Author Topic: Citizen-Police interactions  (Read 253291 times)




G M

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DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, Minneapolis, Uh oh
« Reply #504 on: May 27, 2020, 05:09:47 AM »
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/26/mpd-chief-arradondo-4-police-officers-fired-following-death-of-george-floyd/

And Minneapolis just finished rebuilding from the Justine Damond riots...

Yes, I wonder who pays for this stuff...

What was the right way to hold him down, not a knee on the neck?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions
« Reply #505 on: May 27, 2020, 07:18:20 AM »
We are having a big discussion about this case on DBMA FB.  All the LEOs there are agreed-- this was fuct up.

Here's an intelligent discussion by a friend of friends-- a man with serious track record-- of the Arbrey case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9PQjo2tJ-g&feature=youtu.be

DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, Minneapolis brutality case
« Reply #506 on: May 28, 2020, 07:59:39 AM »
Last time this happened the cop was black [Somalian-American] and the victim was white foreign national.  Here the video shows the cop is white, the cop watching is white and the man being held down who died is black.  The race of the other two cops? I don't know yet.  [The four officers fired are identified as Derek Chauvin, Thomas Lane, Tou Thao and J. Alexander Kueng.]
-----------------
"The issue isn’t racism, it is incompetence."
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/05/death-in-minneapolis-revives-blacklivesmatter.php
-----------------
Twitter feed inside the riots and looting:
https://twitter.com/KyleHooten2
It makes perfect sense if you offended by race apparent police brutality that you vandalize or rob the privately owned stores in your area, or the precinct station that already fired everyone involved.



Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, George Floyd 911 call
« Reply #508 on: May 29, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »
Operator: 911 what's the address of the emergency?
Caller: This is ah 3759 Chicago Ave.
Operator: How can I help you?
Caller: Um someone comes our store and give us fake bills and we realize it before he left the store, and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car. We tell them to give us their phone, put their (inaudible) thing back and everything and he was also drunk and everything and return to give us our cigarettes back and so he can, so he can go home but he doesn't want to do that, and he's sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he's not in control of himself.
Operator: Okay, what type of vehicle does he have?
Caller: And .... um he's got a vehicle that is ah ... one second let me see if I can see the license. The driver license is BRJ026.
Operator: Okay, what color is it?
Caller: It's a blue color. It's a blue van.
Operator: Blue van?
Caller: Yes, van.
Operator: Alright blue van, gotcha. Is it out front or is it on 38th St.?
Caller: Ah it's on 38th St.
Operator: On 38th St. So, this guy gave a counterfeit bill, has your cigarettes, and he's under the influence of something?
Caller: Something like that, yes. He is not acting right.
Operator: What's he look like, what race?
Caller: Um, he's a tall guy. He's like tall and bald, about like 6 ... 6 1/2, and she's not acting right so and she started to go, drive the car.
Operator: Okay so, female or a male?
Caller: Um...
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy?
Caller: (Talking to somebody else) — he's asking (inaudible) one second. Hello?
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy that did this?
Caller: It is a man.
Operator: Okay. Is he white, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: Something like that.
Operator: Which one? White, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: No, he's a black guy.
Operator: Alright
https://www.insider.com/minneapolis-pd-release-call-transcript-in-george-floyd-arrest-2020-5

DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, Medical examiner, George Floyd
« Reply #509 on: May 29, 2020, 05:29:42 PM »
The full report of the ME is pending but the ME has made the following preliminary findings. The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/05/medical-examiner-george-floyd-wasnt-asphyxiated.php :?

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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Re: Neck hold was approved policy
« Reply #511 on: May 29, 2020, 10:01:34 PM »
https://www.lawofficer.com/neck-hold-used-by-minneapolis-officer-was-approved-by-department-policy/

Wow! I am very surprised to read this. None of the training I ever had would have approved of this technique. Pinning a shoulder is quite different than placing weight on the neck.

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Neck hold was approved policy
« Reply #513 on: May 30, 2020, 02:58:15 PM »
https://www.lawofficer.com/neck-hold-used-by-minneapolis-officer-was-approved-by-department-policy/

There it is.  This doesn't make anyone innocent but it the elements required here be the central issue in the trial.  0% of the protesters in this 100% liberal controlled city are aware that knee on the neck is an approved and trained hold for police to use in their city in a narrowly defined situation.

From the link:
http://www.minneapolismn.gov/police/policy/mpdpolicy_5-300_5-300?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=8028deff4535b493725eb649d36c3b7e00941797-1590851457-0-AYmLk4y8QkESEAP-vrNGC-RkLNDU2TPuK3Z5gng_Xjo1--QI2QTH4vC-cIHQSl8UQ-pioW8NOuxAzUlPxDSDSg5nbwSC3K5l4h2yCpj23lE4SinjYdQ5dh-XpxfLPcmdi1gGYW_vtLI-alrCoF7w7TL6C8JNzhuzbC3jGBZ0siyij-YoHczuAnwwj9O8zaDE0Jx6QWMtg7-BtxW1Wvsfi4l5qHL_T1J_5ZN745fxc6DefO8MP0qn1RlpNtbUKP9BxPwt03BEqWQp2P_n1y43tyOPVZHTmXt4_qHsg1boSQpfaVe5Yn84xPS9gGtn0AZStQ
5-311 USE OF NECK RESTRAINTS AND CHOKE HOLDS (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

DEFINITIONS I.

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

PROCEDURES/REGULATIONS II.

The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting. (04/16/12)
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: (04/16/12)
On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or;
For life saving purposes, or;
On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy. (04/16/12)
After Care Guidelines (04/16/12)
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.

DougMacG

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Re: Minnesota Derek Chauvin
« Reply #514 on: May 30, 2020, 03:52:23 PM »
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf

Many examples of Floyd resisting in the complaint. 

"As Officer Lane began speaking with Mr. Floyd, he pulled his gun
out and pointed it at Mr. Floyd’s open window and directed Mr. Floyd to show his hands. When Mr. Floyd
put his hands in the steering wheel, Lane put his gun back in its holster. "
   - Implies resistance before defendant arrived

"Mr. Floyd actively resisted being handcuffed."

"Officers Kueng and Lane stood Mr. Floyd up and attempted to walk Mr. Floyd to their squad car (MPD 320) at 8:14 p.m. Mr. Floyd stiffened up, fell to the ground, and told the officers he was claustrophobic. "    = resistance

"The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of squad 320 from the driver’s side.  Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds."
    - Major resistance

While standing outside the car, Mr. Floyd began saying and repeating that he could not breathe.
    - This was before being on the ground, before the knee to the neck.

"The defendant pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m. and Mr. Floyd went to the ground face down and still handcuffed."
    - Either resistance or medical or intoxication drop.

"Kueng held Mr. Floyd’s back and Lane held his legs."
    - Implies resistance.
--------------------------------------------------------
The part bothering most people as much as the visual of the knee to the neck:
**Mr. Floyd said, “I can’t breathe” multiple times**
But he was breathing, right? Multiple times.

"The autopsy revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had
underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely
contributed to his death."

The Complaint reads like a defense exhibit.  I'm not taking the officer's side but the trial is not the slam dunk that people think.

Crafty_Dog

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« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 05:17:58 PM by Crafty_Dog »

Crafty_Dog

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Crafty_Dog

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Heather Mac Donald: The Myth of Systemic Police Racism
« Reply #518 on: June 03, 2020, 08:30:03 AM »
The Myth of Systemic Police Racism
Hold officers accountable who use excessive force. But there’s no evidence of widespread racial bias.
By Heather Mac Donald
June 2, 2020 1:44 pm ET

George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis has revived the Obama-era narrative that law enforcement is endemically racist. On Friday, Barack Obama tweeted that for millions of black Americans, being treated differently by the criminal justice system on account of race is “tragically, painfully, maddeningly ‘normal.’ ” Mr. Obama called on the police and the public to create a “new normal,” in which bigotry no longer “infects our institutions and our hearts.”

Joe Biden released a video the same day in which he asserted that all African-Americans fear for their safety from “bad police” and black children must be instructed to tolerate police abuse just so they can “make it home.” That echoed a claim Mr. Obama made after the ambush murder of five Dallas officers in July 2016. During their memorial service, the president said African-American parents were right to fear that their children may be killed by police officers whenever they go outside.


Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz denounced the “stain . . . of fundamental, institutional racism” on law enforcement during a Friday press conference. He claimed blacks were right to dismiss promises of police reform as empty verbiage.

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing. Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.

The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.

The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.

Ms. Mac Donald is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and the author of “The War on Cops,” (Encounter Books, 2016).

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, charges upgraded
« Reply #520 on: June 04, 2020, 05:01:27 AM »
https://www.fox9.com/news/3-other-minneapolis-police-officers-charged-in-george-floyds-death-chauvin-charges-upgraded

Looks like riot incite AG Ellison wants the mob to hear the words 'not guilty'.

DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions, Heather MacDonald, WSJ, not systemic
« Reply #521 on: June 04, 2020, 05:03:09 AM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883?mod=markets_trending_now_article_pos1
In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
---------------------------------------
Study referred to in above article:
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877
« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 08:56:51 AM by DougMacG »





Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions
« Reply #527 on: June 08, 2020, 06:21:52 AM »
As Minneapolis votes to end the knee to neck restraint as a legal, trained, published, accepted tactic - AFTER - the death of George Floyd, doesn't that lose this soon to be all important court case for them? 

https://www.startribune.com/good-riddance-to-neck-restraint-tactic/571059552/

Worst case for the officer IMHO, he is guilty of the manslaughter charge, which means a Not Guilty verdict for the two higher charges including intentional murder, and a Not Guilty verdict for at least two of the other three officers.

Meanwhile, the state government who has taken over the prosecution of this case and elevated the charges to intentional murder lists George Floyd as a COVID death casualty. 

In this mess, we have:
George Floyd who was too intoxicated to stand up, sitting in the driver's seat on a city street now named for him, resisting police,
the officer who mis-applied a trained procedure to the wrong situation with a worse than bad outcome,
officers in training helping him,
the state government who classify people who died with COVIDsame as people who died of COVID,
protesters chasing a false narrative,
inflamed by dishonest media,
in a City who votes to disband their police department,
and a state AG who elevated charges to the point of absurd.

Who is the incompetent one here?

All of the above.

Crafty_Dog

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G M

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Wave goodbye
« Reply #529 on: June 09, 2020, 07:17:14 PM »

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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Re: Nothing business, it was personal: Chauvin & Floyd
« Reply #531 on: June 10, 2020, 09:00:40 AM »
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

So much of what happened we still don't know.  Why did two other officers also feel the need to help hold him down too.  The initial complaint says active resistance.  Why were so many sent to the scene of such a small crime.  There is much more footage we haven't seen.   They knew they were being watched, had to know they were being filmed.  Who called the ambulance?  When?  Why?  Because he was unarrestable by 4 officers and additional Park Police on scene in his condition and with his resistance.

The only hint of race being a factor in the incident is a bystander saying it's because he's black.  The hold is a shin, not a knee?  The hold was justified while he was resisting but not justified after the resistance stopped?  Isn't that too late if the hold was the cause of death?  The deceased had meth, opioid intoxication, Covid, hypertension and  exerting "active resistance" to the arrest.  Did his active resistance contribute to the death?  What percentage, enough that he wouldn't have died if he hadn't resisted? 

The deceased has both good and bad stuff on his background.  Same for the officer.  All previous complaints were dismissed. TwinCities.com (St. Paul paper) reported in 2008 that Chauvin "received a department medal of valor for his response in an incident involving a man armed with a gun.”

https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/derek-chauvin/
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 11:44:53 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions
« Reply #532 on: June 15, 2020, 09:15:19 AM »
Police brutality epidemic?


https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/chronicles-of-the-crazy-times-4.php

Believe it or not, the United States is arguably underpoliced. At least compared to European nations. On a per capita basis, the United States has one-third fewer police officers than the European average.
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/06/underpoliced-and-overprisoned-revisited.html

Crafty_Dog

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DougMacG

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8431801/Rayshard-Brooks-probation-faced-going-prison-charged-DUI.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/06/18/brooks-floyd-deaths-police-misconduct-not-always-racist-column/3206372001/

Another "gentle giant"?  What a whole bunch of these incidents have in common is that the apprehended, who is resisting, is so much bigger and stronger than the arresting officers.  To me, those facts, big, strong and actively resisting arrest, are much more relevant to the situation than race.  Obviously, if he hadn't resisted, he'd be alive.  Also, if he was of ordinary size and strength and resisted, he would have been subdued rather easily by the two officers willing to wrestle him to the ground, and he would likely be safe in police custody facing one extra charge for resisting, instead of dead.

Lies of the media inciters:  He was shot for being asleep in the drive through.  Or he was shot in the back while fleeing?  He was shot while firing a disabling weapon at the officer who shot him.  If he was just "fleeing", he would have been shot.  Why lie, except to incite and fit a narrative.  And what the hell did race have to do with it?  Just that everyone in the story has a race if have to put people in these categories. If it takes falsehoods to fit the narrative, maybe the narrative is false.

If we're going to second guess everything, maybe drunk driving laws shouldn't apply to people who are asleep in their car. - on private, commercial property.  Maybe the .08 law is the wrong measure of drunk.  This guy wasn't that intoxicated, but was headed back to prison if arrested.

I don't want to live in a police state full of all kinds of unnecessary laws  for victimless crimes.  But worse yet is to live in a society where the forces of the street thugs are more powerful than law enforcement.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Citizen-Police interactions
« Reply #536 on: June 19, 2020, 05:36:03 AM »
Looks like FB is blocking me from posting this on the DBMA FB page:
===================

Nir Maman
14 hrs ·

Lately, I have been tirelessly getting dragged into ‘debates’ on Police application of lethal force, by of course, none other than the social media tactical force science guru experts who simply know nothing as it relates to Policing, because well, their Policing training and experience comes from the CNN Police academy!

The funny thing is, when you call these buffoons out on the fact that they’re not qualified to even form an opinion on the matter, they throw a tantrum, then a hissy fit, then they de-friend and block you on Facebook! LOL!

In any event, there absolutely are more than enough people on here, who don’t come from the profession of Law Enforcement profession that have legitimate questions, which I am always more than happy to take the time to answer when I can to help better educate people on the realities of our profession.

One such subject that has come up quite a bit in the past week, is the subject of Police Officers “shooting someone in the back”.

There’s a lot more that should be presented on the subject, but in short, here is an explanation I provided to hopefully help people understand how it ends up that subjects are shot in the back **in justifiable Police shootings**:
(And yes, there sure is some attitude on my part that seeps through in my explanation, for as I explained, unfortunately too many people believe they can formulate opinions and judge on subjects they know NOTHING about. And well, that’s not only irresponsible, negligent, and dumb...but it’s also frustrating)
—————-

The arguments on the subject of ‘Officers shooting a subject in the back’ is one that way too many people latch onto while having absolutely ZERO knowledge, experience, or intellect on all the variables that factually occur in a dynamic stress induced life and death situation.

People allow themselves to look at freeze frames of an unfolding and rolling dynamic scenario, from a third party point of view, where in addition to lacking any of the expertise and training on how to assess and address that scenario from beginning to end, they are also entirely deprived of all the emotional, physiological, psychological, and human factors that each Police Officer is bound by, given that we’re always a human under that uniform before anything else, and while entirely deprived of all those crucial factors, think they can decide what has factually happened.

Without going into the many variables that goes through an Officer’s mind and physiology when they’re in that exact moment of pulling the trigger on an individual that has just attempted to incapacitate or kill you, I will explain what happens to these subjects that end up getting shot in the back:

Legally, There are quite a few scenarios that on face value warrant an Officer shooting a subject in the back, with intent to shoot them in the back, when the subject has demonstrated that they have the intent and means to kill someone (including the Officer) and they are still fully capable of carrying out that threat while they are running and may potentially be able to enact their deadly force on any other person reasonablly accessible to them immediately or potentially if they manage to get away from the Officer.

That said, in practically every single case where you see a subject shot in the back, the moment in time the Officer pulled the trigger, the subject did not have their backs turned to the Officer.

The transition between a point where an Officer is facing a subject’s empty hands and where suddenly one of those subject’s hands is now holding a gun pointed at the Officer’s face, happens in milliseconds.

There are seconds added to an Officer’s ability to perceive that change in the subject’s behavior, process the sudden existence of a deadly threat in that scenario, and respond physically (which takes seconds).

All this while the Officer has to also contend with the immediate impact of life and death stress which affects us in numerous physiological ways.

Take all the above, and now add what the vermin scumbags do:

When scumbags pull guns/weapons on us, 100% of EVERY SINGLE TIME, it’s for no other reason than because they committed a crime, we caught them, they’re about to go to jail, as far as they’re conserned they are not going to jail, they have made up their minds that they are willing and going to kill us in order to escape, and then, they put all that into kinetic action.

When they enact their deadly force (or threat of) against us, they usually do so while also beginning the process of RUNNING AWAY!

When they run away...they turn and face away from us.

Sometimes, they

1. fire their weapon at us,

2. stop firing,

3. then turn, and

4. run.

however, where as you’re reading those last four steps in four separate actions separated by comas, in real life, those four steps are dynamically executed in as close to one continuous motion. Meaning, it all happens at once, especially to the perception capability of the human facing the subject who is enacting all those steps against him/her.

Somewhere within those four steps of action being enacted by the subject, the Officer perceives, analyzes, and produces their weapon to return fire to save their lives.

All this happens in fractions of seconds!

And the two sets of actions (the subject’s and the Officer’s) take place at varying points in relation to one another....but the order never changes, it’s Officers who react to the subject’s decided upon actions.

Additionally, as the human mind’s reaction process will always dictate, it takes an Officer as much time and processing to identify that the subject’s behavior has changed...i.e: the subject has now turned, the subject has stopped shooting at the Officer, the subject’s weapon arm has lowered or has turned away, to name a few.

Because of how dynamically all this unfolds, it is sometimes entirely unavoidable to shoot a subject in the back.

It is not the Officer who shoots the subject in the back, but the subject who dictates by decisive action against the Officer, that the Officer will have to shoot them, and once putting the Officer on that course of action, the subject ends up turning their back to the Officer during the Officer’s enactment of his/her life saving actions.

In other words, it’s unavoidable. This is why practically every single case you see in the news of an Officer shooting a subject in the back, the Officers are deemed to have justifiably applied lethal force and are cleared by the investigation.

There are also the incidents, more than enough of them that occur, where subjects actually intently and continuously shoot at the Officers while running away...meaning their backs are constantly exposed to the the Officer throughout the lethal exchange both ways.

As it specifically relates to the Atlanta incident with Officer Rolfe: brooks was running away, he demonstrates more than enough of the requisite variables that he was an immediate threat to the safety and life of the Officers, he disarmed one of the Officers (was now in known possession of a weapon - a deadly only one his hands), made it clear from the moment he began resisting arrest that he was willing to escape the law at any cost, was actively running away from the Officers, turned and fired the taser at Officer Rolfe’s face while still actively running away, began to swing his arm back towards his front as Officer Rolfe deployed his firearm and fired.

There are numerous extenuating circumstances here as well, such as the fact that Officer Rolfe may have reasonably not known if the weapon brook’s discharged at him was in fact the taser he took from the Officer or a handgun he may have had concealed and accessed while running.

It was a 100% ethically, morally, and legally justifiable shooting by the Officer, and he will end up being acquitted, if those charges aren’t even dropped before it reaches court.

People need to stop judging and reaching conclusions on subjects they have no business judging. Period.



G M

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Crafty_Dog

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Re: That car sure looked like a motorcycle , , ,
« Reply #541 on: August 05, 2020, 04:33:16 AM »
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

"I totally understand that anger, and don’t want to diminish that anger, but I will say it wasn’t a profiling incident. It was a hit that came through the system"

The problem IMHO is presumed guilty police tactics.  Police should, in my view, shoot the plate scanner or the radar gun AFTER they observe the vehicle do something wrong, not shoot every car just for being there.

G M

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Re: That car sure looked like a motorcycle , , ,
« Reply #542 on: August 05, 2020, 02:22:54 PM »
ALPR (Automated License Plate Reader) cameras are usually always on. Officers with the technology will cruise through parking lots and find lots of stolen cars, warrants.


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

"I totally understand that anger, and don’t want to diminish that anger, but I will say it wasn’t a profiling incident. It was a hit that came through the system"

The problem IMHO is presumed guilty police tactics.  Police should, in my view, shoot the plate scanner or the radar gun AFTER they observe the vehicle do something wrong, not shoot every car just for being there.

G M

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Re: That car sure looked like a motorcycle , , ,
« Reply #543 on: August 05, 2020, 05:35:08 PM »
ALPR (Automated License Plate Reader) cameras are usually always on. Officers with the technology will cruise through parking lots and find lots of stolen cars, warrants.


https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

"I totally understand that anger, and don’t want to diminish that anger, but I will say it wasn’t a profiling incident. It was a hit that came through the system"

The problem IMHO is presumed guilty police tactics.  Police should, in my view, shoot the plate scanner or the radar gun AFTER they observe the vehicle do something wrong, not shoot every car just for being there.

https://www.theiacp.org/projects/automated-license-plate-recognition