.

 Another one-hour special for sale at MIPCOM is Our Lives: Disappeared. This factual crime show reveals the forgotten true stories of missing children and their families. As the families share their touching stories, the program hunts for clues and memories.

 Emmanuelle Namiech, Granada’s director of acquisitions and co-productions, said: “We are delighted to continue our relationship with Original Productions. An independent company that always finds the most original aspects of our world today and captures them in the most creative and entertaining way for TV viewers.”

© WSN INC. No part of this article can be used, reprinted, copied or
stored in any medium without the publisher's authorization.

Most of what I've seen of the art (which looks very cool BTW) were spinning kicks at high targets (defined as above the ribs), which typically aren't very successful in Gathering fights.  But I think the Capoeira techniques could do a lot of damage in a Gathering if the concentration were on low targets (knees, thighs, ribs).  In general, no art by itself works particularly well at a Gathering unless you spend some time training it specifically for those kinds of fights.

Maybe you were asking specifically what any Capoeira practioners think of the DB material...  I'm just trying to start up some discussion.

Woof Buzwardo,

Maybe you think these snide little remarks of yours ("fat chance", "I expect many will be able to deal with the resultant blank page", "This conciliatory note certainly warms my heart") are oh-so witty and amusing, but they really just make it difficult to have a meaningful discussion with you.

You've been on this forum for a while, so I have to assume you're not just trolling.  Consider this a humble request for you to lighten up on the sarcasm a bit and engage in a mutually respectful discussion.

Rog

How do you act as an accessory to murder while you're in jail?  Seems like the FBI agents who stalled the efforts to search Moussaoui's hard drive and investigate him further before 9/11 were just as much "accessories" by that logic, not to mention a president who basically ignored a daily intelligence briefing entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US".

Also, the prosecutors appear to be taking Moussaoui's confession to being the "20th hijacker" completely at face value, despite statements from supposed high-level planners of 9/11 (who are in US custody) that Moussaoui was judged unsuitable for such an operation and was not involved.  Are they just frustrated that all the actual hijackers are dead and see this as an opportunity to execute somebody for 9/11?

the enemy within-Another example-just like the so called prisoner abuse nonsense -another attempt to discredit the military

As far as I know, it's the USMC that's bringing charges against Pantano.  Is the miltary trying to discredit itself?

Hmm...  I have no problem finding article after article that says what an all-around great guy Pantano is, what a bad precendent it sets for a combat Marine to be charged with murder, as well as presenting some negative characterizations of his accuser, but none that present any real details about the incident.

Obviously the guy is innocent until proven guilty, but I can't imagine why the Marines would prosecute one of their own for murder (during combat no less) without some reason to believe that the charges may have merit.  It's possible that Pantano killed those two Iraqis because of something they witnessed.  I'm interested in hearing exactly what his (supposedly "disgruntled") accuser claims happened.

Rog

Woof,

Just curious as to whether or not anybody plans to fight with nanchaku, bokken, or any other non-stick weapons at the upcoming Summer Gathering.  I'm thinking about doing a mixed-weapon fight this time, if I can find a partner (and the guts to actually go through with it come June 27th).

Rog

While it's good that this cadet is actually being prosecuted, I wouldn't take it as evidence that the Air Force is making any genuine effort to reform itself in this area.  Let's not forget that it took several dozen of these incidents occuring over more than a decade in order for the Air Force's top commanders to finally decide that yeah, maybe they should take this problem seriously.

As was mentioned in one of the articles posted, the female cadet in question reported the incident immediately and was herself reprimanded for fraternizing with older cadets and drinking alcohol.  It's unclear whether or not Meester received any punishment, but I won't be surprised if it turns out that *no* discplinary action was taken against him.

Clearly the top brass knew this was going on.  Why do you suppose they did nothing about it for all this time?

Rog

>Concerning the definition of rape: First, major kudos to Rog for
>providing the source of his data. This is quite rare and I sincerely
>commend him. However he left out the best one of all:
>
>"73% of those forced to have sex fail to recognize their experience
>as rape."
>
>Go look folks! Its right there in his cited piece. I had remembered
>reading this some time ago, but my memory failed me as to the
>asserted number and I thank Rog for providing it.
>
>That said, the thought behind this number is is pretty special and
>takes us into a dimension where rational thought no longer applies.
>It also makes clear the utterly political nature of the data.

Yeah, I have to admit that even I was a little bit suspect of that
particular stat.  However, I don't think it's an attempt to
artificially inflate the frequency with which rapes occur in order to
push some political agenda.  My interpretation is that many victims
of certain types of non-consentual sex are hesitant to call it rape
because maybe they knew the perpetrator, and actually did consent to
doing other "things," but didn't want to have sex.  If the victim is
a child, then chances are he doesn't even know what sex is, let alone
rape.

The point is that we're largely conditioned to see only obviously
forced sex by one or more random psychos (like in the "Death Wish"
movies) as "rape."  It gets more complicated the better the victim
and perpetrator know each other, and how much consentual stuff went
on before it got non-consentual.

>I spent 3 days (and it easily could have been more) in a Mexican
>prison for, as best as I can tell, preventing the rape of two silly
>American cockteasers.

Assuming it went down like you said (and I have no reason to think it
didn't), then yeah, those chicks were pretty stupid, and it's a good
thing for them that you were there.  However, I'm sure you'll agree
that we all do stupid things sometimes (especially when we're young),
and that nobody deserves to get raped just for being stupid.

>As for date rape, I thoroughly agree with the point that there is a
>place where a goodly percentage of men are dangerous. THAT'S RIGHT--
>and that's why if a woman goes there questions are raised-- because
>most women know this. No paradigm shift required.

Sure, it's only fair that questions be raised in that situation.
Questions meant to determine how far things went before she decided
she wanted to go no further, how she let him know and how he
responded, whether or not they were drunk/stoned, and whether she
consented at the time but later regretted it are perfectly
appropriate.  What's not appropriate are questions about her sexual
history, how she dresses, or any other questions intended to suggest
that the perpetrator had some reason to think she implicitly wanted
it regardless of what she explicitly told him.

Rog

Interesting article in the context of our present discussion:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/05/08/hs.hazing/index.html

Two hazing victims say violence was surprising
Girls describe choking, kicking at football game ritual

NORTHBROOK, Illinois (CNN) --Two high school girls who had to be treated at the hospital after a hazing by older students said Thursday they had no idea that what was supposed to be a touch football game was going to be a violent attack.

"I was strangled and choked, and I was kicked in the head repeatedly," Lauren, a suburban Chicago high school junior, said.

Another, junior class member, Marina, said she was "repeatedly kicked and punched," adding "they kicked my tailbone to the point that it fractured."

The girls, identified only by first names, spoke to CNN about Sunday's incident at a local park near here which was supposed to be a touch football game between Glenbrook North High School junior and senior girls.

"This has been a tradition in our school, to play football, not [to] be beaten up and put into the hospital," Marina said.

The girls said they had been told they would not be physically harmed but might have to endure light hazing such as ketchup, mustard and whipped cream being smeared in their hair.

Three other girls were treated and released from Glenbrook Hospital, spokeswoman Karen Ganz told CNN Wednesday. Ganz declined to describe their injuries because the patients are minors.
Attorney compares attack to lynching

Police said criminal charges against the perpetrators could be filed Thursday or Friday. Authorities said an amateur videotape shot at the scene indicates premeditation because some of the attackers had baseball bats.

"We believe there was some premeditation on the part of some of the attackers to go after some specific victims," Rollin Soskin, an attorney representing Lauren and Marina, said appearing with them on CNN's "American Morning."

"Nobody brings a baseball bat or a paint pellet gun to a powder puff football game."

"This was a vicious attack," Soskin said. "This was a lynching."

The tape shows several students huddled together on the ground while others threw objects at them, including large plastic buckets.

One girl walks behind the seated girls and slaps them on the back of the head. Another girl holds up what appears to be an intestine. At least one girl reported having a pig's intestine wrapped around her neck.

Witnesses also reported that urine, feces and fish guts were thrown and others said they had been forced to eat mud.

"Basically it started out as a fun hazing like our initiation into our senior year," said a junior girl who had been injured. "About 10 minutes into it everything changed -- buckets were flying ... people were bleeding. Girls were unconscious."

Dozens of students had come to watch the event and some of them, including male bystanders, joined in.
Principal supports prosecution

The school's principal, Michael Riggle, said Wednesday the school supports criminal prosecution of the perpetrators.

"I feel that the behavior that went on was certainly extreme and I think that it does get into the point of criminal actions," Riggle told CNN. "The school is fully supportive of prosecution at this point."

But, Riggle said, the school's jurisdiction in the matter is "very limited" and it is up to the sheriff's department to press charges.

In 1979, there were problems with powder puff or touch football games and the school discontinued the games, which had been used as fund-raisers, Riggle said. Since then, the matches have been organized by the students.

"Quite honestly, we were shocked as everyone else was when we looked at this videotape," Riggle said.

But, Soskin did not absolve the school of responsibility, saying that although it was not a school-sanctioned event or on school property, school administrators certainly knew the game was going to take place.

The Cook County sheriff's department and the county's Forest Preserve District police are investigating the incident, which happened on Forest Preserve property near Northbrook.

Glenbrook North High School is in Northbrook, a suburb north of Chicago. Riggle agreed with a reporter's depiction of the school's students as being mainly "upper middle class," adding that some 85 percent go on to four-year colleges.

CNN Correspondent Whitney Casey contributed to this report.

>This discussion isn?t new, but it?s always interesting. To address
>the original premise, violence is inherently human regardless of
>gender so I think we can all understand and accept it to a degree,
>such as in the case of a schoolyard fight. I do not, however, think
>it is purposefully encouraged to ?keep women in their place.?

I don't think it's explicitly encouraged, but I do think there are
widespread attitudes among men that:

1) A woman doesn't wear a skimpy or provocative outfit unless it's
because she wants sexual attention from men.

2) There are circumstances under which a woman is obligated to "put
out" for a man.

3) Women sometimes say no to sex when they really mean yes.

Furthermore (and I wish I had a good reference here), some studies
have shown that somewhere between 30-50% of college-age men surveyed
stated that were they guaranteed to face no legal consequences, they
would have no problem raping someone to whom they were sexually
attracted.  Some other studies have shown that men who watch films in
which violence is portrayed as cool or sexy, or in which women are
shown as being turned on by violent men, are more likely to hold one
or more of the attitudes listed above.

Now don't get me wrong here.  I'm not some ultra-PC mamby-pamby type,
and I'm not suggesting that "every man is a potential rapist" or any
such nonsense.  I like (some) violent movies as much as the next guy.
I do think though, that sex is used so often in our society to sell
us things, and is so often equated with things which have nothing to
do with sex juts to get our attention, that it should come as no
suprise that some people have some extremely unhealthy attitudes
towards sex and women specifically.

>I am also a strong advocate of personal accountability and am
>dismayed and thoroughly disgusted by the ?victim culture? that seems
>to pervade the US legal system (anyone recall the lawsuit filed by a
>fat person against McDonald?s for making him fat?).

Do you have any details of the case to which you refer above?  Or are
you simply dismissing it out of hand as "victim culture?"  I myself
thought it was a bunch of crap when McD's was getting sued by some
old woman who spilled coffee in her lap when coming out of the
drive-thru, but after examining the case more closely, the suit
didn't seem as unreasonable as I'd thought.

>Martial arts can be a tool; no more, no less. Its purpose and
>validation as a tool of empowerment depends entirely on the user.

Couldn't agree more.

Rog