DBMA Martial Arts Forum > Martial Arts Topics
"Kali" player on trial for killing bouncer
Crafty_Dog:
Woof JDN:
I am sorry that I cannot lay my hands on it at the moment, but I remember reading a fairly serious legal piece some years back which formed the basis of my understanding of CA law. I am unaware of any changes in it.
Do you have any citations supporting your statement?
Woof,
Crafty Dog
JDN:
Hi Crafty,
Citations; no, not offhand (I will reseach) but the law in CA (LA City and a few other cities have different rules) only address certain issues, such as items like switch blades, pen knives, cane/swords etc. being illegal. And the issue of open or concealed carry; for example fixed blades MUST be carried open carry while folders may be carried concealed if in the closed position (makes sense to me; do you want an open folder in your pocket?).
The issue of use is not addressed - only whether the knife is legal or not. If questioned, the officer must state why your/this particular knife is illegal, i.e. switchblade, a fixed blade being concealed, etc. For basic reading see Penal Code sections 12020, 653(k), and 626.9 for a basic summary.
We spoke of this once before. I gave you the example of going to the LA Superior Courthouse with a folder. At the door I declared it of course and asked that it be check in (downtown offers that service) The rent a cop at the door said he was going to take it away since I told him it was for self defense; even the Sheriff at check in agreed with him! However, the Sargent on the desk upstairs pulled 653(k) and read it noting to everyone that my knife was perfectly legal and the reason I carried my knife to be irrelevant.
Recently I was on a college campus and was "arrested" by campus police for carrying my folder. It took a while but I pointed out that CA law states that you may not carry any knife on a K-12 campus and that you may not carry a fixed blade on a college campus however by ommision my folder was perfectly legal. The Pasadena DA's office confirmed my opinion to the "arresting" officers.
I suggest that individual's should know the law. Often times Sheriff and Police often do not and unless you explain the law to them (politely) you may have a problem. But you should not be afraid to carry; just use the knife responsibly and appropriately. And what that means is for the jury to decide.
james
jayceblk:
Blake, 32, got into a dispute with one of Umali's friends, Jonathan Chan, about a cigarette, and Blake grabbed Chan around the neck. Umali, a computer network administrator, stabbed Blake in his upper thigh with a 6-inch-long fold-up knife used in kali, a Filipino martial art that includes knife-fighting.
This bothered me a little bit in that I dont remember there being "specific folders" for any art. I could be wrong but blades are blades. Most differences are regional and by maker.
Now for my 2 cents.
I dont think this situation was good per say but I do have a couple of things to interject.
1.) As far as the teaching of "deadly arts" its always been my understanding that to learn to defend from them its best to also know how to do the attacks as well as to defend. Also, take anyone with a little smarts and a willingness to read and practice and you have your deadly expert. If you have enough medical knowledge you can easily know which arteries to strike at and thier locations or even just get a chart that shows you how and where. Im sure in this day and age, you could surf the net and find all sorts of pertinant material on the subject.
2.) Teachers are not responsible for thier students actions per say. Now I do believe that if there is someone with an obvious problem that you should let them go but its almost alleviating the responsibility of the individual. Its like saying heavy metal music made the 80's crowd kill themselves. If I show someone how to find the stress point of a building support so they know what to look for in repairs, is it then my fault if they use that knowledge for an evil action? If thats the case we get into the whole idea of banning knowledge.
3.) Now I dont know the specifics of this as I wasnt there but it does sound like the accused was at fault. Knowing that some of you are bouncers understand that this is not a general statement. Sometimes bouncers go to far. I myself have had two circumstances where it happend. In one a place had roughly 8 bouncers. Im about 5'10" 200 lbs. This guy roughly about 6'6" and at least 300lbs, after knocking into me several times on the dance floor so that I had to move away only to have him follow me, decided to push me to prove his point. The guy is huge so I kind of jump back and pull him with me as he pushes and he almost falls, on me. Long story short the bouncers snatch up me and my friend and basically pin us respectively against the bar and the wall, while the monster gets to take pot shots at our faces. Another time I had another huge bouncer "choke me out" as my frind was getting pushed around by four or 5 guys and as one tried to swing around the bouncer to hit him I grabbed his arm. Now the first one just sucked but the second. Being locked up on my throat and leaned on and not being able to breathe is a scary thing. I dont know who this guy is and if he knows when to stop. I wouldnt blame anyone in that situation for going ape, its a natural reaction. Are somethings excessive, sure but the amount of force and type used to restrain somebody might have those kind of consequenses.
4.) Going underground with Martial arts will only make things worse and you'll have these finger of death stories and the like all over the place.
And sorry I didnt think it would be that long and its a bit of a rant.
Thanks for reading.
metis:
for what it's worth, in NYC (the five boroughs), a knife over 4" is illegal, as are serrations. this is usually ignored on work sites.
he's going to get hit with legal phrases like "going forth armed" and "deadly intent". of course, the description of the knife is about as damning as if he were carrying an "assault rifle".
thankfully, i live upstate in the woods. belt knives are typically ignored everywhere except bars. but really big knives must be accompanied by a Leatherman. :)
jayceblk:
Actually serrations dont have any bearing down here legally they just make the knife look scary to some. The two determining factors are type and length. For instance any assisted opening, switchblade, or even a folder you can "flick" open, are all considered gravity knives, which are illegal. The inches thing is more about the take of the police. I have never seen any law here that says anything about a "legal" specific amount of inches.
:D
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