Kendo

[ronro]

Hi, I'm new here and I have a question:

Have any of you guys ever played against really good kendo folks? If so what happened?

What are your opinions of kendo on the whole as a basis for fighting with sticks?

Ron

[ronro]

I'm asking because all I have near me is kendo and western fencing (sabre), no other weapons based stuff at all

I am not looking for a "my art better than yours" type comparison...I'm just interested to know what people's opinions are of kendo as a base. What are its good and bad points. How does it fare against other systems?

Any sabre fencing info would also be appreciated, although I'm leaning towards kendo just now.

Thanks,

Ron

[Islanddogg]

I went against a kendo practitioner at one of the gatherings. I used double sticks against his staff. I was very impressed with his ability. I had a training partner who was an accomplished kendo player. He was also very good with the staff.

I also did a bit of foil and sabre in college.

My opinion is that kendo is most applicable to staff or an implement where you will be using two hands.

I think that sabre is more transferable to knife stuff.

[Islanddogg]

BTW, if I had to choose which one to train, I'd choose both.

[Night Owl]

ronro,

The fight Island Dog is talking about is examined in great detail by Crafty Dog and Top Dog in the new Staff DVD.


Now, I'm not sure if the Bokken is supposed to be used as a stick, or a simulated Katana, but something I found interesting in this fight was how the Kendo fighter treated his bokken as though it were an actual Katana and attempted 'kill' shots like simple thrusts, short hacks and slicing to test his sword skills in the context of a DB Gathering.

Another video you might want to check out is Tape 6 from Series 1: Unmatched Weapons . There's a couple of good Bokken vs. Double Stick fights here as well with substantial commentary on the bokken itself.

[ronro]

Thats great info, thanks very much. I will try to get hold of those DVD's when I have some spare money.

I was under the impression that modern kendo people treated it more like a stick instead of a sword simulator...but I could be wrong. As a stick would interest me more because its more applicable to instruments you might find in daily life. I think actually sparring with the bokken is rare in kendo because they use those light bamboo things. I guess it hurts to get whacked with a bokken!

There's a great bokken fight scene in the film "zatoichi", have you seen it?

What do you think of the kendo footwork and their strong side forward with a 2 hand weapon? I was having a look at some western staff/club vids and they all stood weak side forward and swung it like a baseball bat.

[outcast]

It seemed to me (I have the staff DVD) that the person did try to use it like a stick, but all that training relating to a sword made him revert back to it in what Guro Crafty calls, "an adrenal situation".  Basically, you fight like you train.  So the move he had cultivated was a slash against his opponent at close range (which would have worked had the weapon been edged) and I believe he was trapped into the clinch game into the ground.  So the main thing to remember is, what you train you will fight.  Bruce Lee once said in Return Of The Dragon, "If it helps you take care of yourself, you should use it."  Just keep the big picture in mind.

Scott

[Dog Pound]

ronro

Any sabre fencing info

One of my kids who used to fence saber is now doing Doces Pares.  He has fast reflexs and a killer parry/strike combination.

The down side from the saber training in crossing over to stick is learning to engage his other hand and lateral foot.

[Charles Rives]

A related art to Kendo would be Jodo.  Which is explicitly a Japanese stick art using a short staff (if one tip of the staff is on the ground the other comes to your solar plexus or your armpit . . . usually about 50-inches for Americans.)  The most common system (Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo) is a hybrid blend of sword, long staff, halberd and spear techniques.

That system has an interesting history.  Muso was a bo-staff fighter who lost a challenge match against Japan's greatest known swordsman Myamoto Musashi.  Afterward, Muso was distraught and prayed and meditated extensively. During his prayers, he struck upon the idea of cutting his Bo down to Jo size so he could use it with both sword and long staff techniques.  He developed the system and became the only fighter to ever defeat Myamoto Musashi in a challenge (stick vs. bokken) sparring match.

It's fairly rare to find a Shindo Muso Ryu class alone in the US but they are out there.  Often (oddly) you find them with Aikido schools.  When Aikidoka teach Jodo, you often see them emphasizing the footwork and get-off-the-line-of-attack movements.  

This is a fun thread and my first DB forum posting.  I'll look forward to reading more on this.

Chuck

[Tulisan]

some say it was the only draw of MM. where did you read it was defeat?
thanks

[Charles Rives]

some say it was the only draw of MM. where did you read it was defeat?
thanks

Well, now that you mention it, I don't remember reading that.  It's been since the 1980's since I read MM's biography.  I probably just amplified the results in my mind in the passing years.

[Crafty_Dog]

Woof All:

Island Dog's opponent was Rod Kuratomi who had extensive training with  , , , I forget the name, but big in traditional Japanese circles.  Rod goes back to the legendary days with Top Dog in the mid 80s.

As seen in RCSFg #6, Shark Dog had an effective and somewhat unconventional bokken game.  Top Dog has commented that in the right hands that this was the most difficult weapon he faced.

Crafty Dog