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Messages - beatnik warrior

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below is also a good point... i believe studies have shown that the word KALI actually came from a popular Visayan word KALIBANGA'.  i've heard people say that this ancient word has been around since time began in the islands.  i think it has something to do with the water or the food found there.  it's worth looking into...

Quote from: Guest
so KALI is just an arbitrary fussion of two visayan words?

so it could've been KUPA, for KUmo (fist) and PAspas (speed), or maybe LALI, for LAwas (body) and LIhok (movement).

the question is... where's the historicity of this WORD?  if there is none, then just say it's a filipino-american development in the 60s.  and it will be accepted as a new development in FMA.  but, to say something is historical without the minimum of proofs is just silly.


Quote from: Lorna Atienza
Our culture is so deeply entrenched with other cultures that came to the Philippines before, during and after the spanish time. and should we forget that the name for our country "Philipines" came from the name Phillip of Spain? Who knows what our country was called before it was dubbed "Philippines?"
I remember Pop and I discussing where/how the term "kali" was used as an altername for arnis.
Kali is a Goddess(Hindu?)that has numerous arms (about 6 or eight), and each hand ( that is connected to each arm, of course) holds a sword or a weapon. When the movement in arnis/kali/whatever is done, it is so fast and so effective/deadly that it is as if the individual has several weaponed hands. He read this somewhere.
This could have been an opinion of an author. It could have been an Indian author. Who knows?
Does'nt this make sense?

so, now KALI is hindu? that?s kinda reaching it.

Quote from: Allain Atienza
As a Filipino in the United States, surrounded by other cultures and encouraged to investigate one?s own heritage, it?s not good enough to know that ?Magellan brought Christianity and so the story of the Philippines began?? Many of our older countrymen are satisfied with this, yet it is important to delve and research and find out more. Many more young Filipinos are learning the Baybayin scripts (the funny Elvish writing on our website) Many others, when learning that Malay traders sailed as far as Madagascar, are filled with pride, knowing that they come from a race and culture that is not just a bastard offshoot of local Asians and Conquistadors.
So? Kali, or Arnis or Escrima?
In reality, one is just as good as the other, and I use them interchangeably at times. But in my opinion, the term kali, although it may not be as old or established as the other names, carries with it a cultural implication, a leaning towards questions and answers about the deepness our culture.
Now what would be really cool is if someone really researched and found out what we called the Art before the Spaniards came. I?m guessing they just called it ?fighting? Something like ?Laban-laban? Maybe they called it "Bong"

it would be really cool if someone did research, but until then people shouldn?t just arbitrarily use words with no historical support.

and, if it is indeed 300 yrs old, where is the minimum proof?

Then why use Kali over the other names, which have to be at least three hundred years older? (Give or take, I?m bad at math)
Well, I remember being initially taught Arnis de Mano, and everything was fine and happy. But in the late 70?s, the word Kali popped up (I don?t know who started it) and it was well received here in the East Coast. My father, who was ever hungry for any information about the Philippines and our culture before the coming of the Spanish, loved that there was a word being widely used to describe our Art that did not come from our one-time conquerors. I never learned that it was ?older? or more ?accurate? than Arnis or Escrima, only that it didn?t originate from Spain. There were others who resisted the new term, who clung to the older nomenclature, feeling that it was more traditional. Yet many students of the Art, most of them young and swept up in the cultural self-awareness that was just gaining momentum in the 70?s, embraced the alternative out of cultural pride.

i just visited the Atienza site and found the thread you were referring to, russ.  i took the quotes above and posted it here, to make a point that even the ones who use the word KALI do not even know how they came to use this word.

this relates to the whole issue of historicity. now, of course this doesn't take anything away from their skill.  and we are not attacking their art, but instead trying to figure out where and how the title KALI began.

now, if the one's who readily use the word KALI do not even know the origins of this word, then it's pretty easy to deduce that this word isn't the 'ancient' name, but rather an unacademic attempt to rename and 'filipinize' FMA here in the US, to replace the spanish terms already in use since the 1700s in the Philippines.

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