Author Topic: silly question  (Read 3531 times)

Greenman

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silly question
« on: April 04, 2005, 06:16:36 PM »
I'm relatively new to FMA/stick arts etc.  Every MA instructor I've ever had (TKD, Karate etc.) emphasized the need for a "kiap" or power shout when striking....Is this common in escrima/FMA?  I read in Mark Wiley's great book on Kalis Ilustrisimo that "the face should be expressionless" which makes sense, (you shouldn't telegraph emotions/grit the teeth etc).  In much of the footage I've seen of these arts being practiced, the players seem silent with the exception of heavy breathing and natural grunts of pain when stricken.  I know it might be a weird "newbie" question, but @ 6'3" and 275lbs. I feel that a shout or yell might serve to drive home a psychological point against an opponent in a real or controlled confrontation.  Can somebody weigh in on this and help clear up this mystery?
the way OUT is THROUGH

bart

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Kiap
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 12:32:57 PM »
Hey There,

A shout might help. I certainly wouldn't rule it out during a fight. But imagine trying to do a shout for each strike in a 3 or 4 point combo that you're doing in less than a second. A kiap might actually detract during that. A lot of eskrima is done in a boxing method. Boxers might trash talk, growl, or make a noise here or there, but they generally don't kiap because it generally doesn't add much to what they do. I'd say give it a shot during sparring and then see if it works for you. I think it's going to have to go through some adjustment though before it will fit into your stick fighting.
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Ryno

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noise
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2005, 01:39:30 PM »
Most  FMA stylists tend not to yell, but I've always found the concept of shouting an odd concept in a fight anyway.  In boxing, the quickest way to get knocked out is to leave your mouth open.  If you get hit on the jaw at with your mouth wide open, it often causes dislocation and/or knockout.  If ever I'm sparring, or look like I might have to defend myself, the first thing I do is to shut my yapper, and get my chin down.  

It has always surprised me when I've seen karate practicioners attacking people with their mouths wide open, yelling, and their chins up.   This just goes against everything that a boxer is taught.  FMA stylists often tend to have similar attitudes about combat as boxers.  Techniques are not used unless they are effective, and fighters tend to have a no-nonsense attitude about an engagement.   Taking this into account, I'd guess that many FMA stylists would wonder exactly what the purpose of a kiap is, and how it will help them in a stickfight where the exchanges are very rapid multiple strike flurries.  

Unlike some other systems, most FMA fighters never count on the one strike dramatic kill that some martial artists seem to think will happen.  This seems to be where some systems insert their spirit yell of whatever variety.  But the truth is that it's darn difficult to actually drop an opponent with one shot, whether you are yelling or not. The Dogbrothers are perfect examples of this.  I remember when they were just getting going, a lot of people thought that they'd end up killing each other with one deadly blow.  After all, they were well trained martial artists who were intending to go all out.  Well, they pretty much proved that the human body can take a lot of punishment, even when subjected to the "kill shots" that some people thought would finish someone.  The fact of the matter is that you can often fight your way through these shots, whether someone is yelling or not.  And chances are that once you do fight your way through, the person who was yelling will just be a bit more out of breath.

I tend to make some noise out of habit, usually when I'm throwing combination strikes, but I do so between gritted teeth.  It's definitely not dramatic yelling sounds, but usually grunts or little exclamations such as "Bang", for which there's no real reason for doing.  It's just more satisfying when I whack someone and have a little sound effect help entertain myself.  :wink:
Ryan Greene

Greenman

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silly question
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2005, 05:44:08 PM »
You guys both made great points, thank you.  It never really seemed necessary to yell when stickfighting, maybe because I'm more focused on not getting hit.  I just wondered what seasoned players had to say....great input, thanks for your time.
the way OUT is THROUGH

rharbers

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silly question
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 08:20:07 AM »
In Kenjutsu, the purpose of a kiai is to momentarily distract your opponent.  You want to make him freeze mentally so you can make your strike.  You want to make his mind stop because the mind that does not stop is called the immovable mind.  A fraction of a second can mean the difference between life and death.  I am speaking only of Japanese Swordsmanship.
An ordinary man thinks only on the surface.

Ronald R. Harbers

Guard Dog

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silly question
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 09:11:49 AM »
Quote
I feel that a shout or yell might serve to drive home a psychological point against an opponent in a real or controlled confrontation.


My roots are in Muay Thai and to this day I always yell/exhale when doing my kicks and knees when fighting RCSF.


Gruhn
Ryan “Guard Dog” Gruhn
Guro / DBMAA Business Director
Dog Brothers Martial Arts Association
"Smuggling Concepts Across the Frontiers of Style”
ryan@dogbrothers.com | www.dogbrothers.com