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A Father's Question

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sgtmac_46:

--- Quote from: Crafty_Dog on September 13, 2007, 03:19:27 PM ---Woof All:

One practical suggestion that I have received is to cite the statutory declarations in CA of the right to self-defense.  In other words, the school's declared policy is a violation of state law-- or so my lawyers will say when we sue to school should it ever fcuk with my son's right of self-defense.

Now I mull over whether and if so how to bring this to the school's attention.

TAC!
CD

--- End quote ---
Good for you Crafty! The Nanny-State BS of trying to turn our children in to sheeple has to stop.  Imagine the audacity of declaring that self-defense is not a basic human right and is not an acceptable reason to fight.  In other words, the only civilized response to violence is to be a victim of it.

Or course, the reality is that this is a mentality that the Nanny-Staters wish to foster on society as a whole, and of course if you want to change a society, go after the children.  This is the mentality that have in store for the rest of us, and would codify it as law if possible....ironically, in America at least, our state legislatures are passing laws in the opposite direction.

Here's the logical outcome of creating a set of rules and laws that do not recognize lawful self-defense.....criminal thugs in schools have little fear of being expelled....who is punished are those students who want to be at school, who want to learn, but refuse to be victims of bullying and thuggery.  The 'punish everyone equally' zero-tolerance policies of schools is asinine in the extreme.

It's about time we started demanding that our schools act as smaller microcosms of our larger society, including embracing the rules we set for ourselves, including recognizing the basic fundamental human right of self-defense....and it is most definitely is a human right (at least in America).  It seems, however, schools are embracing the European model that says we have no fundamental right to self-defense, and all students are mere subjects of the state.

Crafty_Dog:
Well this matter wandered off the radar screen until my son's class was shown a video repeating this cowardly doctrine this past week.  He came home to me upset.  He feels afraid he will be thrown out of the school should ever he have to defend himself.

So I spoke with the school's office and made arrangements to see the video in question for myself this coming Thursday. The principal got wind of my interest and we had a very serious conversation this past Friday. In our previous dealings I have found her to be a rather level headed woman and I suspect she finds me to be , , , interesting  :wink: so we had a basis upon which I could begin the conversation.

I stated the matter plainly-- the school's policy was wrong and I most certainly am teaching my son to defend himself. She countered with the to-be-expected. I told her I had told him to disobey the schools policy should he be struck, and she said he would be punished. I asked if that would include a mark on his record. She said it could, though not likely for ordinary scuffles. Then I hit her with a point that I picked up here; I told her that like all human beings, my son had the God-given right, the constitutional right under the Ninth Amendment, and statutory rights under the laws of California to defend himself and that should the school ever put a disciplinary mark on him that I would bring the full power of the courts to bear.

This she was not expecting  :evil: She knows I used to be a lawyer and it most certainly knocked her off-balance for the logic of the point was new to her. I followed up by saying that I understood that if she had two scrapping boys both hollering "He started it!" that I had no problem with both being given detention or analogous punishment, but any mark on his record would be met by a lawsuit.

We talked some more. She tried PC twaddle and I told her the school was teaching cowardice and I was teaching my son to grow up into a man. Eventually she said she would take another look at the handbook, consult with the distict bureacracy etc. I offered to help her redraft the passage in question and she answered that she just might take me up on that.

The Adventure continues , , ,

grimel:

--- Quote from: Crafty_Dog on February 24, 2008, 01:23:17 PM ---I stated the matter plainly-- the school's policy was wrong and I most certainly am teaching my son to defend himself. She countered with the to-be-expected. I told her I had told him to disobey the schools policy should he be struck, and she said he would be punished. I asked if that would include a mark on his record. She said it could, though not likely for ordinary scuffles. Then I hit her with a point that I picked up here; I told her that like all human beings, my son had the God-given right, the constitutional right, and statutory rights under the laws of California to defend himself and that should the school ever put a disciplinary mark on him that I would bring the full power of the courts to bear.

This she was not expecting  :evil: She knows I used to be a lawyer and it most certainly knocked her off-balance for the logic of the point was new to her.

--- End quote ---

Logic seems to always knock the nannies for a loop.

I forgot one thing that seems to stupify the grass eaters:

The only reason Ghandi used a peaceful approach was the British had disarmed India (which Ghandi claimed was the greatest travesty the Brits committed).

Even the Dalai Llama promotes violence as a means to maintain safety and peace when necessary.

from his 2005 visit:

The Dalai Lama gave multiple definitions for nonviolence during the hour-long conversation, including compassion and "protection for all living things." "Violence is destruction; nonviolence is construction," he said.

But the boundaries between violence and nonviolence cannot be determined simply by observing actions on their surface, he said. An individual can use nice words to cheat or exploit another, he said. Conversely, a harsh action could be done out of compassion and the intent to protect others, he added. Limited violence can be permissible, and countering a violent action with a strong countermeasure sometimes is not only permissible "but is the right thing to do," he said.

The organized violence of war, however, is never a lasting solution, he said. Acting out of negative emotions, however natural they may be, obscures reality, he said. In today's reality, "the whole world is like one family or one body. Destroying one part of the world is like destroying yourself," he said.

War is very hard to justify, he said. It's too early to say whether the war in Iraq is right or wrong, he added. "We'll see," he said.

The Dalai Lama mixed pragmatism with the principles of nonviolence when talking about Tibetan resistance to the Chinese occupation. "Firstly, our basic principle is nonviolence. In our case, violence is like suicide," he said. "We need weapons. From where do we buy them? A few guns, a few explosives won't work."

michael:
I think you handled the situation very, very well. You got your point across very clearly without being nasty. That is about all you can do when talking with those who don't have a clue. I have told my kids the same thing---they better not start it, but they can and had better defend themselves if the time arises, and I will back them all the way.

Guide Dog:
As a teacher for the past five years in the section of a southern California school district that is literally on the wrong side of the tracks: I'm disturbed by the immediate assumption that the principal in question is "clueless".  The principal must have at least a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, several years spent in the classroom, and an administrative credential under her belt in order to have become a principal.  Education does not guarantee intelligence or common sense, but it does display a commitment to a goal and a willingness to jump through multiple hoops in order to get what you want.  It sounds like the principal is in the unenviable position of having to enforce a zero tolerance policy, while dealing with a stakeholder (Guro Marc) who just happens to be an expert on the subject of violence and aggression.  At least she sounds open to using Guro Crafty's knowledge to rewrite the policy into something that makes sense.

 It's a crazy world out there.  We have fights on a regular basis at my school site.  The kids choose to make that their sport.  We have a wealth of afterschool activities, sports, clubs, and even an afterschool center with a pool table, DVD's and computers.  Most of our gang kids choose to either hang out at the gas station down the street from the school or go up to the local elementary school and start fights.  Most of our kids could use a beating.  Nobody needs to lose an eye or anything, but I have several students that would benefit from saying something stupid to somebody stupid and having their a$$es kicked a little.  I never tell my students or coworkers that I train.  Honestly, if a students came at me with a knife, my first thought would be that I hope I don't lose my house.  Many of our students won't read or write or put any effort into improving themselves, but they sure have an uncanny knack for figuring out how to exploit the system.

As a doctoral student: I am working on my doctorate of education degree right now, and I hope to write my dissertation on the topic of updating the research to date about uses of martial arts education to change students' attitudes towards violence.  I recently wrote a paper about the injustice of zero tolerance policies.  A lot of my thinking actually came from DBMA (backed up with some other academia) and I also included a citation to the DBMA site.  The challenge is that schools and school employees really can't kick a$$ anymore.  We had a girl at my site get beat up by three other girls and the incident was captured on a security recording.  The victim did nothing but try to cover her head from the beating.  She did not throw a SINGLE strike back.  The three attackers were suspended for a month.  All of their teachers had to send homework for a  month because legally the incident could not affect their grades.  The girl who had the crap beat out of her had to serve a three day suspension to keep with the schools zero tolerance policy.  I watched as the vice principal explained to her that it was only a formality and that it would not be on her permanent record.  The girl spent the conversation nodding, with tears streaming down her face.

As a father: I have a ten month old.  Rules and laws mean nothing when it's your child.  The thing is that you can't really know until you are a parent.  That's one of those things that sounds condescending, but isn't intended to be.  It's like a Gathering.  You can stick spar.  You can even go at it with rattan sticks, but until you've participated in a Gathering, you don't fully know what it's like.  Looking in my son's big eyes as he takes it all in, there is nothing I wouldn't do to preserve that innocence and his right to be a kid for a few years before he starts to understand how ugly the world can be.  That being said, I'm going to see that he has the tools he needs.  If that means standing up to a bully and having to face a suspension to establish that he is not someone to be picked on, I'll not only get a sub. to cover my classes to go pick him up, I'll take him out for fu&%ing ice cream!

As a martial artist:This topic is near and dear to my heart.  After we finish fighting, after all of our Gatherings, after all of the certificates and belts, after all of the great people and the amazing stories, after a little credit card debt to catch a plane and make a seminar, after a MMA/boxing/muay Thai career, what do you want to do with your martial art?  What are the arts for?  Assume you already have all of the credentials you want and a six pack.  After all of that, we are left with the fact that martial arts can be used to improve the world around us.  I truly believe that with the unique insights into violence, aggression, personal development, and self-discovery, we really can have a positive influence on those around us.  That contributes to the greater good.  I know that all sounds a bit cliched and "new-agey", but if we change our perceptions, our reality can be different.

Guro Crafty, please follow up on this thread when you and the principal sit down together to look at the policy.  I really want to hear about how it goes.

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