Dog Brothers Public Forum

Thank you Guro Crafty for giving the opportunity to talk about Maestro Sonny's art. The 1st anniversary of his passing will be on Friday the 24th so the Umpad Tribe will be getting together to remember him by playing, flowing and keeping his art alive and strong.
I have passed on the link to this thread to Guro Jay Pugao who put these 2 video clips together. Also to Guro Chris Suboreau, one of the Maestro's earliest students who is in the process of writing an article about Sonny and the Corto Kadena system. Your question is one he addresses, and as he has more knowledge of this than I , I will let him answer, or perhaps I can post the relevent section of his article.

Also a request. Could we change the spelling of the thread to Corto-Kadena ? This is how Sonny spelled it.

 I don't have tv, but a friend forwarded me this...not sure what the quality of the info will be (just from reading the eskrima section), but anyway.....

 

MMA: NEW HISTORY CHANNEL SERIES HOSTED BY MMA FIGHTER TO TRACE HISTORY OF HAND TO HAND COMBAT, COMPLETE DETAILS
by Mike Johnson @ 3:53:00 PM on 6/28/2007

STARTING THIS SUMMER, THE HISTORY CHANNEL® VIEWERS CAN STEP INTO THE SHOES OF FIGHTERS FROM ACROSS THE CENTURIES AND AROUND THE WORLD FOR AN IMMERSIVE INTERNATIONAL JOURNEY INTO THE HEART AND ART OF HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT HUMAN WEAPON

Series Premieres on Friday, July 20 at 10pm ET/PT


HUMAN WEAPON follows Jason Chambers, America ’s own fighting Welterweight Champion & Bill Duff, former Pro Football Player & Wrestler, as they train with international hand-to-hand combat masters and learn the history behind the world’s most fascinating forms of combat…Culminating with a heart-pounding fight challenge.

New York , June 2007 – This summer The History Channel® embarks on a remarkable journey across the globe to reveal the history behind one of humankind’s most ancient skills: the art of hand-to-hand combat. Viewers will join hosts Jason Chambers – mixed-martial-artist and professional fighter – and Bill Duff – former professional football player and wrestler – as they embark on a mission: to explore the history and practice of these time-honored combat arts. Together, Jason and Bill fold back the rich historical and cultural layers of Muay Thai, Eskrima, Judo, Karate, Savate and more in the ultimate search of HUMAN WEAPON.

This journey of human experience is one the two hosts will take with their fists and their feet…with their sweat and blood. They will walk in the shoes of people of many cultures who used these fighting techniques – skills that were born out of each society’s need to defend itself. And at the end of each journey, one of these two warriors will face the ultimate test – he’ll try to survive a real fight with a true HUMAN WEAPON.

Their thrill-seeking quest takes hosts Jason and Bill to some extreme and exotic places. Each episode of HUMAN WEAPON charts an expedition through foreign continents, famous cities, exotic villages, back alleys and lush landscapes in their quest for a different type of combat. After learning about the history and culture, and training in it themselves, they will see if they have learned enough to take on one of the professional fighting masters in the discipline – and survive.

The first week of HUMAN WEAPON (July 20) takes the hosts to Bangkok to learn different forms of the ancient art of Muay Thai, also known as the “Science of Eight Limbs.” In this fighting technique the hands, shins, elbows and knees are developed into weapons designed to crush an opponent. As in every episode, the hosts experience the history of the art, how to train in it, and the culture it evolved from. In their journey through the exotic kingdom once known as Siam , Chambers and Duff discover the origins of Muay Thai in an ancient Buddhist temple, battle professional fighters in a hardcore rural gym and immerse themselves in the jungle camp of secretive Muay Thai Master Preang. They’ll become intimately acquainted with all eight limbs. Until one of them must use what they’ve learned in a fight against the Champion Yodecha.

In future episodes of HUMAN WEAPON we find the fighting pair battling an opponent in a jungle cockfighting pit, practicing ancient wrestling moves on a water buffalo and learning the secrets of a death strike in a Japanese temple. We follow Chambers and Duff as they travel the world from Japan to France , to the Philippines and Israel and beyond, absorbing each nation's singular history and traditions, while learning how each individual location gave birth to its distinct form of combat.

Some of the topics covered in HUMAN WEAPON, in addition to Muay Thai ( Thailand ), are: Eskrima ( Philippines ), Judo ( Japan ), Karate ( Japan ), Savate ( France ), Pankration ( Greece ), and Krav Maga ( Israel ).

HUMAN WEAPON Hosts
Jason Chambers. A Total Fighting Challenge Welterweight Champion, Jason Chambers has a record of 16 wins and 4 losses as an MMA fighter. He has been training in various martial arts since the age of six. Jason has fought in “Deep” in Japan and “Rento Maximo” in Mexico and all over the USA . He has trained under Renzo Gracie and currently trains under Eddie Bravo in Jiu-Jitsu. In addition, Jason also holds the rank of “Phase 1 Instructor” in Jeet Kune Do under Joe Goytia. Some of Jason’s current training partners are Karo Parisayn, Bas Rutten, and Randy Coture at Legends Gym in Hollywood , California .

Bill Duff. Pro Football player, bodyguard, wrestler and stunt double, Bill Duff holds a brown belt in Korean street fighting (Toa So Dou) under Master Davis of the Wa Wrang Studios in Riverside , New Jersey . He is a two-time heavyweight state champion wrestler, member of the New Jersey Hall of fame, and undefeated in bar fights. Bill, 6-foot 4 inches tall and 280 pounds, was a professional football player for seven years. He started for the Orlando Rage in the XFL and spent the 2000 and 2002 NFL Europe seasons with the Berlin Thunder, helping them win the 2002 World Bowl Championships. Continuing his career with the Arena Football league, he played for the Indianapolis Firebirds and Columbus Destroyers. Prior to this, he played for the Cleveland Browns in their expansion year 1999-2000. He was also co-captain of the 1997 SEC champion Tennessee Volunteers.

On History.com, HUMAN WEAPON will include a game, the history of all different forms of hand-to-hand combat, exclusive fighting short-form video, and “motion-capture” footage showing the different types of moves. There will also be host photos, bios, and video interviews, a glossary of terms, an episode guide, tune-in information and more. One fight in each episode of HUMAN WEAPON will be shown in detail on History.com.

The new series HUMAN WEAPON is produced for The History Channel by Jupiter Entertainment. Executive Producer for The History Channel is Marc Etkind. Executive Producers are Steven Land and Zak Weisfeld.

The History Channel® is a leading cable television network featuring compelling original, non-fiction specials and series that bring history to life in a powerful and entertaining manner across multiple platforms. The network provides an inviting place where people experience history in new and exciting ways enabling them to connect their lives today to the great lives and events of the past that provide a blueprint for the future. The History Channel has earned four Peabody Awards, three Primetime Emmy® Awards, ten News & Documentary Emmy® Awards and received the prestigious Governor's Award from the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences for the network's Save Our History® campaign dedicated to historic preservation and history education. The History Channel reaches more than 93 million Nielsen subscribers. The website is located at www.History.com.

###

Upcoming episodes of HUMAN WEAPON:

MUAY THAI (July 20)

Hosts Jason Chambers and Bill Duff journey to Bangkok , Thailand , home to one of the world’s most distinctive and devastating fighting arts, Muay Thai. After witnessing beat downs and knockouts at legendary Lumpinee Stadium, they’ll travel across the country perfecting the moves of the fighting style known as the Science of Eight Limbs.

From ancient killing techniques in the jungles on the border of Burma to weapons training among the ruins of a Buddhist temple, they’ll master all aspects of this centuries-old discipline in the hopes that one of them can survive a fight against an international Muay Thai champion. Thailand

ESKRIMA (July 27)

Hosts Jason Chambers and Bill Duff travel to the island nation of the Philippines , where the indigenous fighting style, Eskrima, was formed. From ancient forts in Cebu City to a modern military base in Manila, our hosts will learn the stick and knife techniques that were used to kill famed Spanish explorer Ferdinand Magellan in the 16th century, battle the Japanese in WWII guerrilla raids and wage an ongoing struggle against the terrorist organization Abu Sayef in the jungles of Mindinao.

Along the way, they’ll attempt to take down a 2,000-pound water buffalo using techniques developed on the rice paddies at the foot of the Manalanga Mountains , and perfect their Eskrima stick-twirling techniques on rickety bamboo rafts beneath the waterfalls in the jungles of Badian. Finally, one of our hosts will enter a gritty cockfight ring for an Eskrima stick fight against a five-time world champion. Philippines

JUDO (August 3)

Our hosts, Jason Chambers and Bill Duff, are in Japan to explore the techniques and history of Japan ’s national art of hand-to-hand combat: Judo – the science of the Samurai. Derived from the bloody battlefields of feudal Japan and jujutsu fighting styles of the samurai, judo has an illustrious past of deadly skills and honor. Along their journey, our hosts travel through the towering metropolis of Tokyo and the Samurai capital of Kyoto . They’ll train with an elite police force and journey to the mountaintop hideaway of legendary master, the descendent of a 400-year-old line of samurai

Under the intense training of the masters, Jason and Bill quickly discover the spectacular throws, merciless pins and strangling chokeholds that are an integral part of this powerful combat art. Jason and Bill’s journey eventually leads them to Tokai University , where one of them will muster the strength and newly acquired judo skills required to take on a world-class judo champion. Japan

KARATE (August 10)

Hosts Chambers and Duff travel to the island of Okinawa , Japan , the birthplace of one of the most deadly hand-to-hand combat arts in the world, Karate. Our hosts will journey across this legendary island, learning all aspects of the fighting art Okinawans created to help battle invading Samurai warriors over 400 years ago.

After practicing the shocking techniques of Iron Body Training in a 600-year-old castle, mastering heart-stopping vital point strikes in an ancient temple and putting themselves through the rigorous training regiments of ancient Karate masters, one of the hosts will step onto the mat to face a black belt, and Okinawan Champion, in a true Karate battle. Japan

SAVATE (August 17)

Hosts Jason Chambers and Bill Duff are in France , to study the combat art of Savate. Literally translated to mean “old boot,” Savate developed through necessity. In the early 1800s, violent street gangs looking for trouble ruled the Parisian underground scene. Their prey was the aristocratic class who, to protect themselves, began taking self-defense classes. Over the years this training evolved into modern Savate – an exacting combat sport, and also the official hand-to-hand assault system of the French RAID police.

On their mission to uncover Savate’s distinct style, Jason and Bill navigate the dockyards of Marseille, roam the grounds of a 14th-century castle, and even breach a secret police training site to practice and perfect the painfully efficient kicks and punches that comprise this elegant yet ruthless art of combat. Finally, one of our hosts will enter the ring to take on a Savate heavyweight champion. France

PANKRATION (August 24)

Hosts Jason Chambers and Bill Duff plunge into the cradle of civilization, Athens , Greece , to explore what some thing is the world’s original mixed martial art. Literally translated as “all powers,” Pankration is the ancient Greek art of hand-to-hand combat. Nearly four thousand years old and made famous by Spartans and ancient Olympians, Pankration has recently been revitalized as a modern sport. One that Jason and Bill will experience firsthand.

From back alley gyms to the oldest standing fortress in all of Greece, our hosts immerse themselves in the origins of wrestling, boxing, grappling and kickboxing and come to understand why Pankration has inspired art and literature and martial arts for centuries. At the end of their journey, one of them will face the ultimate test: a legal Pankration match with a World, European, and six-time national champion Pankration fighter - a true Human Weapon. Greece

KRAV MAGA (August 31)

Hosts Jason Chambers and Bill Duff travel to Israel to study one of the deadliest and most effective hand-to-hand combat systems in the world. Specifically designed for the Israeli Defense Forces in the 1940s, Krav Maga is a dirty, anything-goes fighting style that is used to disarm and destroy assailants carrying multiple weapons.

Our hosts journey to some of the most sacred religious locations in the world as they learn to escape deadly chokes, deflect weapons, and perfect ruthless counterattacks in their quest to become true human weapons. Never before have our hosts learned a martial art that is not only physically demanding, but also a combative necessity in this war-torn country. Their journey ends with a fight against an entire unit of elite-level Krav Maga professionals.

Krait 44 said:
I would bet that as more research comes in, the quote, "higher consciousness through harder contact," might not withstand the test of time; although, I personally believe that non compliant sparring is necessary to understand movement and spatial relations in martal arts. I am not sure you can reach the higher levels of any martial arts without laying your brain on the line. I guess, the question is..... can a martial artist achieve higher consciousness without contact?
 
........high level sparrring/fighting with bladed weapons. Ideally the only contact is my blade, your body....and exit!
(this came up on the blade sparring thread).

Otherwise i totally agree that what you practice has to work on someone that does not want it to, or else it means little. However, If you are willing to risk permanent brain injury or some form of early dementia to reach your goals, you better have been paid very highly for the priviledge or have no other options.
We all live in a spectrum. There will always be people with worse skill levels and always people who are better. Even "the best fighter" in the world has off days, so what are we aiming for? If the answer is "higher consciousness" , i personally would like it to continue growing into old age.

 
 

Aaarg C-Scurvy Dog, the chaos gods are indeed my friends!
Thanks to you also for pointing out who was fighting, it was sometimes hard to tell who was who, so it added alot to the experience to have you there

I am in wholehearted agreement that there is alot of bovine manure out there in the martial arts world, and very few teachers that can really walk the walk. However, i would  not be as quick to throw out ideas that have been passed down through the traditions we train just because you, or your teacher cannot make them work. You know that in the old days, this stuff really mattered and you gotta ask yourself why would a family or group pass down information that might get the next generation killed?  What was it there to train?
One of my teachers has a great story about when he was working in the mental health services and had to perform a takedown on a violent patient. As he is throwing and restraining the guy, he realises that he is doing a technique that HIS teacher had passed down to him as "part of our tradition but i don't know why, as it can't see it ever working".! As i remember it, he noticed that the foot placement, or the angle of entry was a little different from how he had learned it ,but that was all the adjustment that was needed to use the technique in real life. After this, his teacher changed the teaching manual to take his adjustments into consideration.
Sure, information can get watered down or distorted over the generations, but i think many concepts, like your example of trapping, are totally valid. The bigger questions for me would be, "why won't this work for me/my teacher"? , "what's missing"?, "how/when/why would this concept work"?
If a knife technique only works if the knife is held out front and frozen in space for a second, can i create that moment in my opponent and insert the technique by being in the right place at the right time? Perhaps, perhaps not, but it's worth investigating. 
My personal favourite is checking the knife hand. This will get your hand cut off 90% of the time, but you know, 10% of the time it is an absolute necessity, and can work very well IF you do it at the appropriate moment.
As for playing with people from other systems,my teacher Sonny Umpad (who by the way could walk the walk), said that the one that hits you is the one you don't see coming, so yes, cross train as much as possible, but at the same time, IMHO it's also good to spend some time looking at the ideas within the systems that you train seriously to see what might be useful.

Side note to CWS, and others. Thanks for aknowledging that i am indeed a "gal". For simplicity on the forum, without having to go into the whole him/her, he/she thing, i reckon i could be an honorary "guy" if thats ok with you...honestly i've been including myself in the "guys" group for years now...martial arts kinda does that, so i'm not taking offense here

I'll bring a pair of my plastic blades also. Sonny designed them so they look quite 'mean'! Silver coloured blade and brown handle. They don't solve the 'respect for blade' issue, but they won't draw blood or break your hand either.
...and for the kick/disarm guys...... i guess i'll just have to aim for the ankle bone or the achilles tendon instead !

Thanks CWS. I just checked too, and heart is "coeur"......my high school french is rather rusty!
Of course it would have something to do with running(!)...runner in french is "coureur" . i'm sure "courier" in english has the same root.

Some interesting stuff here...
Sting said....." the human mind is unable to register a blade as a threat".  i know he is talking in the context of a "heightened experience" event such at the gathering, but REALLY??  Surely this is the problem?! Your training has not prepared you adequately and now you are probably dead.
Obviously not seeing the blade AT ALL means you don't register it as a threat, but a live blade in the hand of an aggressor standing in front of you? if you don't act as though this is a threat, well i think you need some help before testing your "skills".

Next thing, If the fight always ends at a clinch with both parties holding blades, now they are probably both "dead"  or both severely "injured". it shows a mindset that has "killing" as it's only focus, or at least a lack of imagination as to what might be possible. it's a place to start, but surely there is more?
I was talking with a training partner who is very knowledgeable about boxing, who after retiring from the military still trains and spars all the time. He pointed out that 100 years ago or so, boxing was not a particulary subtle sport, with both parties hitting at eachother without much technique. over the decades an evolution happened with counter punching, footwork and evasion becoming more and more important.  He thinks that this progression will also happen in MMA, and FMA fights, and i hope he is right.
Everyone is concerned with "realism" in blade sparring/fighting, and IMHO this has to encompass a wide field of responses. Sting is quite derogatory about those "knife dancers" who never enter, and though i understand his point that there is skill in creating an opening and going for it, i also think that as a natural reaction, this is ok at a beginning level. if the aggressor is not committed to taking you out and cannot find an opening, maybe backing off is a fine end to the fight?
This is also why i like san86's idea of training both ends of the equation because they don't necessarily occur in the same interaction. Is it suitable as a format for the gathering? i don't know, and this leads me to a question...
If the gathering is a place to gain "higher consciousness through harder contact" then perhaps blade fighting is not suitable for this as it is probably better described as "higher consciousness through as little contact as possible"!!!?
Maestro Sonny repeated more often than not "just don't get hit". Please note that this can mean anything from not being there in the first place, to both backing away slowly, to inflicting non life threatening injury, to taking your opponent out ASAP. I take his words very seriously.
Understanding which of these responses is appropriate because of who is standing in front of you and the situation that you are in, all play into blade fighting BECAUSE they are lethal weapons, closer to guns perhaps than sticks.....so again, are we training to prevail, or to die?

Hi krait,
Many of us students of Sonny Umpad are here in the Bay Area, so if you want to flow with blades.....

i'm not sure whether referee-ing would solve the problem, it's just too subjective and remote from the experience. if one of the goals of sparring is to gain insight about your own skills and gaps, someone else telling you that you are now dead may not necessarily help.
we used to play a game where small squares of paper were safety-pinned to various parts of our t-shirts indicating key targets, heart, kidneys, neck etc. both players had paper targets and the game was to pull off an opponents target without losing any of your own. you had to engage to be able to pick off a target, but of course this put you in immediate danger of losing one of your own. we never tried it with long sleeves, to indicate arm cuts, but i bet this would add an interesting element to the game.
perhaps some form of this idea of 'protect and capture' could be added to the knife sparring as a test of relative skill?

This thread goes back to the "June 2007 Gathering" thread, and a comment by JDN on may 21st regarding the regularity with which blade sparring using training blades, usually turns into a "bloodbath" with both parties cut to ribbons.
i am personally continually irritated by blade sparring which involves the opponents, after a bit of dancing around, running at eachother into a clinch and stabbing eachother to death, with obvious complete disregard for their own safety.
standing in front of someone holding a live blade, knife, machete, katana, pinute, whatever, and i can tell you that my first impulse is not to run at them, taking a few cuts on the way in as i go for the strike/take down.
so my question is..how do you train in a respect for the blade, which holds true even when you are sparring with non-live blades?  chalking the blades has been mentioned which is great, and of course the shock knife.
any other thoughts?
the training method i learned from sonny has a built in escalation that keeps the idea of evasion uppermost whilst upping the ante on the competitive level of the flow. i think this a great way to keep aware of the unforgiving nature of the blade.
of course this can fly out of the window when the adrenalin raises, especially if you feel you are losing! but i have to say that the few occasions that i saw sonny start to lose his temper, it was because we were sparring as a group, getting sloppy and exchanging hits. the live blades would then come out and we would each have to flow with him. sometimes he would make us block with the blade held against the body whilst he struck and caused sparks from the steel to steel contact, the cold shower he called it. otherwise we would take turns with the aluminium or foam blades, and the first hit on the hand, or body we had to sit out.
i know this is a question with many aspects:- training empty hand against weapon, pure self defence, etc,  but i guess i am most interested in both opponents  armed and with some skill. i think this scenario has more subtle risk evaluation questions, and perhaps more tactical ones.
personally, getting away clean seems like a worthy goal. so how do you train it alongside the idea that you probably will not......?

hi guro crafty,
here is a clip of my teacher doing a few bagua applications:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=koYMr9ZJi8A . the clip labeled "gao style pre-heaven bagua" shows some of the circle walking body training. the "snake throw" clip is also nice.
i found the transition from bagua to eskrima quite straightforeward as there seem to be many commonalities, so i am not surprised that people have seen bagua in your movement from your fma/ silat background. there is a strong cross body co-ordination in the system, i.e left hand/arm with right foot/leg and vice versa aswell as other things like the toe in and toe out steps/kicks/sweeps.
in my system, the straight line forms which show the applications, also seem to have a strong weapons element even though they are done empty hand, and it was training with sonny that helped me understand them better.

i started training tai chi in 1986 in a freezing church hall in england. i got hooked when after standing in a posture with certain alignments for about 5 minutes, i started to sweat and my heart rate went up and i thought...i must investigate this more!
i still practice tai chi, but for the last 12 years my main practice has been bagua zhang, another of the so-called internal arts based on walking around in a circle. looks weird but really great body training for balance, flexibility and gaining total mobility of all the joints. it also stretches the tendons and twists the muscles, pumping more blood around the system whilst keeping the body aligned with gravity...i.e what it was originally designed for!
i am lucky that my teacher, luo de xiu, from taiwan teaches it as a true martial art., not just for health. i asked him once did he find it strange that something that was so healthy for you was also good for training to fight, and he said that to be a good fighter you needed good co-ordination and structure, the ability to issue power at will, hence balance and flexibility, agility -  mental and physical, a calm mind and a clear spirit...so what different?!!
anyway, as it turned out this training held me in good stead when my eskrima teacher, maestro sonny umpad, taught what he called the "moro warm up". very twisty stuff with high and low stances mostly done on the balls of the feet, no knees, but sometimes with the elbow almost touching the floor! sometimes the whole body balanced on the ball of one foot. it contains many of the same body alignments as i was familiar with and it's a great stretching series.
i start my class with them every week. very cool stuff.
i tell you, when you get over 30 the warrenty runs out, and then over 40 you gotta use it or lose it! so anything that keeps the system working, is good with me.

There's another french movie, with english subtitles, featuring a group of parkour practitioners who have to get the money together to save a young kid's life by getting him a heart transplant. i can't remember the name, but i think it has the guy who did the casino royale stunts in it. very cool stuff and a neat movie set in Paris.
'par cour' means 'by/using the heart ' in french. i think this is where the name comes from (?). as i understand it, many of the practitioners are from poorer, urban areas where there is high unemployment and it started as an underground youth movement. this movie starts with the group meeting before dawn to climb an appartment building to watch the sunrise from the roof, making their escape as the police show up...

if someone with training had been present at this event, and if it is true that group apathy can be counteracted by " calling out an individual" within the rest of the bystanders..... would it have been a good idea to enlist help to subdue the attacker as a group (strength in numbers), or not?
if this man was known to be a LEO and potentially armed, how does one decide whether to act alone or with others?

hi peregrine,
yeah, the more i train, the more footwork seems key....especially when evasion is crucial as is the case with bladed weapons.
Sonny was a hustle dancer, which i believe is mostly done holding the hand of your partner. there was a circuit of clubs in the Bay Area which held competitions, and Sonny and his friends would go from one to the next, to dance.  this sometimes turned interesting if the locals did not appreciate an outsider dancing with their women and winning the competition... but that's another story.
i think he developed his leading and drawing skills through dancing, as well as his ability to sell a feint, along with the obvious skills of being light on his feet and being able to spin to generate power. he would encourage those students that did not like to move very much to go salsa dancing.
also, the living room in which we trained had an eight pointed cross (like a compass), painted on his floor and we used this as a guide for much of our footwork. apparently this appeared after an evening when his ladyfriend, elena, taught him the cha cha....

hi karsk,
i agree with you, even the "best" fighter in the world has off days. isn't there a famous saying that goes something like -  the best fencer in france fears the worst fencer in france more than the second best fencer? anyway , it seems that in any interaction you are always playing the odds to a greater or lesser extent, and the best that you can do is to tip the balance in your favour as much as possible.
my teacher maestro umpad was a small man who weighed less than i do, and perhaps because of this he developed his subtlety of movement to such a degree that where he was and how fast he was moving was quite difficult to see. taller people who weighed 2, 3 times as much as him from all kinds of fighting backgrounds found him impossible to touch, even though we worked out in his, not very large, living room!
so back to the scenario in question...what i was thinking when i wrote my last reply was that 1) you don't know what skill your opponent has, but for sure they do not know what you have, so you may have the advantage of being underestimated. small changes in your own posture, weight shift ,body angle, movement should tell you if they have any training and you can act from that knowledge. 2) if they are running at you, scary but with no skill there are options because they are already commited with momentum so easier to read, hence you have the initiative in a way because you know how to get out of the way or counter.
of course if they are big, nasty and ferocious with a high level of skill, and suceed in freezing you, you are indeed screwed.

hi again,
reading the last set of replies made me want to throw something else out there.
the biggest question for me in any encounter is "what is my opponent going to do"? "when"? and "where"? if this remains uncertain, luck generally takes the place of skill, and blade sparring turns into 2 people bouncing around on the outside, occasionally darting into range and exchanging cuts before retreating or clinching, often with both still holding weapons... the chances of evading a cut and still doing what you need to do are greatly diminished, so is your ability to travel through the ranges.
the best option IMHO is to learn how to set your opponent up to gain the advantage. if you can force an error, great, but at least narrow the field of options they have.
this to me is perhaps the most important question to answer as it sets up the reason, and placement of all the others that happen later.
i would like to propose that "upping the intensity" during training,  as guro crafty has suggested, should include random entries by an opponent, and not only random "where", but random "when". from  low intensity with light contact and an opponent who also values their own health( and as such will not just run at you), to high intensity where your opponent is full-on with little care for their own well being.... and of course anything in between.
for me the random element is a crucial factor missing in a great deal of training.
looking foreward to your comments!

 

hi tom,
it's always difficult to describe dynamic movements, but in essence the body pendulum is a weight shift from front to back, or back to front leg without a step. obviously "dumping" weight during stepping is not a good idea as your opponent may be timing your movement, but learning how to syncopate upper and lower body motion by separating the stepping from the weight shift  can also work in more subtle ways. for instance, say we are both playing on the edge of the "bubble" to use guro crafty's term, and i start with my weight foreward. i mark your range, and every time i step, even if i have retreated and start to engage once more, i'm going to try and slide/shuffle my front foot a couple inches closer to your foot, whilst shifting my upper body towards the back a couple inches. to someone not paying attention it may seem we are where we started, but it's amazing what a small difference can do.  add a change in lead leg without changing your upper body and chamber your blade against your body, and it becomes quite tricky to read the range.
of course i have a picture in my head of what i'm trying to describe as i write this, but have no idea if it makes any sense. hopefully it is not complete gibberish.

thanks guro crafty for your description.
in our system, visayan corto kadena eskrima (vcke),  we think of medio range or 2nd range, as that where one person can cut the body of the opponent with a weapon, as opposed to 1st range where one can only reach the hand/arm, and 3rd range which is essentially grappling/dumog. i expect this is similar in other systems aswell.
for the last 10 or so years, sonny came to believe that all pre-set drills had the inherent flaw of causing 'freezing points' in the student. instead he taught everything in the context of a random flow. exercises could to be limited to the first 4 or 5 strikes, but after that it was completely without pattern.
i believe that 2nd range is no place to 'hang out', and happens as a brief interlude between entry and exit, or entry and takedown. however, with bladed weapons where evasion is a most necessary skill, exercises in this range provide a forum in which to 1) get comfortable seeing the blade at very close quarters, especially in the peripheral vision. 2) understand when, or even if,  to use the live hand. 3) understand the use of the body angle to evade without losing the range. 4) understand the timing necessary to exit clean after striking the oppponent.
in our system, this kind of flow may start off at an even and steady tempo, in a co-operative manner, but then can escalate, according to the skill of the players: speeding up and breaking the tempo. both players attempt to cut but not get cut in return, without retreating into 1st range........ yeah, you're right, not so easy!! but quite enlightening.

hi karsk,
i agree with you.
martial arts, and free sparring in particular are a very direct path to seeing yourself as you really are, and for understanding human nature in general. for instance, if you can predict your opponent, you can lead them. if you can lead them,  you can defeat them.
sun tze said "if he is superior in strength, evade him. if your opponent is prone to anger, irritate him. pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant".
obviously life is not all combat, but dealing with the world is an interactive process, and understanding people, in whatever situation, is a very useful skill to have.
 also....seems like buzwardo's insights in the 'training' thread fit in this thread also.
 passing on one's skills, martial or otherwise, to others is a great skill in itself.
 have high expectations and lead by example.