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Messages - Tordislung

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1
I'm glad you asked. No British law was broken. They broke American law...which mandated a 13-0 unanimous vote. When did that happen? That's politicians breaking AMERICAN law. 1787.

Rhode Island had declared nationhood.


Patrick Henry and others were adamantly against it.

It was the elite (those with coastal access to trade) attempting to set themselves up and they did.

Respect? Surely you jest.

By the way....every legal agreement you'll enter into, in your life requires a signed contract. Where's the contract you signed agreeing to this set of laws? In fact... Have you ever seen anyone sign a contract of the sort, expressing explicit consent, as happens with ANY other legal transaction?

The Constitution having authority? It pretends to protect rights through empowering itself by stripping individuals or their rights. Consent? Never granted by anyone other than the signatories.

Doug... Better yet... Since the Constitution is not the founding document of this country...nor even are the Articles of Confederation, as the Declaration of Independence was finished first..and war being declared before the Articles were even finished.... It is the defacto founding document of this country and not anything else.

The Declaration speaks to "just power" obtained by consent...
And those that do not consent? What is the option for opting out? If there is no option, there can be no consent. If there can be no consent, there is no just power.


"If no right is "absolute," then a constitution, illegally drafted, and never consented to, by anyone other than the authors....even less."


Am I missing the humor or do we have a Libertarian with no respect for the constitution here?

Did they break British law when they drafted it?  Was it not ratified?


"This principle mistake of this country is in thinking that the Constitution ever had any authority."   - ?

2
While GM and Tordislung are busy being snarky with each other, I would like to add to my answer above:

As the military/police power of the State increases, so too must the the ability of the people so as to maintain their ability to overthrow it should it become necessary.

Wholeheartedly agree.

3
The right is absolute until you give it away....by attempting to deprive another of theirs.

Still absolute.

Modifying this to cite an example that others also hold this view.
https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/absolute-rights

Really any government position is meaningless, as all governments require a consent that in practice, is absent; which, is why I earlier stated that the rights are absolute to the individual, because any wolf will quickly justify why the sheep's life doesn't matter, so long as they retain the upper hand. This, is a given.

Rights are absolute, or they aren't "rights," and they remain that way, until one attempts to take another's, and are only surrendered to that other, while the moment of aggression exists. As soon as the aggression is over, so os the offering of the right that was being surrendered.

I've no doubt that others will disagree, but that goes to prove my point.... Lysander said a lot about this...

If you're already saying that rights are not absolute... Then why even bother using the term? To do so is dishonest. Call them what you think they are - privileges given to the subjects of a ruler.

:D
How can one use deadly force in self defense if the other party has an ABSOLUTE right to life?

Maybe something we picked up at work. Maybe not.

At least as much as you do, it seems.



4
Maybe something we picked up at work. Maybe not.

At least as much as you do, it seems.



5
You don't like answering questions, do you?

If someone murders your loved one, do they have an absolute right to their life?



Not to repeat myself, GM....but to repeat myself.... Is the right to life absolute? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.... The smoke cloud attempting to distract a clear act of aggression and pawning it off as freedom of speech isn't what we're discussing here.

We're discussing defense of self. I'm confident that you can grasp that without attempting to twist it into child porn.

Is the right to life absolute? Yes or no?
 
So, if there is an absolute freedom of speech, then would that include the freedom to publish child exploitation media?

In my LE career, I deal with more than a few individuals who were in the system for such things. One individual was charged for possessing images of a 4 year old being violently sodomized. Was this individual wrongly imprisoned?



If no right is "absolute," then a constitution, illegally drafted, and never consented to, by anyone other than the authors....even less.

Edit: great article GM.

To me... Rights are absolute...to the individual. Im fairly certain that everyone views their right to life that way, regardless of what another might think. I know I do. You don't view your right to life as "absolute?" Doug? Crafty? Your wives' lives?

Fair question. Is their right to life absolute? Because... If theirs and your right to life is absolute.... then so is your right to defend it, against any enemy, including when that enemy is dressed in a uniform, pretending to have dominion over you.

6
Not to repeat myself, GM....but to repeat myself.... Is the right to life absolute? A simple "yes" or "no" will suffice.... The smoke cloud attempting to distract a clear act of aggression and pawning it off as freedom of speech isn't what we're discussing here.

We're discussing defense of self. I'm confident that you can grasp that without attempting to twist it into child porn.

Is the right to life absolute? Yes or no?
 
So, if there is an absolute freedom of speech, then would that include the freedom to publish child exploitation media?

In my LE career, I deal with more than a few individuals who were in the system for such things. One individual was charged for possessing images of a 4 year old being violently sodomized. Was this individual wrongly imprisoned?



If no right is "absolute," then a constitution, illegally drafted, and never consented to, by anyone other than the authors....even less.

Edit: great article GM.

To me... Rights are absolute...to the individual. Im fairly certain that everyone views their right to life that way, regardless of what another might think. I know I do. You don't view your right to life as "absolute?" Doug? Crafty? Your wives' lives?

Fair question. Is their right to life absolute? Because... If theirs and your right to life is absolute.... then so is your right to defend it, against any enemy, including when that enemy is dressed in a uniform, pretending to have dominion over you.

7
If no right is "absolute," then a constitution, illegally drafted, and never consented to, by anyone other than the authors....even less.

Edit: great article GM.

To me... Rights are absolute...to the individual. Im fairly certain that everyone views their right to life that way, regardless of what another might think. I know I do. You don't view your right to life as "absolute?" Doug? Crafty? Your wives' lives?

Fair question. Is their right to life absolute? Because... If theirs and your right to life is absolute.... then so is your right to defend it, against any enemy, including when that enemy is dressed in a uniform, pretending to have dominion over you.

8
Politics & Religion / Re: Libertarian themes
« on: November 12, 2020, 06:52:11 AM »
In my humble view, you do everything you can to stop the takeover of socialism, fascism, totalitarianism in this country or you are complicit. Each get to choose how to fight it, but if you don't do everything you can to stop it, you are complicit, IMHO.

Denial that they (the Left) are burning our country down is a difference of opinion.  "Let it burn" is being complicit.

Two-thirds of those who voted Libertarian for president in 2016 switched to making the binary choice in 2020. 3/4hs of those lean Trump over Biden, Republican over Democrat. By this metric, the "we" that T speaks of, broke for the binary choice.  Only the last 1% did not.  Now it looks like the last 7 states were decided by far less than 1%.

The losing party, Republicans in this presidential race it appears, don't have to worry about how to split up the spoils of victory with the different members of the coalition. That problem goes with the winners, the party of coercive paternalism with central government making what used to be your individual choices for you.  Opposite of libertarian.

Solid point. Will address later today.

9
I'll try this question a third time.  Is there any reasonable restriction on the right to bear arms that is constitutional?  How extreme do we need the example to be in order to agree there is a line - somewhere?

From NK thread:  "NK has 15 to 60 nuclear weapons and hundreds of missiles"

Can Jeff Bezos have this (in America), private stock on private property? Is any law that restricts this an unconstitutional abridgement of an absolute right?

No. There is no reasonable restriction.
Also, the Constitution has no inherent authority. It never has..

Fundamentally.... Bezos having nukes is no different than Soros, Rothschilds et al and their connections.

There can never be "reasonable" restrictions because the right to defend one's life is always greater than someone else's right to their idea of "safety;" in that, "safety" is intangible, or even a fabrication....a lie.... whereas the ability to protect oneself against tyranny, is not.

One of the root causes of this problem, is the view that the Constitution ever had any validity.

The first constitution..."the Articles of Confederation," stipulated a unanimous vote. There was never a unanimous vote, nor a public debate...in the adoption of a new Constitution or creation of an executive branch of government....so we have fruit of the poisonous tree.

You know it.

Even if the Constitution did carry weight... It still isn't the origin of our Rights. The Declaration of Independence makes that clear.

Then... The entire implied, tacit, and explicit consent arguments....

There is no reasonable gun control. Ever.

10
Politics & Religion / Re: Libertarian themes
« on: November 12, 2020, 05:55:18 AM »
The Leftist totalitarian policies are not something any libertarian endorses. Libertarians don't get blamed for the overstepping of either major party, anymore than the Right gets blamed for the Left - as it should be.

11
Politics & Religion / Re: Libertarian themes
« on: November 11, 2020, 09:43:30 PM »
The leftist coast is crushing the libertarian interior of Oregon in a dozen different ways, yet you think because of drug legalization freedom is winning?


https://www.theepochtimes.com/libertarian-ideas-are-great-voting-libertarian-self-defeating_3574826.html

Someone else expresses this view.


Roger L. Simon is an award-winning novelist, Oscar-nominated screenwriter, co-founder of PJMedia, and now, a columnist for The Epoch Times. His most recent books are “The GOAT” (fiction) and “I Know Best: How Moral Narcissism Is Destroying Our Republic, If It Hasn’t Already” (nonfiction). Find him on Parler and Twitter (for now)

Yale educated Liberal masquerading as a conservative because he didn't like the OJ verdict.

Our votes just had "real world implications."

I'll end there as to show the requisite amount of respect.

Edit: it bears mentioning, that Libertarians pilot many of the freedoms you're seeing enacted now.

Johnson ushered in legalized marijuana.
Jorgensen ushered in legalized drugs in Oregon.

You'll see more of it.

Libertarians play the long game. It works.

"2020: Arizona, Montana, New Jersey, and South Dakota approve ballot measures to legalize recreational cannabis. Mississippi approves a ballot measure to legalize medical cannabis. South Dakota voters also approve medical cannabis."

Odd. I don't see the "Leftist Coast" in any of that. I'll leave the "dozen ways" ambiguity out of it and speak with specifics.

Libertarians' most powerful weapon of enacting process is by doing exactly the opposite of what Simon says to do, and by actively holding Libertarian votes hostage....until Republicans or Liberals yield.

This tactic is frequently used in countries where three party (or more) politics is the norm. I suggest adherents of the Right and the Left here, accustom themselves with it. Terribly effective.

12
Politics & Religion / Re: Libertarian themes
« on: November 11, 2020, 09:19:59 PM »
https://www.theepochtimes.com/libertarian-ideas-are-great-voting-libertarian-self-defeating_3574826.html

Someone else expresses this view.


Roger L. Simon is an award-winning novelist, Oscar-nominated screenwriter, co-founder of PJMedia, and now, a columnist for The Epoch Times. His most recent books are “The GOAT” (fiction) and “I Know Best: How Moral Narcissism Is Destroying Our Republic, If It Hasn’t Already” (nonfiction). Find him on Parler and Twitter (for now)

Yale educated Liberal masquerading as a conservative because he didn't like the OJ verdict.

Our votes just had "real world implications."

I'll end there as to show the requisite amount of respect.

Edit: it bears mentioning, that Libertarians pilot many of the freedoms you're seeing enacted now.

Johnson ushered in legalized marijuana.
Jorgensen ushered in legalized drugs in Oregon.

You'll see more of it.

Libertarians play the long game. It works.


13
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 11, 2020, 10:25:08 AM »
Tordislung:

The culture of this forum is different than the snarkfests so common elsewhere. 

https://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=961.0


Tuhon Crafty,

I'm not being "snarky," and I have respect for everyone here.

Doug and others have mentioned that Libertarians should support Republicans, even when they trample the 2nd Amendment.

The ATF is actively interpreting and dictating what legislation will be, a job for the courts and legislative branches respectively - this... from the current Republican administration.

I've not called anyone any names, nor told them how they should vote. I backed up what I have to say with facts.

Trump and his ATF are dismantling the 2nd, and if they're going to do that, they neither get credit for defending it nor our votes. Perhaps, the Republicans will learn to include more libertarian principles in their actions if they want to earn our votes. It's a fair challenge.

14
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 09, 2020, 12:45:26 PM »
From unresponsive to obnoxious.  They're not 'both of my parties' and I'm not here to discuss wrecking the place or letting it burn.

I wonder if Q regarding Honey Badger, considers the ATF's letters as of late, "obnoxious?" Courtesy of Trump... The party you seem to be on board with.

Red flag laws....when no law has been broken..   Is that "obnoxious" too?

Earn our votes. It's people just like you Doug....changing your attitude and conveying that to your leaders, that gets the job done. You've no one to blame but yourself.

You know.... Biden and more specifically Harris ...theyre going to trash this place. Time is running out.

15
100% they cheated. Everybody knows it. They've had congressional hearings on the software....etc...etc....etc...

I voted Libertarian and make no apologies.... Still....

That election was rigged as s..t. But....what's anyone going to do about it?

I feel like it's the United States of Zimbabwe...because....it is.
We all know it.

16
Politics & Religion / Re: The War on Drugs
« on: November 09, 2020, 06:44:09 AM »
The War on Drugs appears to be over.  Drugs have won.

I'd submit that Freedom won.

17
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 09, 2020, 06:40:03 AM »
Not answering your questions? My apologies. I thought I had.

"How many did you bring to the table?"

Zero - we dont garner enough votes to elect our own. Ask Crafty. He'll tell you, being that he's run three times... Hence... We've defeated not one of your candidates....

It appears that you have this illusion that we owe you our support. We don't. We vote our principles....

If everyone votes to jump off a cliff...and the others vote to stand in the rain and catch pneumonia, we're not obligated to support either of them.

Did Trump support gun control? He did. Four years ago...you didn't support Trump.... You have to give a little to get a little...the drug war finally being called in Oregon.... Liberals certainly caught our attention with that. The Right might try that....you know...actually supporting the freedom that you PRETEND to represent.

Hope that's clear....because BOTH of your parties shun freedom on a regular basis.

You want our support? Do something to earn it. Otherwise....let the whole thing burn. It's your parties that set it on fire anyways.


T - You  write nicely but are unresponsive to my questions.  That's okay.   - Doug

60 votes all Democratic in the Senate to pass Obamacre, 2010.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00396

There are no Democrat Senators who would join hypothetic R Senators to repeal any gun "safety" law and there will NEVER be 60 Republican or Libertarian Senators if the movements are divided.

The "52" you refer to in 2016 include McCain, Murkowski, Collins, Flake and Corker.  That leaves 47 to support a good bill.  How many did you guys bring to the table?  Zero, nothin', nada.  You defeat Republican Senators in places like Montana and then wonder why good bills don't get passed and bad laws don't get repealed.

18
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 08, 2020, 05:50:02 AM »
Control of the Senate is 60 votes FYI and he didn't lose anything in the election, we did.

Trump will have armed security for the rest of his life.  We won't.

2016.     
House - 241/194 Republicans/Democrats
Senate - 52/46 Republicans/Democrats


Obamacare (controversial.... They still got it to pass)
2010
House - 242/193 Republicans/Democrats
Senate - 51/47 Democrats/Republicans
https://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=party&Sort=ASC
They could have easily done away with with several gun laws. They CHOSE not to.

The irony of people not caring if others being stripped of their arms (felons who have completed their sentences and red flag people) , now being worried of being stripped of their arms (you), has not gone unnoticed.

Trump allowed the previous to happen. It cost him support. I certainly made every Trump supporter I could, aware of it. Many of them were shocked. I had to quote Trump repeatedly, because they couldn't believe he said it - "Take the guns first....due process second." DJT - super clear..

You're right that you might not have your weapons.... You weren't worried about it when others didn't. Now you are?

Principles. They matter.

Edit: Doug, refresh my memory. What's that story about...."first they came for such and such...and I did nothing....then they came for (x) and I did nothing....then they came for me?"

There you go. That is every gun law.

19
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 07, 2020, 02:16:10 PM »
I don't know what Trump was thinking banning guns....red flag gun laws...bump stocks....honey badger....ATF making long barreled pistols illegal...two years of House and Senate control....zero gun laws repealed...when he acts the same as Democrats.... He's got to know that's got a price tag..

21
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 02:28:03 PM »
"Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?

Many on the right, even here and now, do what I've just mentioned, and then you expect support?

Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

"Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them."

little dramatic don't you think!

so vote libertarian and vote your principles - your funeral
BTW you did not answer my question


I asked so what should we do and I get some vague platitude about principles

and what rights do you speak of besides guns that you do not own?

There was nothing dramatic about that at all. It was a legitimate question. You disenfranchise people, expecting them to obey you, and then get upset when they obtain a voice against you, because they managed to jump whatever imagined hurdle you've placed in front of them?

I did answer you. I clearly stated....every person needs to answer that question for themselves... Or.... Do you require others to hold your hand when making decisions for yourself?

Rights? If I had weapons... I wouldn't broadcast it... Setting that aside... Whether I have them or not, is immaterial...as...the failure to exercise a right does not negate its existence.... Does it? Does the failure to exercise a right mean that you should be deprived of it, counselor?

The Right routinely strips people of their rights in terms of the 2nd amendment, they hate being called on it....enforced by police who pretend to support the 2nd amendment, when really... They support a more draconian system of government, so long as them or their cohorts (the Left), remain at the helm....

There are really only two types of people that support that.... Both Right and Left....

Those who wish to remain in a position of advantage or those who wish to be given handouts by the government.... Libertarians in general...want neither. Why would you think they'd support that?

As for answering what you or others should do? I'm not in the habit of holding people's hands.... That's the worst way to help them. You'll figure it out.

Drama? An impending 3rd civil war is pretty dramatic.

22
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 11:40:13 AM »
Don't know what CD felt about you then, and don't care.  Only know what I know, which as I age, becomes more apparent that I know nothing at all.

I like Socrates too.

 
It's no dodge. What wasn't clear about that?


I am NEVER turning in my guns. Can you say that?


I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.


I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

Quote from: G M link=topic=2647.msg129788#msg129788
date=1604689475
You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?


I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment?
Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

GM... Federal, state or county law enforcement (particularly the former).... That's the only way you're keeping your guns....

You refuse to answer how Republican gun control isn't gun control....and divert to "Beto."

Me? I would never own weapons. Some criminal would likely break in and steal them.

That doesn't negate that the Right is no friend to the 2nd amendment. They attack it routinely, and then pretend as though they're different from the Left. Police do that too.
"Show me your permit" from something that "shall not be infringed," while they're porting arms themselves....doesnt get more hypocritical than that.

23
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 11:15:34 AM »
Nice dodge.
Cheers.
I'm not a republican, and I'm not happy with being sold out by either side.

I am never turning in my guns.


I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

Quote from: G M link=topic=2647.msg129788#msg129788
date=1604689475
You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?


I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment?
Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

24
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 11:07:42 AM »
I believe I asked first.

How have the Republicans not been Beto?

In regard to the trampling the 2nd Amendment....
Republicans > Beto

Being that they already stomped on it and Beto just wants to catch up.

Am I lying?

Quote from: G M link=topic=2647.msg129788#msg129788
date=1604689475
You are avoiding my question. Ready to turn in your guns?


I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment?
Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

25
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:57:13 AM »
My guns were lost in the Sacramento River during a boating accident. They all went overboard.

The day Crafty made me a dog... He had strict misgivings regarding this. Now it's acceptable?

Principles.
I'm glad that you have them. I do too.

26
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:53:44 AM »
I don't blame you for not answering....because we both know that you can't....so you attempt to misdirect.

Ever watch them do the shell game in the street? Teaches you everything you need to know about people, once you catch on.

And thusly ends the Libertarian support of Trump.

Are you going to turn in your guns when Beto is Biden gun control czar?

GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment?
Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

27
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:32:11 AM »
Which part is dramatic?

The parlance.

My sincere condolences.

28
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:28:00 AM »
GM... I highlighted the pertinent portion of it for you.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/politics/joe-biden-gun-control-plan/index.html

"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment?
Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

29
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:15:23 AM »
Well, I have conceded the election. SCOTUS will not side with Trump, no matter what. They do not want to see the debacle to come in civil unrest if they do.

The America of my youth is gone forever. Just a distant memory now. Never to return.

The 4th Turning has shown where it is leading. A socialist America for a decade at least, then who knows?

In the meantime, I shall just hunker down and make my little carve out of life as comfortable and easy as I can, until my expiration date hits.

That's a little dramatic.

30
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:07:40 AM »
"Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends."

I don't follow you

how did he and the party do that
he trampled all over your right to exist?

Red flag gun laws
Bump stock bans
ATF interpreting legislation without voter input.
Two years of House, Senate, and presidential control = ZERO REPEALED GUN LAWS

What....in any of that ☝is pro 2nd amendment? Please point out where I'm mistaken, without using "the Democrats would be worse," as we're talking about the Republican side of the street.

I'll wait.

31
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 09:03:29 AM »
besides voting for a candidate that has zero chance of winning (or qualifications to be president IMO)
what do you recommend I do so my rights do not get trampled by Democrats or Republicans ?

Each person has to answer that for themselves.

Principles. They matter.

If someone (I love Trump's economy), betrays those principles, you can't support them.

The FIRST principle....above all others... Is the right to guarantee one's existence. Sine qua non.

Without this.... Nothing.

Trump stepped all over that as do Republicans in general and have for over a century.

That's a dealbreaker....because we all know where it leads to and ends.

32
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 08:43:08 AM »

I was not trying to be dramatic
but your wording , probably not intentional is ambiguous

Completely intentional and in line with the usage of the word as referenced here: (definitions numbers two and four - noting their example citing a political use) https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/die

"\ ˈdī  \
died; dying\ ˈdī-​iŋ  \
Definition of die (Entry 1 of 2)
intransitive verb

1: to pass from physical life : EXPIRE
died at the age of 56
die young
died from his injuries
a dying tree
2a: to pass out of existence : CEASE
their anger died at these words
b: to disappear or subside gradually —often used with away, down, or out
the storm died down
3a: SINK, LANGUISH
dying from fatigue
b: to long keenly or desperately
dying to go
c: to be overwhelmed by emotion
die of embarrassment
4a: to cease functioning : STOP
the motor died
b: to end in failure
the bill died in committee
5: to become indifferent
die to worldly things
die hard
1: to be long in dying
such rumors die hard
2: to continue resistance against hopeless odds
that kind of determination dies hard
die on the vine
: to fail especially at an early stage through lack of support or enthusiasm
let the proposal die on the vine
to die for
: extremely desirable or appealing
the dessert was to die for..."

Completely intentional and within the legal parameters of usage.

Perhaps lodge a complaint with Merriam and Webster.

____________


If you dont expect support from Democrats or people who don't vote, why do you expect it from us?

33
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 08:18:22 AM »
if you are stating that felons , once they "paid their debt to society"

should have right to vote

I do actually tend to AGREE ;  indeed, Trump at least had signed and pushed legislation to get felons back into society and not keep them locked up . ( I am not sure I agree with this and in my opinion it is risky  but time will tell who in the end is right )

I don't agree with rich Democrats paying for their fines in return for their promise to vote fo Democrats
Naturally James is not shelling out money so people will vote for whomever, including Trump or for that matter Jorgenson

" Free from bump stock bans, unconstitutional red flag laws... while the government helps itself to more of your rights"

I am not sure who is doing this if not Democrats

Trump was working towards the opposite
If you want to talk of national debt and Trump made it worse not better - we have all posted here on this board that it is a major concern

Not sure what you mean by this:

" Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?"

ARe saying my consistent trampling of rights to die - or ME?

" Alrighty then. It's your funeral."

let me get this straight - is this a threat?

Of course it's not a threat. I have no idea who you are.

Ideas whither away and die with time.

Don't be coy for dramatic effect.

Ps. You conveniently skipped the questions regarding your expectations of democrats to support you or those that didn't even vote.

Nice.

Edit II: Libertarians.... We adhere to the non aggression principle... Unlike Republicans and Democrats. Just saying.

34
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 06, 2020, 07:36:59 AM »
The Libertarian in name only (IMHO) party attracted more votes than the winning margin in all the crucial swing states.  Yet they lost most of their support from 2016.  1.2% of the vote, down from 3.2%, does not win elections, attention, build a movement or fund a party.

Where was the Green Party with an allegedly moderate Democrat at the top of the 'progressive' ticket?  Absent?  0.2% of the vote.  Why?  They wanted to win.  L party?  They want to lose.  Lose elections, lose liberties, lose support.

Or... They want to be free.... Free from bump stock bans, unconstitutional red flag laws... while the government helps itself to more of your rights.

Tell me, do you get upset at the Democrats for not supporting your party lines? What about the people that didn't even vote?

But you're upset with 1.2 million people because they have their own ideals, or the nerve to vote in their own interests?

Totally being respectful.... It's just that it seems that you think the Republicans can do the aforementioned, and still think that they have a right to our support?

You're DEAD wrong about that.

Also... CCP the other day... Going on about felons who had served their sentences, who now are law abiding and pay taxes... Not being able to vote.

Have you considered the possibility that maybe it's time for your consistent trampling of rights, and the ostracization of others, to die?

Many on the right, even here and now, do what I've just mentioned, and then you expect support?

Alrighty then. It's your funeral.

Edit: More correctly...the funeral of the Republican party and outdated ideals. You've had centuries to get it right.

35
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 04, 2020, 03:27:37 PM »
https://www.theorganicprepper.com/selco-surprise-shtf/

Paradise!

Yes, true Libertarian eutopia! Living in the shattered ruins of a burnt-out country. No oppressive government, except the gangs and warlords, of course.



"... gets us back to freedom faster by forcing a reset..."

That is a logic string I can not follow.  Make things worse to make things better, lose your freedoms in order to gain them back.
-----------
If someone else pays your debt to society, have you paid your debt to society?

Some tears are to be expected.
People never cede control willingly nor with a light heart.

Seen worse. Still prefer freedom. Sooner or later the Right and Left will have to learn that they're not the ones that dictate things.

Ps. Americans don't really know what it is to fight a war on their own soil. Some of us do. To live with it...every day.

Good article though.

36
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 04, 2020, 02:00:27 PM »
Yes, true Libertarian eutopia! Living in the shattered ruins of a burnt-out country. No oppressive government, except the gangs and warlords, of course.



"... gets us back to freedom faster by forcing a reset..."

That is a logic string I can not follow.  Make things worse to make things better, lose your freedoms in order to gain them back.
-----------
If someone else pays your debt to society, have you paid your debt to society?

Some tears are to be expected.
People never cede control willingly nor with a light heart.

37
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 04, 2020, 01:55:34 PM »
"... gets us back to freedom faster by forcing a reset..."

That is a logic string I can not follow.  Make things worse to make things better, lose your freedoms in order to gain them back.
-----------
If someone else pays your debt to society, have you paid your debt to society?

"Debts to society."

Let's see the contract that was signed. I trust you have one. It's the basis of every legal agreement.

It should include mutual assent, expressing offer and more importantly, acceptance....

Do you have any of that?

38
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 04, 2020, 11:42:03 AM »
you are entitled to your opinion

and I will keep mine

I don't like celebrities paying other peoples fines to vote for Democrats
comprende

BTW , you voted your conscious

feel better
you will have a lot of liberty under Kamala Harris

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. You're not making friends. That's a necessary component of winning elections, but by all means...keep shunning people...it pushes them right to the people you disagree with....even children understand that.

"President" Harris? If it gets us back to freedom faster by forcing a reset... Im all for it.

Apparently... Some people will have to find a different way to get a paycheck in Oregon these days.... Freedom....and less taxes....who would have thought those liberals would pull that off? I certainly didn't.

Maybe... You should have voted for Jo instead of thinking we should vote for your guy. You wasted your vote.

39
Politics & Religion / Re: rich pay off felons fines so they can vote
« on: November 04, 2020, 10:35:49 AM »
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lebron-james-michael-jordan-help-bloomberg-pay-felons-fees-florida-amendment-4-voting-rights-election-day-024025571.html

Bloomberg. once a democrat than an republican then an independent

now a democrat globalist elitist

I don't know what he is. frankly

self described problem solver

always in way that helps his businesses.

Have they completed their sentences?
Are they law abiding?
Do they pay taxes?

Anything outside of that, is an infringement on their rights, IF society expects them to be self supporting and abide by the laws.... If not.... They don't owe anyone any allegiance at all. Why would they? You've shunned them.

40
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: November 03, 2020, 09:10:09 PM »
Just AZ close but should be a win.

Or not.

Either way, this country has bigger problems than whoever wins this election....but everyone in this country intuitively knows that.

41
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 30, 2020, 02:55:50 PM »

If the goal is to help the Left win and take all our liberties, the 'Libertarian' wins.

You act as though President Trump and Director Regina Lombardo aren't currently doing that.

Didn't the ATF just issue a letter that potentially turned people into felons overnight (assuming they dont feel like sending their AOW's SBR's and pistols to the ATF for a 6-12 month, "points test")?

Sometimes, things have to get worse, before they can get better.
I'm not being smug. I don't know who will win. I know that both major candidates trample the 2nd amendment and I'll have no part of it. Line in the sand if you will. Throw the baby out...bathwater is cold.

Also old....is the Right thinking they're owed Libertarian votes and that it's never going to be reciprocated.

The whole thing going to hell in a handbasket is solid win at this point, being that BOTH Right and Left are seeking to expand big government..

Some in this country, remember what it was like to be free; others sadly, have forgotten or no longer care.

Biden, Harris....just as Hillary would have and Obama did, will force people to care.


"Shall not be infringed." Every gun law is illegal. Every single one.

My thoughts. Let it go the way of Rome. It will sooner or later anyways.

Edit: Looking back....nothing's changed... under Trump, ATF investigations immediately went up more than 10%....
The lie that the Right is somehow pro 2nd Amendment (evidenced by the finger pointing at Biden's Beto), needs to end. The right actually executes gun control more often and more effectively.

https://mises.org/power-market/jeff-sessions-wants-confiscate-your-guns

42
Politics & Religion / 2020 Election Texan Voter Turnout
« on: October 30, 2020, 09:22:12 AM »
The voter turnout in Texas has already surpassed 2016's turnout.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-exceeded-entire-2016-vote-141400521.html

Doug, I live back and forth between two locations.

Crafty... Woof.

GM. Indeed the case in terms of opportunity.

43
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 29, 2020, 07:04:25 AM »
"Biden 70,000,000
Trump 70,000,000
Jorgensen 7,000,000 = solid win"

Math correction, IMHO, evenly divided electorate
Biden 70 million
Trump 63 million
Libertarian 7 million
Double digit, landslide win for Biden.  L is the spoiler, not the winner.

Closer to reality:
Biden 70 million
Trump 69,999,999
Libertarian   1

Solid victory for whom? Only the one they inaugurate.  Neither scenario advances my liberty, or yours.

If you can build a libertarian party to be bigger than today's R party WITHOUT losing everything we have to the Left along the way, great. But you can't.

Libertarians don't control the R party, why?  They don't have enough support.

Make the issues argument all day and all night long, year round and throughout the election, but don't help the left win while saying you care about liberty. Makes no sense in my view.

Leftists more clever than us try to get Libertarians on the ballots siphoning off  votes from conservatives.  Know your enemy.

One example:  https://www.propublica.org/article/in-montana-dark-money-helped-democrats-hold-a-key-senate-seat

Result: D +1, R -1, L = 0  One vote swung in a divided US Senate is a big deal.

Im new here, so I won't enter the fray other than to say, we'll see What the numbers bear out. That is, if one can trust the count. ;)

Sometimes, it's a race to zero, that is first necessary to achieve a victory.

44
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 29, 2020, 06:29:14 AM »
Where would our gun rights be if Hillary was running for her second term right now? Any rights for that matter?

With an armed populace dissolving the American version of the Cheka/NKVD would be my guess. The Russians did it and they weren't even armed.

45
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 29, 2020, 06:19:44 AM »
"pretends to be pro 2nd amendment."

   - Appointed 300 judges and 3 supreme court justices who will uphold the constitution including the second amendment.  That is libertarian.  Joe Biden will do the exact opposite.  If you're not doing everything you can legally to stop him, you're working against your own stated interest in my opinion.  Only one person can beat the Left anti-liberty, anti-gun candidate.  Like it or not, that is Trump.

Correcting your math, if you vote Jorgenson, whoever that is, the score will be closer to something like this:
Biden 70 million
Trump 70 million
Jorgenson 1

Others here have been libertarian.  Plenty of other people have been frustrated with the two parties, Trump ran against the two parties, but the people who actually get elected do it from inside the two parties. Trump knows that. Rand Paul knows that. Bernie knows that.  AOC and Omar know.  Ralph Nader doesn't.  These crucial elections to save the country turn binary. There are two possible winners and there are footnotes.  You don't advance what you say you care about by letting the Left win and pass laws, screw up the judicial system and undermine our rights and liberties.

My humble opinion.

Odd... Can't find the Whig party anywhere. Why is that?

"Take the guns first....due process second." Donald Trump Smacks of constitutionality.
As does every other infringement upon it.

Lincoln... Also third party.
The Soviet Union ceased existing with roughly the passage of nine hours. Biden nor Trump are going to cause the world to stop spinning. Four million years of Hominid existence...will continue. Queue the scene from Monolith 2001... We're still here. 5% of the vote and federal funding for elections is a victory, so we're not tallying numbers the same.
Biden 70,000,000
Trump 70,000,000
Jorgensen 7,000,000 = solid win.

Edit: Bears mentioning that even Trump himself...was and is an outsider....still won...readily acknowledged elsewhere here, in this same site.

GM:
And... You didn't. You voted for who you felt the appropriate choice was.
Excellent. Was just going over Socrates' thoughts on democracy and voting.

Then again... They executed him... What do I know?

46
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 28, 2020, 02:39:15 PM »
Also

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/16/minnesota-democrat-switch-trump-election

Interesting poll and article. Thank you.

It will be curious to see how the election between Trump, Harris and Jorgensen, turns out.

47
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 28, 2020, 02:09:30 PM »
A vote for Jorgensen is a vote for Biden then. 

Fortunately, far more Dems are deserting Biden for Trump.

No. A vote is a vote.

If one casts a vote for Jorgensen then the count looks like this:

Biden 0
Trump 0
Jorgensen 1

Especially when federal funding for future elections is involved. Has always been interesting how supporters of either major party seems to tally a vote for a third party, as support for the other major party.

There is a center of the universe. Neither major party is it.

Best of luck.

Edit: Just curious, do you have a source to your claim that more democratic are abandoning Biden for Trump, or is that conjecture? Not being rude. Honestly curious.

48
Politics & Religion / Re: 2020 Presidential election
« on: October 28, 2020, 01:38:16 PM »
FL 211k early votes now separate

Reps closed gap by 36k already today.

At this pace, by Tues morn, all will be about equal.  Of course, depends upon who the Indies come out for.

Personally... I voted Trump last time. With his attacks on the 2nd Amendment though, I'm definitely voting for Jorgensen this time. Ive seen several who have this attitude - "take the guns first....due process 2nd."
Two years of House and Senate control, zero gun laws repealed. Reauthorized Patriot Act....pretends to be pro 2nd amendment.

Jorgensen wont win...but she's only aiming for 5% to get federal funding.

Still, Trump didn't do himself any favors with people that used to support him.

50
Politics & Religion / Re: Lind: 4G War
« on: October 26, 2020, 01:29:41 PM »

When the Constitution was drafted and ratified, none of the men involved ever imagined that life in, say, Massachusetts and South Carolina would become the same. Still less did they conceive that the Constitution gave the federal government authority to make them the same....

This principle mistake of this country is in thinking that the Constitution ever had any authority.

Lysander Spooner makes an excellent argument as to the Constitution having no authority in his essay "No Treason."

This country is going to the way of balkanization and there is no stopping it.

"Security forces..."

Several more powerful grasps have been broken in countries that enjoyed absolute gun control. The security forces....aren't.

The Bear Went Over the Mountain....and The Other Side of the Mountain... Great books.

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