DBMA Martial Arts Forum > Martial Arts Topics
Has anyone ever seen a real Kali fight?
Crafty_Dog:
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Who in FMA wants to categorize their art as sport? Kali, the mother art, and Arnis and Eskrima, her bastard Spanish children are all combative. However as time passed some of them became dance or sport.
I watched a dogbrothers movie and Leo Giron specifically expresses his interest in turning the art into a sport.
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That would be the video "The Grandfathers Speak" with which we open the series "Dog Brothers Martial Arts". My purpose was to begin the series showing respect to some of the grandfathers who brought the Art to us here in America.
IIRC, we begin the video with GM Giron saying "Eskrima is the science of bolo knife fighting, but we use sticks so nobody gets killed."
Again IIRC his comments about turning the Art into a sport were in the context of operating in America without getting shut down. Few men appreciated the martial realities as deeply as GM Giron.
Forgive me the advertising, but I would not be worthy of my sobriquet if I failed to mention that we are in the process of converting our videos to DVD and look to have goodies in each DVD not present in the video version. For the "Grandfathers" conversion I'm thinking to use a goodly portion of a 35 minute interview I did with GM Giron is his training hall in the basement of his house.
I admired this man greatly and treasure the occasions I had with him.
Woof,
Crafty Dog
Guard Dog:
In relation to the first post and in no relation to any of the sub topics mentioned in this post I think the closest thing I have seen to somewhat of a Kali ?fight was with a pool stick. In this situation the kid had no clue what to do but instinct directed him on how to swing and he clocked his opponent at least twice before the stick broke and the other guy charged him taking it to the ground. Obviously the chances of two people just happening to have two pairs of sticks to fight with are slim to none and all of the training used in Kali can be relayed down any type of object, from beer bottles to bar stools all is relevant.
Rodger:
--- Quote from: Robin Padilla ---
In Arnis Eskrima and Kali history, there is always propaganda. Propaganda to promote Christianity, to promote the Spanish Victory over Soliman in Luzon, Propaganda that my kung fu is better than your kung fu because we have adopted judo throws into our system etc.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I was just referring to two specific rhetorical phrases, "Kali is the art of the blade" and "Kali is the mother art". The "mother art" propaganda has no basis (evidence).
And as we can see, Kali being the art of the blade, also has no basis, since every art in the Philippines is blade oriented, or atleast train with blades.
Now, it is expected in martial arts that lesser people will go around comparing each others' arts. We are not comparing arts here, but rather speaking and arguing historically, and culturally. And in this regard, Eskrima and Arnis are devoid of propaganda.
It is true that words come and go, but to say "kali is the mother art and is found in the philippines", then be at a completely lost to support that claim is questionable. If the word, with the definition it has been given (not its muslim/arabic sounding cognate), does not exist in the Philippines now within a span of 50 to 100 years, we must hold this word (with its meaning) suspect.
Words like Anting-Anting, Hilot, and others are old Filipino words, which only a select few in the Philippines either possess or practice, yet these words still survive throughout the Philippines. Why hasn't Kali (again, with the meaning you've given it) survived?
Crafty_Dog:
Rodger:
You seem to speak English very well, yet for some reason my words are not registering.
I make no claims concerning mother art or any of the rest of it. Have you bothered to go back in the thread as I suggested so that you may have the proper context for my remarks, and thus for the remarks of Guro Inosanto?
"If the word, with the definition it has been given (not its muslim/arabic sounding cognate), does not exist in the Philippines now within a span of 50 to 100 years, we must hold this word (with its meaning) suspect."
Again, words offered in conversation seem to fail to register. Are we to be dogs barking at each other across a fence or are we men communicating? There is the Mirafuentes introduction, and there is Guro Inosanto's recounting of what he learned from Manong LaCoste. If you think him a liar, then say so.
grrrr,
Crafty Dog
Robin Padilla:
Just in case some of you think otherwise....
Let it be known, that Robin Padilla is the one responsible for claiming on this forum that Kali is the mother art, not Guro Crafty.
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"but to say "kali is the mother art and is found in the philippines", then be at a completely lost to support that claim is questionable."
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Again, to support this fact we have evidence from Edgar Sulite's books. We have evidence from Dan Inosanto's Books who learned of Kali from LaCoste. It is also fact that Villabrille called his art Kali. Now, did one day, Villabrille and LaCoste hang out in the Asparagus fields of Stockton and decided to be propagandists and make a propaganda for FMA by coining the phrase "Kali"? I don't think so.
Does anyone know if Villabrille and Lacoste even met?
BEGIN
"If the word, with the definition it has been given (not its muslim/arabic sounding cognate), does not exist in the Philippines now within a span of 50 to 100 years, we must hold this word (with its meaning) suspect."
END
50 years huh? OK. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Yambao book published in 1947? If so, then Kali is about 3 years short of 50 years. Close enough.
What about Arnis and Eskrima? Is there any evidence within a span of 50 to 100 years that these terms preceed Kali (the mother art)?
Hmmm...Maybe someone can track down the Yambao/Mirafuentes people and inquire about Kali (the mother art).
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