Author Topic: Environmental issues  (Read 78626 times)

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #250 on: May 11, 2019, 10:54:08 PM »
If I read correctly, the Krogers article is looking primarily at carbon emissions in its comparisons-- which is not really the point with regard to disposable plastic.

To say that Asia is worse is also not really the point either.  Besides, how can we criticize if we use the same technology.

Also there is the matter of plastics, chemicals, and drugs neutering our endocrine systems.

G M

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #251 on: May 11, 2019, 11:27:10 PM »
If I read correctly, the Krogers article is looking primarily at carbon emissions in its comparisons-- which is not really the point with regard to disposable plastic.

To say that Asia is worse is also not really the point either.  Besides, how can we criticize if we use the same technology.

Also there is the matter of plastics, chemicals, and drugs neutering our endocrine systems.

How many plastic bags have you thrown into the ocean? I am going to guess "none" is what you would reply. In North America, as we ll as in europe, the vast majority of people don't just throw their garbage into the street, woods or coastal waters.

https://www.epa.gov/landfills/basic-information-about-landfills

Plastic bags are not tunneling their way of of California landfills to jump into the Pacific.



Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #252 on: May 12, 2019, 01:24:02 PM »
That may be, but what is your analysis of the 30% decline in 40 year old American male testosterone levels over the last 30 years?

Is there nothing in all this that concerns you?

If so, what solutions occur to you?

G M

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #253 on: May 12, 2019, 01:31:03 PM »
That may be, but what is your analysis of the 30% decline in 40 year old American male testosterone levels over the last 30 years?

Is there nothing in all this that concerns you?

If so, what solutions occur to you?

This is a serious issue, but it’s not caused by plastic bags going into landfills. It’s exposure to various chemicals that mimic female hormones.

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #254 on: May 12, 2019, 01:33:58 PM »
Some of which come from plastics degrading into our environment, both ocean and land.

Any thoughts on solving the problem?

Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #255 on: May 14, 2019, 11:54:28 PM »
Feeling pretty rattled by some articles about it hitting the 80s at the Arctic Circle in Russia, highest C02 in 800,000 years, etc.

G M

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #256 on: May 15, 2019, 03:14:24 AM »
Feeling pretty rattled by some articles about it hitting the 80s at the Arctic Circle in Russia, highest C02 in 800,000 years, etc.

https://m.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/winter-makes-a-comeback-in-the-northeast-bringing-snow-and-record-breaking-cold/70008268

Some parts of Colorado just got hit with 16 inches of snow. They have been memory holed, but back in the 90’s, there were articles quoting experts that said the ski industry would be over due to a lack of snow because of global warming.

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #257 on: May 15, 2019, 07:58:15 AM »
"highest C02 in 800,000 years"

Or at least the highest since we've been measuring it, since 1960. 

The new record high concentration of life essential CO2 in the atmosphere is now how many parts per thousand with proper mathematical rounding?  ...  drum roll please ... zero.  How can any light or heat even get through when it so dense at zero parts per thousand.

The source of this new life essential CO2 in the atmosphere, it originally came from ...  drum roll please ... the atmosphere.

At 100,000 through 500,000 PPM there are mammal and human health concerns that should worry us.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380556/

I can say with confidence that more health damage is being done by the scare tactics in the form of anxiety and depression than by the CO2 levels to the ecosystem. 
https://www.wibc.com/blogs/breakdown-brian-baker/aoc-unhinged-ocasio-cortez-goes-bizarre-screaming-voice-cracking-rant

Instead of the unhinged screaming, the altered data, adjusted data, exaggerated data, why not just build now what we know how to build, nuclear and more hydro powered electricity?
---------------------------
Bags in the ocean?  We know where they are coming from, 10 rivers in Africa and Asia, especially water bottles.  Where I live we have clean, crystal clear drinking water in the tap (and people still drink packaged drinks).  What these areas all have in common is a ... lack of economic freedom and prosperity.  WHY NOT FIX THAT?

Plastic in the landfills?  I don't know what to do about that but we already have big government so that doesn't seem to be the solution.  Giant trucks come down my little street every week or two to pick up these things in a government organized sort of way with the cost all force-added to my water bill.  Just tell me where you want the plastic; we are already paying for the disposal.  Stores sell quantities I don't want to buy with packaging that always seems like more than I need.  Government powers, it seems to me, should be aimed at INCREASING consumer choices not eliminating them.

In the inner city I watch the poor-thinking people throw their empty containers and fast food packaging out of their cars and into the street for someone else to pick up - or not.  Makes me think what we have around the world is a people problem, not a plastic or packaging problem.

Yes, biodegradable has a great advantage so let's keep pushing and choosing in that direction.

Wait until you see all the old solar panels and lithium batteries in the landfills after we get the plastics under control.
---------------------------
"What is your analysis of the 30% decline in 40 year old American male testosterone levels over the last 30 years?"

Great question.  On the other side of the health trends, why did life expectancies  skyrocket during the industrial, CO2 emitting age?  It's hard to sort out real danger signals through all the noise.   What is causing the testosterone decline?


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #258 on: May 15, 2019, 09:31:21 AM »
A thoughtful answer, but , , , why is the Arctic ice free where it wasn't before?  Why is it 84 degrees today at the Arctic Circle (just below to be precise) in Russia?

blah blah

Hard for me to avoid the gut sense that we now are regularly outside the bell curve of the probable  , , , ,

"What is causing the testosterone decline?"

Plastics (and pharma drugs) entering the food chain.


DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues, Ice free Arctic
« Reply #259 on: May 15, 2019, 10:21:19 PM »
I had not seen that the Arctic was ice free and experiencing unusually warm weather so I searched and found this.  Rated true by Snopes
--------------------------------------------------------------
"The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway.

Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.

Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds."
  - Associated Press / Washington Post Nov 2 1922
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/warm-welcome/

I was just noticing that the glaciers that once covered the midwest have melted too.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:29:56 PM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues, Greenland glacier reversal
« Reply #260 on: May 15, 2019, 10:28:43 PM »
Greenland glacier reversal

European satellites have detailed the abrupt change in behaviour of one of Greenland’s most important glaciers.

In the 2000s, Jakobshavn Isbrae was the fastest flowing ice stream on the island, travelling at 17km a year.

As it sped to the ocean, its front end also retreated and thinned, dropping in height by as much as 20m year.

But now it’s all change. Jakobshavn is travelling much more slowly, and its trunk has even begun to thicken and lengthen.

“It’s a complete reversal in behaviour and it wasn’t predicted,” said Dr Anna Hogg from Leeds University and the UK Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling (CPOM).

   - BBC  May 14 2019
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/15/jakobshavn-isbrae-mighty-greenland-glacier-slams-on-brakes/
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:31:52 PM by DougMacG »

G M

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #261 on: May 15, 2019, 10:29:11 PM »
A thoughtful answer, but , , , why is the Arctic ice free where it wasn't before?  Why is it 84 degrees today at the Arctic Circle (just below to be precise) in Russia?

blah blah

Hard for me to avoid the gut sense that we now are regularly outside the bell curve of the probable  , , , ,

"What is causing the testosterone decline?"

Plastics (and pharma drugs) entering the food chain.

Dropping human fertility may be a serious problem, natural fluctuations in the earth's climate, and concerns about the environmental impact of plastic grocery bags and drinking straws are not.

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues, Arctic Ice Melting
« Reply #262 on: May 15, 2019, 10:35:29 PM »


Unprecedented.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:44:46 AM by DougMacG »

G M

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We are going to die!!!!
« Reply #263 on: May 15, 2019, 11:01:26 PM »

DougMacG

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Re: We are going to die!!!!
« Reply #264 on: May 16, 2019, 07:16:21 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGB5MMIAVA

Oh no!

G M:  Science used to be wrong about this stuff and now they get everything right.  That is the difference.

In the real world, 20 year trends and 100 year trends are a blip in time.

The people who died of anxiety, depression and suicide because they were told by trusted sources the world is going to end in 10 years, every 10 years, are not going to look back at this episode and laugh.

DougMacG

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Environmental issues, New extreme, 144 degrees! (below zero)
« Reply #265 on: May 16, 2019, 07:24:03 AM »
https://weather.com/news/news/2018-06-26-antarctica-coldest-place-on-earth-satellite

Coldest Place on Earth Is Colder Than We Knew
By Chris DolceJune 26 2018 01:30 PM EDTweather.com
01:07
Satellite Data Shows Extreme Cold Temperatures in Antarctica
Researchers have used satellite data to determine just how cold it can get on Earth and their findings might surprise you.

Antarctica's eastern plateau has the coldest temperatures on Earth.
Satellite data was used by researchers to find out how far below zero temperatures can plunge.
Clear skies, light winds and dry air can drop temperatures as low as minus 144 degrees Fahrenheit.
Scientists have found a new threshold for how far temperatures can plummet below zero on Earth, according to a study published this week in Geophysical Research Letters.

Antarctica's eastern plateau can see temperatures as cold as 144 degrees Fahrenheit below zero, according to new data
----------------------------------------------
Was it 145 below before man-made global warming?

DougMacG

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Cause and effect, chicken or egg?
« Reply #266 on: May 16, 2019, 08:00:20 AM »
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/a-story-of-co2-data-manipulation/
https://drtimball.ca/2019/co2-data-manipulation/
Required reading, I hate to excerpt and miss any part of it.

Warming precedes CO2 increases.  Which causes which?


Greenhouse gas percentages, blue equals water vapor, brown equals CO2:

Water Vapor 95%, CO2 3.6%

CO2 EMISSIONS:

Humans and Animals                                                     45 to  52

Oceans’ outgassing (tropical areas)                                90 to 100

Volcanic and other ground sources                                0.5 to    2

Ground bacteria, rotting and decay                               50 to   60*

 Forest cutting, forest fires                                              1  to    3

 Anthropogenic emissions (2010)                                                    9.5

 TOTAL                                                                      196  to  226.5

* other published values: 26 Gt, resp. 86-110 Gt

UPTAKE:

Vegetation on land                                                      55 to 62

Oceans’ uptake                                                               87 to 95*                           

Algae, phytoplankton, seaweed                                       48 to 57

Weathering (Silica minerals)                                              3 to  6

TOTAL                                                                               193  to  220

Notice that the range of error of estimates for emissions of Oceans and Ground Bacteria exceeds the total for humans.



In the early IPCC Reports they promoted the idea that the length of time CO2 remains in the atmosphere, known as the Residency Time is at least 100 years. Although the 100 years is not mentioned, the concept is still on or implied on many government web pages. For example, Environment Canada says, “As carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for a long time, levels of carbon dioxide continue to build-up in the atmosphere with ongoing human emissions.” Actual Residence Time for CO2 is only 5 to 7 years after which it is cycled back through natural sinks (an area of absorption) such as plants, oceans and soils. (Figure1)

The ocean is the major control of atmospheric CO2, but its ability varies with water temperature. A cold ocean absorbs more than a warm ocean.

Humans produce CO2, but they also remove it from the atmosphere. Agriculture and forestry are the major absorbers, removing an estimated 50 percent of total production.

The Antarctic Ice core record shows temperature increases before CO2.  A similar relationship is shown for every single record of any duration and for any time period. Despite this, all computer models are programmed so a CO2 increase causes a temperature increase.

Carbon dioxide is essential for all life on Earth. Research shows current levels of 392 ppm are approximately one third the optimum for most plants. Empirical evidence from CO2 levels injected into commercial greenhouses indicate optimum yields at levels between 1000 and 1200 ppm. Interestingly this is the average level of the last 300 million years.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Negative Feedback Loop:
"Research shows current levels of 392 ppm are approximately one third the optimum for most plants."

(Doug)   - In other words, as CO2 increases, photosynthesis efficiency increases , up to 1200 PPM, centuries and centuries out at current rates.  Increased photosynthesis means increasing the rate of converting atmospheric CO2 to oxygen. Beyond the positive feedback factor of water absorbing more than ice, negative feedback is the predominant result.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 08:01:24 AM by Crafty_Dog »

ccp

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #267 on: May 16, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
" Coldest Place on Earth Is Colder Than We Knew.......
Clear skies, light winds and dry air can drop temperatures as low as minus 144 degrees Fahrenheit."

so if we accept highest temperature was 137F that means the temp on Earth can swing a high to low of 281 degrees

for contrast I just read the Moons swing can be up to 400 degree F

For Mercury it is far more incredible . -
hard to believe that Mercury , so close to the Sun is unbelievable cold on the "dark side"
No atmosphere or heat from planet itself to warm .  I would have thought the Sun's heat would radiate around but I guess not that much :

 "The day side of the planet reaches temperatures of up to 800 degrees Fahrenheit (427 degrees Celsius). In contrast, the chilly night side can get as cold as minus 290 F (minus 180 C). The planet has an average temperature of 332 F (167 C). These variations are relatively long-lived.

G M

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #268 on: May 16, 2019, 01:06:43 PM »
"The people who died of anxiety, depression and suicide because they were told by trusted sources the world is going to end in 10 years, every 10 years, are not going to look back at this episode and laugh."

Can't argue that point.

I am pretty sure I was in my teens when I was first told we only had 10 years left. I think the world has ended 3 times or so since then.

Oh, and the earth has warmed so much, it's about to snow in California!

 https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-storms-snow-severe-weather-plains-tornado-threat

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #269 on: May 16, 2019, 09:08:01 PM »
"I am pretty sure I was in my teens when I was first told we only had 10 years left. I think the world has ended 3 times or so since then."

The global cooling of the 70s was mostly a one time Newsweek article no more believable than a palm reader or someone who says they know what the market will do next year.  But I do remember being told in 9th or 10th grade that we will run out of natural gas in 1982.  It was that specific, like they already knew the month and day we would run out. That meant nothing to me out of ignorance of context but natural gas is what we heat our homes and schools with and businesses and hospitals.  We were running out - meaning that in a few short years we would not be able to heat our homes and buildings in a severe winter climate.  The end of life here as we know it.  Devastating - and false.

Now its climate change with certainty and teaching us that coercive, centrally controlled economies are great and that freedom is out of date.


G M

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Re: CA Waterboard on keeping trash out of the waterways
« Reply #271 on: May 16, 2019, 11:24:11 PM »


https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/publications_forms/publications/factsheets/docs/trash_fs.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2sO49UXQ2XigDh8sX9TYXk9Ftr4DL5CfAXWERyKb8cQPYeNBDprxRmCuc

Keeping the waterways clean is a good thing. Trying to ban everything that might be used to litter isn’t the correct approach. I would be willing to bet that a lot of the “vibrant diversity” California welcomes is disposing of trash in the same ways commonly done back in their sh*thole countries. But that truth is unpalatable, so virtue signaling via plastic bag and drinking straw bans will have to suffice.


Crafty_Dog

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #272 on: May 17, 2019, 10:06:40 AM »
I am of the opinion that costs to a transaction should be born by the parties to the transaction. 

Pollution is a cost to certain transactions and its costs should be born by those generating it and by so doing the inherent efficiencies of the market will steer us away from things will pollute.

Plastic has tremendous costs to it and looking to phase out frivolous uses is a good thing.

Of course plastic straws in and of themselves are de minimis, but OTOH why not use the paper straws I remember being used in my youth?

Why not use cardboard egg cartons instead of plastic egg cartons?

Why not use cartons such as are used for milk for water bottles as well?

Why not use aluminum for all soda cans instead of some?

AND bring these solutions to the big Asian polluters as well, perhaps as part of trade negotiations , , ,

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #273 on: May 17, 2019, 07:07:26 PM »
Agreed.

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues, The Arctic is Melting, 1817
« Reply #274 on: May 19, 2019, 08:10:55 AM »
THE ARCTIC IS MELTING

“It will without doubt have come to your Lordship’s knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated….
….. this affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations.” A request was made for the Royal Society to assemble an expedition to go and investigate.

President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817, Minutes of Council, Volume 8. pp.149-153, Royal Society, London. 20th November, 1817.

G M

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Can someone take a quick look at the global warming climate model?
« Reply #275 on: May 20, 2019, 06:33:40 PM »
I'm trying to find out how much more snow Colorado will be getting.


https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/20/denver-weather-rain-snow-storm/

Denver weather: Snow arrives early at DIA, potential of 1 to 2 inches of accumulation in city
Snow wasn’t expected in Denver until early Tuesday morning
By KIRK MITCHELL | kmitchell@denverpost.com | The Denver Post
PUBLISHED: May 20, 2019 at 6:24 am | UPDATED: May 20, 2019 at 2:19 pm
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Snow began falling at Denver International Airport early Monday afternoon, hours earlier than forecasters had predicted, forcing meteorologists to increase their projections for snowfall in the Mile High City.

“Right now there is currently a snow shower at Denver International Airport,” said Natalie Sullivan, meteorologist for the National Weather Service in Boulder. She said a band of snow arrived at DIA much earlier than originally expected.

“We’re looking at the potential of 1 to 2 inches of snow in Denver now,” Sullivan said. The NWS had predicted as recently as Monday morning that it wouldn’t start snowing in Denver until 1 a.m. Tuesday.

It officially began snowing at 1:37 p.m. at the airport, Denver’s official weather location.

Mix of rain and snow now falling at DIA early this afternoon, Latest observation at 137 PM says all snow! #COwx

— NWS Boulder (@NWSBoulder) May 20, 2019

Denverites shouldn’t be blamed for thinking they were finished with snow for the season after last week’s streak of high temperatures in the 80s, but northerly winds have brought frosty temperatures back to Colorado, forecasters say.

Denver metro residents need to get back into a winter-safety mindset, driving slower and keeping in mind that black ice could, Sullivan said. The temperature in Denver is 36 degrees, 9 degrees lower than the previous projected high, according to the NWS.



Heavy wet snow is forecast for the foothills and mountains Monday. A winter storm warning and a snow advisory is in place for the foothills and mountains until midnight Tuesday, according to the NWS.

RELATED: Why lightning is one of the top weather-related killers in Colorado
The mountains will get between  8 inches and 18 inches of snow, Sullivan said. The foothills west of Denver could get between 5 inches and a foot of snow. Castle Rock could get up to 6 inches of snow.

“It will be getting worse,” Sullivan said of driving conditions. Icy and snowpacked conditions are expected in the mountains.

Heavy wet snow for the mountains and foothills. #cowx pic.twitter.com/PcMxOInsTG

— NWS Boulder (@NWSBoulder) May 20, 2019

As temperatures plummet into the 30s, snow was originally expected to start falling in Denver by 1 a.m. Instead, it started falling nearly 12 hours early. Thunder mixed with snow is also part of the forecast.

Up to a half inch of snow could be on the ground by Tuesday morning. It could snow until 8 a.m., when the moisture transitions back to rain. The chance for rain is 90 percent. Rain and thunderstorms are expected through the night.

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The wet weather will continue on Wednesday between noon and 3 p.m., the NWS says. Afterward, temperatures will begin to rise. The high on Wednesday will be around 59 degrees, the weather service says.

By Thursday the high temperature will be around 61 degrees, but there will still be a chance for afternoon rain showers and thunderstorms.

The first sunny day of the week will be on Friday, when the high temperature will be around 69 degrees. The weekend will be sunny and pleasant, with temperatures in the lower 70s, the NWS says.

DougMacG

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Re: Can someone take a quick look at the global warming climate model?
« Reply #276 on: May 21, 2019, 06:11:30 AM »
quote author=G M
I'm trying to find out how much more snow Colorado will be getting.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/05/20/denver-weather-rain-snow-storm/
Denver weather: Snow arrives early at DIA, potential of 1 to 2 inches of accumulation in city
Snow wasn’t expected in Denver until early Tuesday morning
May 20, 2019
----------------
A-Basin extending its ski season:
https://www.arapahoebasin.com/
"The longest season in Colorado just got longer."

Breckenridge, Colo:  Open
http://blog.breckenridge.com/2019/01/18/breck-2018-19-season-extended/

Snowbird Utah:  Open

The ski resorts are fully on board with global warming, Winter and snow will end soon, probably when the Arctic is ice free. 
https://www.powder.com/stories/climate-change/climate-change-study-2090/

Meanwhile Alta reported 626 inches of fresh new powder on the slopes this season.
https://www.alta.com/conditions/daily-mountain-report/snow-report
Go figure.

G M

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More model questions
« Reply #277 on: May 22, 2019, 01:03:18 PM »
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/jul/05/water-expert-nevadans-can-expect-hotter-and-drier/

Water experts: Climate change intensifying effects of persistent drought

UNLV drought presentation
MICK AKERS

UNLV geoscience expert Matthew Lachniet explains rising temperatures in the West, as Colby Pellegrino, director of water resources at Southern Nevada Water Authority, and Lynn Fenstermaker of Desert Research Institute look on. The trio spoke during a panel discussion on climate and drought at UNLV on June 29, 2017.

By Mick Akers

Wednesday, July 5, 2017 | 2 a.m.

The effects of global climate change are being felt in the West’s continuing drought, according to a panel discussion at UNLV last week.

Wildfires have increased over the last several years, something one of Colby Pellegrino’s mentors told her years ago would show that climate change is legitimate.

“We’ll know if it’s real, because the West will be on fire long before it hits the watershed,” said Pellegrino, director of water resources at Southern Nevada Water Authority.

Pellegrino said the average temperature was up 8 degrees during March in Colorado, home of the snowcap that feeds the Colorado River and, in turn, Lake Mead. “It clocked in as the warmest temperature for the month in the state of Colorado ever.”

This year’s unseasonably warm temperatures in the West have had sizable impacts on the snowpack in the Rockies this year, Pellegrino said.

“It caused an adjustment in the forecast of over 2 million acre-feet just as a result of the temperatures in March,” she said.

Data recently published on the issue said the drought was caused by temperature changes. In contrast, there was a similar shortage of water in the 1950s, which was caused by the lack of precipitation.

Dr. Matthew Lachniet, a UNLV geoscience expert, said Pellegrino was alluding to what is known as a hot drought. Studying cave deposits from various areas in Nevada, Lachniet and his associates have been able to create a climate history showing how temperature and precipitation have changed over a span of 11,000 years.

“Pretty simple, hot and dry, that’s the pattern for Nevada,” Lachniet said.

A temperature curve created for the 11,000 years of data shows that temperatures peaked about 8,000 years ago and dropped thereafter, but recently the temperature is beginning to rise again, which Lachniet said is the effect of global warming.

“The answer is, yes, it’s really unquestionable that climate is changing and humans are driving it,” he said. “We know that since the 1980s that temperatures have exceeded the long- term means.”

When it gets hot, it gets drier, and the data show that Nevadans can expect to see hotter and drier conditions to persist heading into the future, Lachniet said.

https://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Las-Vegas-passes-average-annual-rainfall-509756231.html

By AP | Posted: Fri 10:16 AM, May 10, 2019  |  Updated: Fri 10:35 PM, May 10, 2019
         
LAS VEGAS (AP) - A storm that swept through Las Vegas on Thursday set a record for the date and gave the region an early push past the average amount of rainfall for a year.

National Weather Service meteorologist Andy Gorelow said Friday steady rain and thunderstorms overnight raised the rainfall total past 4.5 inches (11.4 millimeters) since Jan. 1.

Las Vegas usually averages just less than 4.2 inches (10.7 centimeters) of rain in a year, according to records kept since 1938 at the official measuring station at McCarran International Airport.

The wettest year on record was 1941, when the region tallied 10.72 inches (27.2 centimeters) of rain.

Gorelow says the 0.45 inches (11.4 millimeters) of rainfall on Thursday tripled the previous record of 0.15 inches (3.8 millimeters) set on May 9, 1977.

DougMacG

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Re: More model questions
« Reply #278 on: May 22, 2019, 01:35:01 PM »
Good find!  Do they publish the weather report in the corrections section?  Have they issued an apology for the false story?

"There was a similar water shortage in the 1950s."   - Oops

"When it gets hotter, it gets dryer."    - Right, except when the heat in the first place is caused by increased humidity, how can that make it dryer?

Octane combustion:  2 C8H18 + 25 O2 ---> 16 CO2 +18 H2O
https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-balance-an-equation-for-the-combustion-of-octane

More H2O is emitted during combustion than CO2 and H2O has the largest total  warming effect on the globe of all greenhouse gases.

So the increasing humidity makes it dryer, said the 'expert'.

DougMacG

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Re: More model questions, LV drought 2017, rain 2019, Great Lakes
« Reply #279 on: May 22, 2019, 05:30:49 PM »
Reminds me of the Great Lakes story posted elsewhere.
Record low levels, may never recover, 2013:
https://wmeac.org/lakes-michigan-and-huron-have-hit-all-time-low/2013/

Record high levels now:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/high-water-levels-on-great-lakes-flood-towns-shrink-beaches-11558517400

Is this climate change, catastrophic, human caused, or is this natural variation?  What did the all-knowing models predict?  Drought or high water?  Was it drought caused by water vapor in the atmosphere or rain caused by drought?  Can you really have it both ways?  Only with a dishonest media, bureaucracy and academia.
-------------------------
Update, I didn't see that Powerline had the same story at the same time.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/05/global-warming-it-can-do-anything.php

You can see from their chart how the a date range of about 1998 to 2014 looks like we are in a never ending drought narrative.  Look at a wider range and we see a variability cycle within a remarkable narrow and stable water level range:



That's what they do with temperature data, talk about warming since a certain date when it was cooling in the period right before that.  Hottest day since the 1930s?  Interesting but how do you explain the 30s?  Hotter than the 30s?  Only after you adjust the data for those years downward.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 06:43:20 AM by DougMacG »


G M

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Re: More model questions
« Reply #281 on: May 22, 2019, 10:17:26 PM »
Yeah, they'll get to that as soon as they apologize for 2 years of "Russia! Russia! Russia!"


Good find!  Do they publish the weather report in the corrections section?  Have they issued an apology for the false story?

"There was a similar water shortage in the 1950s."   - Oops

"When it gets hotter, it gets dryer."    - Right, except when the heat in the first place is caused by increased humidity, how can that make it dryer?

Octane combustion:  2 C8H18 + 25 O2 ---> 16 CO2 +18 H2O
https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-balance-an-equation-for-the-combustion-of-octane

More H2O is emitted during combustion than CO2 and H2O has the largest total  warming effect on the globe of all greenhouse gases.

So the increasing humidity makes it dryer, said the 'expert'.

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #282 on: May 24, 2019, 05:54:47 AM »
A study in British medical journal The Lancet reached the following conclusion:

"Cold weather kills 20 times as many people as hot weather, according to an international study analyzing over 74 million deaths in 384 locations across 13 countries."
-------
I would be more worried if the Earth was cooling by 1 degree per century, 20 times more worried, and I would be more worried if life essential CO2 levels at zero parts per thousand were falling, infinitely more worried.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 06:15:31 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #283 on: May 24, 2019, 06:26:01 AM »
The environmental movement in politics is like a watermelon, green on the outside and then red (communist) all the way through once you cut through the surface.
   - Paraphrasing Seb Gorka

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Democrats’ Curious Disdain for Nuclear Power
« Reply #284 on: May 31, 2019, 09:31:31 AM »
Democrats’ Curious Disdain for Nuclear Power
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/democrats-curious-disdain-for-nuclear-power/

Until they embrace nuclear energy as a key to reducing emissions, the party’s many presidential candidates will be hard to take seriously on climate change.
----------------------------------------

The Democratic Party has not supported nuclear energy since 1972.  Here is the 1972 platform:
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1972-democratic-party-platform
"By 1980, we may well have to depend on imports from the Eastern Hemisphere for as much as 30 to 50 percent of our oil supplies. At the same time, new forms of energy supply—such as nuclear, solar or geothermal power—lag far behind in research and development."

    - Prescient.  They saw the energy crunch of the 1970s coming - and did nothing about it.

G M

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Re: Democrats’ Curious Disdain for Nuclear Power
« Reply #285 on: May 31, 2019, 11:06:25 AM »
A constant theme with the left applies here. It’s about power and control over the population. If nuclear addresses “global warming” then there is no need for additional taxes and government.


Democrats’ Curious Disdain for Nuclear Power
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/05/democrats-curious-disdain-for-nuclear-power/

Until they embrace nuclear energy as a key to reducing emissions, the party’s many presidential candidates will be hard to take seriously on climate change.
----------------------------------------

The Democratic Party has not supported nuclear energy since 1972.  Here is the 1972 platform:
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/1972-democratic-party-platform
"By 1980, we may well have to depend on imports from the Eastern Hemisphere for as much as 30 to 50 percent of our oil supplies. At the same time, new forms of energy supply—such as nuclear, solar or geothermal power—lag far behind in research and development."

    - Prescient.  They saw the energy crunch of the 1970s coming - and did nothing about it.

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Environmental issues, Alberta Introduces Carbon Tax Repeal Bill
« Reply #286 on: June 09, 2019, 10:04:35 AM »
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/24/alberta-introduces-carbon-tax-repeal-bill/

“The carbon tax has been all economic pain and no environmental gain. If Justin Trudeau’s government then seeks to impose a federal carbon tax in Alberta, we will see him in court,” Alberta’s Premier told media. This will add Alberta to three other provinces that have taken the federal government to court over the carbon tax: Ontario, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan.

According to the Alberta government, repealing the tax will bring more than a billion dollars into the provincial coffers and create as many as 6,000 new jobs—a sensitive issue in the energy industry-dependent province that has yet to fully recover from the 2014 oil price crisis.
----------------------------------------------
Tax the external cost of a pollutant?  - Yes
Is CO2 a pollutant?  - No / Disputed
What is the external cost of a CO2 transaction?  - No one can measure it.
Where did this manmade Carbon originate that man is taking from the ground and artificially putting in the atmosphere?   - It came from the atmosphere.
Is the external cost taken from the transaction be transferred to the right parties that are injured by the transaction?  - No
Does taxing 20% of greenhouse gases make the total go down?   - Mostly it causes a shift of the consumption to untaxed areas.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 10:26:19 AM by DougMacG »

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues, plastic bags continued
« Reply #287 on: June 18, 2019, 10:04:12 AM »
I guess they banned the free plastic bag in California.  I arrived in sunny southern Cal without sunglasses, stepped into a drug store, found a decent deal at $20, then noticed it was 2 for 1 if I sign up for whatever so I checked out with two, realized they were giving me two fragile pair of sunglasses that I always get scratched without a case so I asked for a bag.  You should have seen the look of the cashier.  Instead of a thin disposable bag free I had to pay $0.10 for a nice heavy duty bag.  One pair of sunglasses broke that day and one pair broke before I got home.  I'm not sure if I still have the bag.  Nice bag.

Is there something short of banning plastic bags, like just quit being so wasteful?

Bjorn Lomborg writes:

"We also need to consider the wider environmental impact of our bag choices. A 2018 study by the Danish Ministry of Environment and Food looked not just at plastic waste, but also at climate-change damage, ozone depletion, human toxicity and other indicators. It found you must reuse an organic cotton shopping bag 20,000 times before it will have less environmental damage than a plastic bag.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-sorry-banning-plastic-bags-wont-save-our-planet/
--------------------------------

Does anyone look into these things before they knee jerk into legislation?

G M

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Re: Environmental issues, plastic bags continued
« Reply #288 on: June 18, 2019, 01:41:08 PM »
I guess they banned the free plastic bag in California.  I arrived in sunny southern Cal without sunglasses, stepped into a drug store, found a decent deal at $20, then noticed it was 2 for 1 if I sign up for whatever so I checked out with two, realized they were giving me two fragile pair of sunglasses that I always get scratched without a case so I asked for a bag.  You should have seen the look of the cashier.  Instead of a thin disposable bag free I had to pay $0.10 for a nice heavy duty bag.  One pair of sunglasses broke that day and one pair broke before I got home.  I'm not sure if I still have the bag.  Nice bag.

Is there something short of banning plastic bags, like just quit being so wasteful?

Bjorn Lomborg writes:

"We also need to consider the wider environmental impact of our bag choices. A 2018 study by the Danish Ministry of Environment and Food looked not just at plastic waste, but also at climate-change damage, ozone depletion, human toxicity and other indicators. It found you must reuse an organic cotton shopping bag 20,000 times before it will have less environmental damage than a plastic bag.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-sorry-banning-plastic-bags-wont-save-our-planet/
--------------------------------

Does anyone look into these things before they knee jerk into legislation?

Look at California today and tell me if you can find any evidence of coherent thought behind their legislation.

G M

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ccp

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Mario's other kid
« Reply #290 on: June 19, 2019, 05:28:55 AM »
https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060616261


"The comment ended months of speculation over the fate of climate legislation in New York. Democratic lawmakers, who seized complete control of state government when they took over the state Senate last fall, had been pushing a bill called the "Climate and Community Protection Act." The bill would spend 40% of the state's clean energy revenues on energy efficiency measures and renewable installations in disadvantaged communities."


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Re: US's carbon emission reductions
« Reply #292 on: July 24, 2019, 05:15:48 PM »
After reading this I must say I feel misled by some things I have previously read on this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2017/10/24/yes-the-u-s-leads-all-countries-in-reducing-carbon-emissions/?fbclid=IwAR2SzxxKw7uIGOKw2wp-Pxx32nLh7sbHnuicxqs866uBGJSPOCVaLVAD03g#22d02f613535

Does North Korea get some sort of prize for their low carbon footprint?

DougMacG

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Re: Environmental issues
« Reply #293 on: July 24, 2019, 05:36:52 PM »
Yes but the hundred million killed by socialism in the last century take first place with zero atmospheric carbon emissions.




Crafty_Dog

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Grannis on warming data
« Reply #297 on: August 27, 2019, 11:37:10 AM »