Kali - Silat - Muay Thai

[yomitche]

Not to pose a question that might seem too stupid, but...

As a current escrima student, looking to broaden my horizons and add to my empty hand skills (which will hopefully complement my stick skills), I'm considering two potential paths: silat or muay thai.  Because I have limited time and finances (who doesn't, right), I'm trying to narrow my focus to one only and am having trouble deciding.  The available instruction in both is outstanding, so that's not an issue, but because I don't have an extensive background in either, don't know which of the two would contribute the most to escrima.

I may, in fact, choose to spend time with both at some point, but can only afford to participate in one right now.

Do any of the readers of this forum have any input on which of the two would be most beneficial to a student of the filipino martial arts?  I'm really not asking for a popularity poll, but rather an honest response from people who have an informed opinion about both or either.

Thanks in advance!

[Kaju Dog]

Do either of the two teachers of the styles in question have any background in escrima.  Not that that would be a deciding factor, but would make for great discussion with the potential new teacher.  It helps when the teaching has a better understanding of what your personal goals are as well.  (JMO).

 

Both are great arts with there own attributes to your wants.  In a perfect world you could do both, but I would pick one to focus on for some time and look for the hidden (or not so hiden) ways to blend the new knowledge with your current skill sets.

Listen to your heart.  Your going to be spending some time within the new style.  It's gotta fit you comfortably. 

Good luck. Stay progressive...

[yomitche]

Yes, the Muay Thai instructor also teaches Kali, although I currently train in escrima with another group which is rather small, but has considerable "depth" within the community.  Furthermore, he is listed as a Dog Brothers instructor, which inclines me toward his curriculum.  He also teaches Silat, but interestingly, it is not his silat curriculum that I have really considered too much.  Nonetheless, yes, he does teach stick skills - which is an interesting point to consider! 

I had not considered the relevance of their background in stickfighting before you mentioned it here.  Thank you!

The silat instructor I am considering pursuing instruction with is one of the top Bukti Negara members in the country.  He has a background with the same escrima group I train with, but had limited time with our group several years ago.  For whatever reason, he chose to concentrate on silat and seemingly devoted his life to it.

In short, both are very qualified instructors and good people.  Both offer legitimate instruction.  The question I have is which of the two arts would complement my stick fighting training the most? 

I have begun to compete in stickfighting tournaments and would really like to start attending the Dog Brothers gatherings, so I am looking forward to training in arts that lend themselves to actual fighting in addition to their artistic and creative value.  I have respect for a wide range of arts (so I'm not trying to diss anyone), but am specifically seeking to complement my fighting skills both "competitively" in tournaments with limited or full protective equipment and contact as well as being prepared for "real world" possibilities.

Thanks a lot for resonding!

[Howling Dog]

Woof Yomitche, I think C -Kaju dog says something important......

Listen to your heart.  Your going to be spending some time within the new style.  It's gotta fit you comfortably. 

If it were me I would choose the one that fits me best FIRST, then gravitate to the other as time and everything else allows.

You mention that the escrima inst. is listed as a Dog Brother inst. so your probably aware of the combining of the Krabi Krabong that mixes well within the Dog brothers system.

Hopefully you are practicing some of the Krabi stuff...which may lend to a quicker adaptation to the Muay thai.......

I personally love the stick and kick material, but, getting good at it with speed and ranges...esp in context to real fight conditions like in the gathering of the pack takes some real practice and training.
Though if the time and effort is put into it....my opinon is that fighter is a REAL force to be reckoned with (IMHO)
Hope my ramble helps........
                                                       C-Howling Dog

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[Crafty_Dog]

Excellent comments already.    Either should be good for you, especially so given your description of the teachers in question.

I would ask how much sparring/fighting experience you have and how much you want to have.   Bukti Negara and Serak have had an important and lasting influence on me, so it is with total respect that I say that the training I had there was rather devoid of testing.  This is understandable given the damage that many of the techniques intend, but I tend to want to have aired things out a bit before assuming that I can apply them during a real time real world situation.  If you are willing to work this out on your own, great.  If not, AND you lack hard sparring/fighting experience on your own, that is a different dynamic.

[yomitche]

Thanks for weighing in, Crafty.

I guess that the amount of fight experience I have is relative - in relationship to some of the others here, I am a neophyte.  Nonetheless, I am growing as an artist and testing my skills in different competitive venues when the opportunity exists (either in actual formal competitive "events" or informal sparring matches with training partners).  That said though, as a developing fighter/artist, I can appreciate that my ability to develop fighting technique from the practice of arts that do not regularly test free-fighting skills may not lead me to be the best fighter that I can be.

I especially appreciate the need to work things out to make sure they work for me.  The fact that your experience with Bukti Negara, for example, suggests that the training was rather devoid of testing confirms my impressions about this "cluster" of arts, in general.  I have the greatest respect for all martial artists, and am therefore not trying to disrespect anyone.  Rather, I am trying to find the best fit for me that is informed by the experiences of others.

I've decided to concentrate on the Muay Thai skills for now and continue to incoroprate some grappling, because these seem to be the best fit for me right now.  I think C-Kaju dog's comment about training with those who have an escrima background is very insightful, and doing so will do the most to complement both my empty handed as well as weapon fighting skills.

The key for me, right now at least, is to develop the most effective fighting skill sets that address various ranges, and I think that the "stick and kick" is kinda the way for me to go right now.  Thanks a lot for the input!  It is invaluable to me right now.

[Crafty_Dog]

When I judged at UFC 10, Big John McCarthy told me that there had been a silat fighter in an unaired fight in UFC 2.  In the way of things his promise to send me the footage never manisfested, but oddly enough yesterday this came across my transom 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRbXRq2wgHk

[Rarick]

Remco- I remember him, wimp.  There were a couple of times he got pinned for a ground and pound- he immediately tapped out.  He was looking for real time sparring for his judo rather than really fighting.

Good avoidance of the submission by the silat fighter tho'

[Crafty_Dog]

I thought so too, particularly in the context of that period of the UFC. 

Too bad we didn't get to see more of his standing striking/casahing game.

[Crafty_Dog]

Recently I had an opportunity to begin training in the Piper knife system of South Africa.  Very interesting and quite distinct in many regards!  I post here in this thread because of the apparent silat influence in the system.  Apparently one of the major strands of influence comes from Indonesian fishermen (who used their knives cutting fish quite a lot).  That said, the movement of the system is quite , , , African.

Anyway, the system is very interesting and I will be continuing training in it.

More as this story develops , , ,