Dog Brothers Public Forum

"No one in their right mind thinks that you can dominate modern MMA with one style alone, be it wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, White Crane Kung Fu, etc. 

What is strange to me in this day and age where so much information is available, is that anyone still holds on to the idea that when a fighter is on top, he is “wrestling”; when a fighter is on the bottom, he is “doing BJJ”.  While some BJJ fighters find success off their back, few would prefer to be there.  Most would much prefer to be here:

Ronaldo “Jacare” Souza (Multiple time BJJ World Champ) vs. Bill Vuccik (wrestler)


Sometimes achieving a position like this on a highly skilled wrestler is possible; other times, it’s very difficult. 

It is vital not to overlook the fact that every example you cited of a “wrestler” defeating a BJJ stylist HAS A HIGH RANKING IN BJJ THEMSELVES.  They didn’t learn a few submission defenses here and there – they devoted enough time and training to a style they realized was invaluable; important enough to gain a high rank and continue to progress in it.  Some of them even (gsp) train in a gi!  (Sean Sherk, Josh Koscheck, GSP)

A significant reason Sean Sherk (BJJ brown belt) was able to defeat Hermes Franca (BJJ Black belt) was because his half guard passing was HIGHLY developed.  He put on a half-guard passing clinic against Franca.  Passing the half guard (especially in the sophisticated and varied manner that he did) is not a wrestling skill, it is a BJJ skill.  In addition, 12 of Sherk’s 31 MMA victories have come via submission, with a variety of techniques such as RNC’s, Americanas (shoulder locks), Arm Triangles, Neck Cranks, etc.  None of which he learned in wrestling, they all came from his years of training with Greg Nelson (BJJ Black Belt) and Erik Paulson (BJJ Black Belt, Shooto Champion)

Sean (the wrestler) even goes for submissions from his back when the opportunity presents itself.

Sean Sherk Vs Matt Hughes: (looks suspiciously BJJ-ish to me)




The first time they fought, Matt Hughes (wrestler) defeated GSP with a spinning armlock counter to a kimura attempt.  A BJJ move.

The third time they fought, GSP (wrestler? His fight team is Brazian Top Team Canada, and he lists BJJ as his style) defeated Matt Hughes with a spinning armlock from side control.  BJJ move.

A few off the top of my head (and these aren’t including the lightweight divisions and smaller events where BJJ World champs have been tearing up the scene recently)

o   Anderson Silva (BJJ Black Belt) def. Dan Henderson (Olympic Wrestler) via RNC
o   Roger Gracie (BJJ BB) def. Ron Waterman (wrestler) via straight armlock from the guard
o   Rodrigo “Minotauro” Noguierra def. Mark Coleman (USA Team Wrestler) via Triangle/Armlock from the guard
o   Paulo Filho (BJJ BB) def. Chael Sonnen (Oregon State wrestler) via armlock from the guard



BJ Penn (BJJ BB) def. Matt Hughes (wrestler) via RNC


It’s really a pointless argument.  For every wrestler beating a BJJ Black belt, you can find a BJJ black belt beating a wrestler.  And really, by saying that BJJ is overrated because good wrestlers can find success against it….you are UNDER-valuing wrestling.  Wrestling is a fantastic grappling style, which fills many of the holes in BJJ, and vice versa.  To make it a style vs. style debate is very 1993."

If you want to be a high school state champ in the state of Ohio you better start wrestling at about 5 years of age. Thats just to become a HIGH SCHOOL STATE CHAMP.  Let alone college level.

Multiple DBMA and guest instructors, all covering some topic relavant to DBMA?

i'm of the feeling you guys don't have kids, maybe you do. my feeling of this clip is that the kids are being exploited because its kids doing pro stlyle mma; it did not have the feeling of a legit competition.

8 year olds in the cage fighting in a professional-like atmosphere does not feel ''right'' with me.

The recent HBO series 24/7 focused on the upcoming Hatton/Mayweather boxing match had a humorous segment when Ricky Hatton was parodying Mayweather's "tippy tappy" focus mitt training. Hatton just didn't think it was very practical because the opponent/mitt holder was standing squared up to Mayweather. However, as many here know - working in that range using "hubad" like training works on many other things besides power, it is useful as long as it isn't the ONLY thing you do. For example, how is the reactionary response time honed when Mayweather is suddenly faced with an opponent who must move to get into position and has a wider striking arc?

Whether or not one likes Mayweather's personality or even if he loses to Hatton - one can't deny those drill's effectiveness for a fighter like Mayweather who also uses simultaneous block/strikes ala lots of Silat/FMA systems. So far he's won numerous titles and remained undefeated.

I like Hatton myself just because of his tenacity - he reminds me of Pacquaio, and this may be a very exciting bout between a clash of styles.

What can I say, I'am a pot stirrer.   Also very curious .
Gruhn did you/do you?    Accept Sheep dogs offer to fight you Shock knife vs. stick?
A very generous offer, I might add.
                                                                   TG