Other Weapons

[Crafty_Dog]

Woof all:

This thread is for the discussion of weapons out of the ordinary.

I'd like to kick things off with the Three Section Staff.  In the clip of the 2011 Tribal Gathering (currently on the front page) we can see C-Gong Fu Dog wielding this unusual and challenging to use weapon to good effect.  Today here in Bern I worked with C-GF on his TSS game a bit .  It will be interesting to see how things go tomorrow. 

The Adventure continues!
Crafty Dog

PS:  C-Mighty Dog:  C-GF gives his thanks for the TSS you gave him.  Methinks you may come to regret this generous deed

[C-Mighty Dog]

Hahaha! I'm glad he likes it. I am having K.I.L. make me a custom Cane for next time. One with a bigger hook. I look forward to seeing how C-Gong Fu's 3 sectional skills progresses. Hopefully he learns to fight in Corto range with it so the fights become much more technical (Frankly, am tired of being taken down )

[Dr Dog]

Woof - we have a guy coming to the next minigathering in New Braunfels next Saturday who has a strong muay thai background and he was asking about mae souks (spelling) and asking if anyone would be willing to fight him with that. He had a pair with him that looked pretty scary - sharp hard wood edges - has laceration written all over it. As the sponsor, I advised him I really thought that particular pair at least was not a good idea. I'd rather not be stitching people after EVERY one of these....

 I'm wondering if anyone has any RCSF type experience with Mae Souks other than Top Dog's double knife fight, and do they make these with more rounded edges so that a hit is not a guaranteed cut?  They look vicious for the inside game.

Rick

[Crafty_Dog]

There is a mai sowks fight in #6 of the RCSFg series, with Salty Dog fighting, ,, Shark Dog I think it was.  Due to healthy respect fot the MS, Shark work a hard helmet and not a fencing mask.

For the record, I turned down Salty's invitation to fight his MS, a decision I do not regret-only I am responsible for me after all.  IMHO even more than that the sharp edges issue is that even with rounded edges IMHO a punch with this weapon can readily break ribs and/or lastingly reduce IQ.

[Dr Dog]

Thanks Guro. My thoughts also about the high damage potential with MS. Perhaps TOO much of a learning experience, especially since our gatherings are fairly new here and I'm trying to broaden our base of fighters, not scare them off! At least, not yet!

Rick

[C-Mighty Dog]

yeah Rick, maybe at  Tribal Gathering where the fighters have a "learning" mindset and not "reactive". I fear that a person...any person..who hasn't fought enough in a Gathering would lack the control or ability to "hold back" when they need too in the adrenaline state. You would see things used in the Tribal that you wouldn't see in an "Open". Such as Aluminum Swords and dagger fights which has a high likelihood for massive damage due to PSI (pounds per square inch)increase. Mae Sowks have been brought up as weapons in previous gatherings. I guess it depends on the person using them. You have to fight a person with that minset of "Pushing" but not "Breaking". Hope you have a great "mini" gathering bro. Let me know how the Mask works!

[Mider1985]

id like to see how a really good professional uses a whip

[C-Mighty Dog]

I know of a Whip professional (who gets paid to do shows)that is also a Pekiti Tirsia Instructor under Sled Dog (Andre Tremblay). He has taught GT Leo Gaje Jr. the whip also. He states that the whip is only good for show, as it is too slow and easy to counter. I spent the week with him learning it, and picked it up pretty easy, and would have to agree. Unless you have a braided metal handle to swing like a nunchuku, it is nothing more then "dramatic".

[c - Shadow Dog]

I personally use the latigo as a ranged weapon and have a second weapon for in close encounters " daga or barong  is what i use in play as the second weapon".   That being said i have no talent and very little fighting experience with the latigo, it strikes me that without the mask and with the daga as the primary weapon it seems a potent risk to your vision at long range and in combination with the blade if available something i wouldn't discard out right.   I was am curious of the whips properties as a lubid type tool once across by a man that is wise in these things.

yip

Dog Terry

[Gong Fu Dog]

I'm planning to use a Chinese nine section whip at the next Gathering. I promised Crossover Dog to bring a different weapon...

[C-Mighty Dog]

I'm planning to use a Chinese nine section whip at the next Gathering. I promised Crossover Dog to bring a different weapon...

Well.. I hope you take that dagger off the end!      I look forward to seeing it in action

[Gong Fu Dog]

For sure my brother...everything will be Rattan 

[c - Shadow Dog]

C gong fu

As you train the 9 secton whip do you trian it with the "idea" of a blade at the end or do you train it strictly as a flexible impact weappon?

I would be intrested in a taste of this at the spring tribal if you were so inclined?

[Gong Fu Dog]

Dog Terry, actually there is no blade at the end. Just in some movies they use a blade 

It is "just" a pointy piece of steel which is thicker, and so also heavier, than the other pieces of the whip. So it is mainly a flexible impact weapon. And I'm planning to use it like an impact weapon. For sure the weapon will loose a lot of it's potential if it is build just out of Rattan...still I wanna give it a try!

For sure my friend, it will be a honor for me to dance with you using this weapon!

[Dr Dog]

Woof Dog Terry -
Latigo? I googled this and all I'm coming up with is a wide leather strap used for cinching a saddle. Its that what you are fighting with?

Perhaps fighting with the entire saddle.....nah, to hard to pack in from Texas.

Rick

[C-Mighty Dog]

What?...Dog Terry is fighting with horse whips? Is a Stripper Pole needed for this fight? If he wears a Tassel bra I'm game for a dance

[c - Shadow Dog]

Chips dips chains and whips   

[Gong Fu Dog]

What?...Dog Terry is fighting with horse whips? Is a Stripper Pole needed for this fight? If he wears a Tassel bra I'm game for a dance

You just want him to wear Speedos...and just that you know my brother, I will wear some oldschool Vale Tudo Speedos when we dance     

[bigdog]

I feel like we are 2 seconds away from hearing: "Bring out the Gimp!"

[C-Mighty Dog]

C-Gong Fu my brother,   LMAO!!!!!! That's awesome! I can't believe that you would do that just for me! You know that secret fetish I have for Guys in tights shorts!

[Gong Fu Dog]

C-Gong Fu my brother,   LMAO!!!!!! That's awesome! I can't believe that you would do that just for me! You know that secret fetish I have for Guys in tights shorts!

In Germany we say: Real love just exists between men  For you my brother I would do mostly anything....especially if I can hit you with my 3SS at the same time hahahahahahahaha 

[C-Mighty Dog]

Through my life, I have studied many systems of combat in depth and long periods of time. Sometimes while teaching one system, I am training/learning another style. I am not a "collector" of rank, but rather a person seeking to close as many "holes" as I can. One or twice, I've had conflict with what was "learned" in one style, and what is being "taught" in another. There was a profound impact in the early 90's when I was a high ranking Kempo teacher, and started my journey into FMA. Kempo stick and knife defense (Gun, don't even get me started on the gun defense) was impractical. I knew this NOW, since training in FMA. I truly believe that in order to understand defense from something, you have to understand it's potential. When you don't know better, you can't question. Kempo people don't "specialize" in stick nor knife use. This brought on an Internal conflict. How can I teach something that I didn't believe in and knew better? This argument went all the way to the top. Needless to say, I left the organization never to return.

So, Thomas C-Gong Fu Dog and I have been talking about his use of the 3SS in the Gatherings. God help us all if he ever learns to use that thing like an FMA person does.  Let me clarify...no way do I mean that C-Gong Fu Dog become a Kali guy,...he is after all C-"Gong Fu" dog for a reason. I mean that once he figures out how to use his weapon in the Medio and Corto range (close-combat range)...we're in trouble. Thomas had stated that he has never used it in combat before, only for forms. I told Thomas to get a padded 3SS and start sparring with it on a weekly if not daily basis.

I know that all weapons come from Warfare, and has a purpose...way before it was made into an "art".
So my question is: When does one determine how effective any weapon is? Most of us will "give it a go" with odd weapons or 2 at the Gathering, only to state that "it doesn't work well". Most of us do "Stick Work" everyday and spar with it on a weekly basis.
What if we Had no choice (like training with your weak hand), and HAD to master another weapon?...Nunchuku , 3SS, Sarong..whatever. At which point, you then have to also break down...Is it the weapon or user? Since none of us swing the Stick the same way either, one person might be "better" suited for a particular type of weapon over someone else.
I look forward to your take on this  

[Gong Fu Dog]

I personally think that not every weapon is "made" for every user....you have to find "your" weapon/weapons.

Besides there are weapons which are easy to use, and others which requires some "skills". Please don't get me wrong, for sure you need skills for every weapon!!

But if you take for example flexible weapons, you have first to learn how to handle those weapons, before you ever can think about fighting with them.

There are also some other aspects like height, strength and even the character of the user. Especially if we talk about Chinese weapons. In an old book which is written by a General of the Ming Dynasty, he describes which criteria they used in the military to decide which guy should use which weapon.

[Spartan Dog]

...In an old book which is written by a General of the Ming Dynasty, he describes which criteria they used in the military to decide which guy should use which weapon.

I'd be interested in hearing a bit more about this...

[Gong Fu Dog]

C-Spartan Dog, I will try to cut it short:
The name of the General is Qi Jiguang. In his book he describes which criteria he used for his troops:
-age
-body type (height and strength)
-character(he calls them "bloodthirsty)

Some examples: A guy who is forty years old will be healthy and will still have some strength, but his agility is not the best anymore. So it would make no sense to give him a "Round-Shield", where he should be kneeing most of the times, crouching on the battlefield, and than move fast as lighting...
A young guy will not have the strength to carry a heavy long pole weapon the whole time and also fight with it...
Soldies which are bloodthirsty should fight with short weapons...

In Chinese Martial Arts the body type was always an important factor for choosing the right weapon:
Short and powerful-Some heavy double weapons or a heavy saber
Tall and not so strong-maybe a Spear
Tall and strong-a heavy long pole weapon like the Guan Dao
Short and weak-maybe a sword

I hope that helps a bit 


Woof!

[G M]

C-Spartan Dog, I will try to cut it short:
The name of the General is Qi Jiguang. In his book he describes which criteria he used for his troops:
-age
-body type (height and strength)
-character(he calls them "bloodthirsty)

Some examples: A guy who is forty years old will be healthy and will still have some strength, but his agility is not the best anymore. So it would make no sense to give him a "Round-Shield", where he should be kneeing most of the times, crouching on the battlefield, and than move fast as lighting...
A young guy will not have the strength to carry a heavy long pole weapon the whole time and also fight with it...
Soldies which are bloodthirsty should fight with short weapons...

In Chinese Martial Arts the body type was always an important factor for choosing the right weapon:
Short and powerful-Some heavy double weapons or a heavy saber
Tall and not so strong-maybe a Spear
Tall and strong-a heavy long pole weapon like the Guan Dao
Short and weak-maybe a sword

I hope that helps a bit 


Woof!

Cool info!

[C-Mighty Dog]

That's a cool assessment C-Gong Fu Dog. But what about me.. an Aged, Short, "Gimpy", half strong, half coordinated fighter? I fear that I am resorted to a Beach Towel as a fight weapon. 

[Spartan Dog]

C-Spartan Dog, I will try to cut it short:....

Some examples: A guy who is forty years old will be healthy and will still have some strength, but his agility is not the best anymore. So it would make no sense to give him a "Round-Shield", where he should be kneeing most of the times, crouching on the battlefield, and than move fast as lighting...

This is what I was looking for..an overall idea of what lines he was thinking along..thanks for elaborating on this 

[Gong Fu Dog]

That's a cool assessment C-Gong Fu Dog. But what about me.. an Aged, Short, "Gimpy", half strong, half coordinated fighter? I fear that I am resorted to a Beach Towel as a fight weapon. 

C-Mighty Dog, besides the fact that such an experience Fighter like you would already be a General, I think that Double Sabers or Double Swords would fit you well. Or maybe a Chinese Walking Cane  BTW, I got a really nice one of those...you would love it 

[C-Mighty Dog]

That's a cool assessment C-Gong Fu Dog. But what about me.. an Aged, Short, "Gimpy", half strong, half coordinated fighter? I fear that I am resorted to a Beach Towel as a fight weapon. 

C-Mighty Dog, besides the fact that such an experience Fighter like you would already be a General, I think that Double Sabers or Double Swords would fit you well. Or maybe a Chinese Walking Cane  BTW, I got a really nice one of those...you would love it 

you flatter me brother! Chinese walking cane...tell me more, where can I see one, and possibly get one?

[Gong Fu Dog]

If you scoll down here, you find a pic from the Damo Guai
http://www.shaolin-quan.de/html/en/kungfu_weapon.html

And here you see it "in action"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0onvP8QlzI0

I got no Idea where you can get one...but if you find one, please let me know.