DBMA Martial Arts Forum > Martial Arts Topics
"Kali" player on trial for killing bouncer
Crafty_Dog:
Woof SB Mig:
Perhaps we can begin with distinguishing your tag line from what happened here , , , :twisted:
Crafty Dog
PS: Written on 3/22/05: I see Miguel has edited his posts to delete a quote that went like this "if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery." To know this is needed for our exchange to make sense.
SB_Mig:
Touche... :wink:
To me the quote means this: Show respect to all as they respect you. If you are put in a position whereby you must defend yourself, do it to the best of your ability.
The quote is pulled from a speech given by Malcom X in Detroit, November of 1963 named "Message To The Grass Roots".
Of course, many find Malcolm to be a controversial speaker due to his early advocacy of the use violence. Unfortunately, many of his quotes are taken out of context as he was a proponent of violence for self-preservation/self-protection (i.e not turning the other cheek). And, as many are unaware, it was upon his return from a trip to Mecca that Malcolm rejected not only the Nation of Islam, but his own politics of racial separation, and the use of violence as a means to an end.
But back to the topic at hand....
Since your training days, has the perception of the arts changed? And if so, how?
Miguel
Crafty_Dog:
Woof Miguel:
Sorry, but you are not going to get off so easy :P I'm fully aware of Malcom X's history, but don't the values implicit in the quote lack the criterion of proportionality? And is not this exactly what went astray in this case?
Woof,
Crafty Dog
SB_Mig:
I was hoping to get away from a strict discussion on Malcom but I guess not...
Here's the full sentence (which I am sure will raise more than a few hackles with its reference to the Koran):
"There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That?s a good religion."
"Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit (published in Malcolm X Speaks, ch. 1, 1965).
And other excerpts from the speech (all of which must be taken in context with the time the words were spoken):
"If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it's wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it's wrong for America to draft us and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country."
"A revolution is bloody. Revolution is hostile. Revolution knows no compromise. Revolution overturns and destroys everything that gets in its way. And you, sitting around here like a knot on the wall, saying, "I'm going to love these folks no matter how much they hate me." No, you need a revolution. Whoever heard of a revolution where they lock arms, as Reverend Cleage was pointing out beautifully, singing "We Shall Overcome"? Just tell me. You don't do that in a revolution. You don't do any singing; you're too busy swinging. It's based on land. A revolutionary wants land so he can set up his own nation, an independent nation. These Negroes aren't asking for no nation. They're trying to crawl back on the plantation."
"Message To The Grass Roots" was the first of three key speeches that Malcolm X gave and is important in that it laid down his basic ideological framework.
Now in terms of "proportional response", several things have to be taken into account: Malcolm X's attitude towards use of violence in the struggle for power, his flawed interpretation of the Koran (due to the influence of Elijah Mohammed), and his own violent history (to that point). As I stated earlier, his trip to Mecca in 1964 caused him to modify his views and embrace the viewpoint of world unity and a brotherhood of man.
Malcolm's use of hyperbole, improvisation, and analogy to represent the plight of African Americans at the time must be taken into account when reading any of his speeches. Orators are more than willing to extend themselves when it come to making a point. I believe that while the statement itself seems harsh, stripped of hyperbole it is fairly straight forward: If someone seeks to harm you, do the same to them. An eye for an eye.
I don't believe this to be about retribution but indeed about proportional response, couched in hyperbole.
So...
Is slicing open a femoral proportional response to seeing a friend getting choked out? Depends on the situation. But from what I can tell in the club incident, far out of line.
Crafty_Dog:
Woof SB:
The part on Malcolm X is all well and good-- and not on point.
What do you think communicates when your sig line is "It he touches you, kill him"?
And how does this pertain to these questions of yours:
"What can we do to change perceptions about the arts we study? More exposure to the public? More education to the public? Or do we go deeper underground and try to keep ourselves hidden from public view?"
Sorry to be such a bad dog, biting you on the butt about all of this, but my doggy nose has gotten a whiff of cognitive dissonance here , , ,
yip,
Crafty Dog
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